Troll models in 6.2.

[Blufossa]

Don't care for trolls anyways, but I do love the hairdos you posted.

Wish everyone would get attention for new hairstyles for 6.2 or 6.3.

Mostly waiting for them to fix Worgen. Freaking broken half-assed models we have now. Miss the alpha ones!

[Oggudrai]

Yet Goblins and Worgen continue to be completely ignored despite so many problems.

I sincerely hope that the Worgen and Goblin revamps won't be too far into the future, especially considering the Female worgen...

But if I find out that they've been taking resources away from the current roster of models to start on those I'd be a tad miffed.

Like Ramz said, the Worgen and Goblins were in far less need of a revamp. They "only" decided to remake 10 of the pre-cata races and even that turned out to be too much at once, seeing as how the Night elf male, and the Troll male especially (which is partly the focus of this thread) couldn't be brought up to par with the completed models before the deadline...

And then its taken them 7 subsequent months to implement two band-aid fixes to the troll male with many, many more major issues remain unaddressed

I'm sorry but looking at how long it's taking them to get this revamp right, I'd say you should be happy that they're waiting with the Worgen and Goblins now that they've got their hands full instead of winding up with unfinished products.

Here's hoping we'll see something about the Worgen and Goblin model revamps soon after they're done with the current generation of revamped models

[snuzzle]

While I'm glad to see that they've (finally!) adjusted the troll female run, her cast still needs work too. I loathe that little "push" she does when casting spells now, like she's got this heavy weight on her chest and she's trying to shove it off. It's no longer smooth transition from windup to cast. It feels more disjointed.

Casting, Old vs New, respectively:



Running, Live vs PTR, respectively:

[Kanadei]

Came here looking for the male running animation in the new model to be fixed (currently looks like you are legit bouncing every step, weird-as-f). No mention of it.

Sadness.

[kamil84]

OMG new troll models? to bad I don't give a shit about trolls.

[Ramz]

@ Hey Snuzzle!

I didn't mentioned this animation, becuase I didn't even considered it was an issue. I actually adore the change to casting animation, it gives so much power and force to it. This is why when race-changing my belf to troll I decided to go female then male. Previous one, as much as I liked troll females looked dull ;f I was hopig for new character models to improve troll female casting and melee animation, so they could feel more powerful and more troll in nature. Too bad they didn't touched melee :<

So I don't see strugle you're describing, I see her unleashing her power in "Take THAT!" manner. Which I love.

Hey I a have a question, how do you make gifs? I wanted to capture hand bug.
With troll female animation I don't think that video or gif is showing the change, it's how it feels once you begin to run with her. Small tweak but makes a huge difference. Besides the biggest change is from side view I think. There is something that got smoothed in her motion.

Came here looking for the male running animation in the new model to be fixed (currently looks like you are legit bouncing every step, weird-as-f). No mention of it.

Sadness.

I think it's a very good animation it has proper speed, and weight to it. Previous vanilla one was slow and goofy. Now the troll male is fast, agile and swift. I actually love this animation about him the most. But as a animation itself it very decent. Previously models were sliding forward, there has to be a slight bounce to make the run feel authentinc as a run animation. Though I agree that with speed buff it is becoming a bit too bouncy, but with normal speed, - for me at least- it's very enjoyable animation, and it feels very troll alike to me

This is why I didn't mentioned those two animations - many people are on fence with it. Some love it, some dislikes it. I know for sure that with troll female - from my obsevations many liked the change( I checked forums, and comments below troll female model videos). With troll male runing animation it was 50/50, but recently many people got used to it already, from what I gathered. I think the only change that this animation requires is the facial expression.

OMG new troll models? to bad I don't give a shit about trolls.

Then why coming here in the first place? But thanks for view and comment anyway.

[Oggudrai]

While I'm glad to see that they've (finally!) adjusted the troll female run, her cast still needs work too. I loathe that little "push" she does when casting spells now, like she's got this heavy weight on her chest and she's trying to shove it off. It's no longer smooth transition from windup to cast. It feels more disjointed.

Casting, Old vs New, respectively:

Now that I'm looking at it I agree... Besides looking iffy in on itself, the new animation just entirely stops looking like the old one almost at all when she casts.

Another one of those unnecessarilly changed aspects that I'm hoping they'll change back to something more faithful, now that they've gone as far as to start changing run animations.

Have to admit that I'm curious as to your thoughts regarding the male

[Deleted]

> Trollverine

i lolled.

now what a great post this is , quality you dont see on mmo champ each month.

looking forward to more model changes

[Oggudrai]

OMG new troll models? to bad I don't give a shit about trolls.

Thanks for the bump ;D

[Ramz]

> Trollverine

i lolled.

now what a great post this is , quality you dont see on mmo champ each month.

looking forward to more model changes

Aww thank you!

And ye I had to make a pop-culture refference So we have B'yonce and Trollverine xD

Have to admit that I'm curious as to your thoughts regarding the male

Oh right, it would be great to hear your opinion on Troll male Snuzzle, I always respected your opinions and work on new character models. And both troll and night elf males are the most unfinished ones. Yet there are close to no tweaks for them.

But I'm not nelf player so I can't make such a in-depth comment on them, aside from bad overall model quality.


And remember people to give feedback in game and through Twitter if have an option. I'd be also grateful is this thread was copied/ mentioned on US forums to spread attention.

[Oggudrai]

I think it's a very good animation it has proper speed, and weight to it. Previous vanilla one was slow and goofy. No,w the troll male is is fast, agile and swift. I actually love this animation about him the most. But as a animation itself it very decent. Previously models were sliding forward, there has to be a slight bounce to make the run feel authentinc as a run animation. Though I agree that with speed buff it is becoming a bit too bouncy, but with normal speed, - for me at least- it's very enjoyable animation, and it feels very troll alike to me

This is why I didn't mentioned those two animations - many people are on fence with it. Some love it, some dislikes it. I know for sure that with troll female - from my obsevations many liked the change( I checked forums, and comments below troll female model videos). With troll male runing animation it was 50/50, but recently many people got used to it already, from what I gathered. I think the only change that this animation requires is the facial expression.

I wouldn't go as far as to call the old one goofy, if you were going to see either of them as goofy I think the new one comes closer. But despite how much I loved that original run I have to agree, whenever I swap back to from new to old it does feel a bit too restrained, especially the arm movement though it might be a bit much now, feels like they have too little motion in the old model.

So I'm definitely amongst those that were opposed to it in the beginning, then got used to it... I actually like it a tad more when sped up than in the normal speed. About 15% speed bonus, like on my rogue; just fast enough to enhance that agile swiftness but not so fast as to look ridiculous.

I also agree about the expression they carry when running.

More than the run I really wish they'd change the new walking animation to become more similar to the old, I think that's pretty much a concensus among troll players by now... at least the vocal ones. One thing is how their arms move in a way that deviates too much from the old, but another is that lower jaw movement they have with every step - that constant gabbing motion. I mean... Really? Who walks like that? It looks ridiculous and it only seems like it tries to enhance the silliness of the new model.

Trolls can offer some comic relief but don't change a perfectly good walk animation to display that. As the saying goes, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[Ramz]

I wouldn't go as far as to call the old one goofy, if you were going to see either of them as goofy I think the new one comes closer. But despite how much I loved that original run I have to agree, whenever I swap back to from new to old it does feel a bit too restrained, especially the arm movement though it might be a bit much now, feels like they have too little motion in the old model.

So I'm definitely amongst those that were opposed to it in the beginning, then got used to it... I actually like it a tad more when sped up than in the normal speed. About 15% speed bonus, like on my rogue; just fast enough to enhance that agile swiftness but not so fast as to look ridiculous.

It's a struggle to ask for a change when there is a chance that the run might be completely wrecked by devs. Devs tend to go extreme and destroy something that had potential, I could notice in OP, to by tiny bit tone down the bounce, but I personally was never bothered by it. I grown quickly to change, and I like the speed, and weight to it, and I think it's much more troll in nature run, than the one that was before, and which was apparently shared later with belf male model (it was similar I mean).

But with walking animation, I barely saw people that are ok with it. Majority want it back. This is why I mentioned it.

I think the new arm movement is far more realistic, and I am looking forward to make machinimas with troll males, if they will improve things in OP that I meantioned before. Like texture quality, eyes, and fix to hair, and so on.

[snuzzle]

@ Hey Snuzzle!

I didn't mentioned this animation, becuase I didn't even considered it was an issue. I actually adore the change to casting animation, it gives so much power and force to it. This is why when race-changing my belf to troll I decided to go female then male. Previous one, as much as I liked troll females looked dull ;f I was hopig for new character models to improve troll female casting and melee animation, so they could feel more powerful and more troll in nature. Too bad they didn't touched melee :<

So I don't see strugle you're describing, I see her unleashing her power in "Take THAT!" manner. Which I love.

Hey I a have a question, how do you make gifs? I wanted to capture hand bug.

I use GifCam, which is a free software, and then I upload them to imgur.

The main problem I have with the animation, aside form the fact that it makes the cycle of cast-unload-cast-unload a lot less smooth, is that it makes her feel weak BECAUSE she's having to heft out the strong spell. A strong caster should be able to make that look more effortless. She looks like she's struggling to cast a simple Wrath.

- - - Updated - - -

Have to admit that I'm curious as to your thoughts regarding the male

I haven't seriously played a male troll in years, so I cannot really speak with confidence regarding the tweak to his casting animation. But his run is atrocious. I dislike the fact that none of the faces really smile (my baby troll male druid had the impish looking face before the change, now he's scowling). I had written a bunch on them on the beta forums, but...

[Deleted]

They were changed in the original WoD beta for some reason. They've been like that since the models were released into the live game.

I think they did this to try and mimick the old model more, which never had as big irises as the one in the early beta. But what they did instead was make the irises even smaller than they were originally. From a distance or at least, without having to zoom in so far the model goes transparent, I could tell that there was colour in their eyes in the original model.

With the new I can't, they look mostly black... Which lends to a more cartoonish, almost... well... stoned look that's much harder to take seriously.

Perhaps I should be more specific there and add information that unique eye colours disappeard from WoD beta, only NPCs in live version managed to keep until 6.1 unique eye colours.

Ohh ! Okay. I think I was confused because my main exposure to new troll models was :
-Beta screenshots
-NPCs
-My rogue... who is constantly wearing goggles.
Also it seems I hardly ever see this complaint come up compared to the ever important debate on Blood Elf T&A and such... Of course !

I don't mind the new bouncy run on the male trolls, but true enough it's not faithful to the original. It seems other bouncy runs have been toned down in recent patches, will troll males be next ? Or does nobody care ? Wait no don't answer this

And haha man what's with the female troll casting on her right hand side now ? I don't mind, but what a random unnecessary change.

[Oggudrai]

I haven't seriously played a male troll in years, so I cannot really speak with confidence regarding the tweak to his casting animation. But his run is atrocious. I dislike the fact that none of the faces really smile (my baby troll male druid had the impish looking face before the change, now he's scowling). I had written a bunch on them on the beta forums, but...

... But the feedback you gave wasn't really taken into account? I can understand why you might feel disheartened to put much effort into doing it again. It's a shame though, considering I still got a feeling the developers read the US forums more than the EU ones.

Come to think of it, I do recall some troll faces seeming more neutral and less grouchy or dopey (though the latter might be attributted to their black cartoon-eyes), I changed the faces of my two main troll toons honestly, not because they were all -that- different to the old (though I guess they kinda were) but another face looked a lot more like how I'd always envisioned them in my mind so for me that wasn't really an issue.

I feel they suffered the least regarding the unfaithful transitions of old-to-new regarding the faces, but they're not excempt from it either I suppose, now that you mention it.

But all in all to get you up to speed regarding tweaks: There's essentially been none, not in terms of what the male model needs most. Two band-aid fixes that, while appreciated, just isn't enough.

- - - Updated - - -

Also it seems I hardly ever see this complaint come up compared to the ever important debate on Blood Elf T&A and such... Of course !

*sigh* Indeed... the swarm of such topics kind of drowned out most of the feedback for any of the other models on Blizzard's own forums I feel.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely feel Blood Elf players deserve to have their concerns addressed, but it's starting to make me worry that the artists' priorities will be shifting away from the models that need it most and essentially becoming more of a popularity contest...

[Ramz]

I use GifCam, which is a free software, and then I upload them to imgur.

Thanks a lot! Will use it then!

The main problem I have with the animation, aside form the fact that it makes the cycle of cast-unload-cast-unload a lot less smooth, is that it makes her feel weak BECAUSE she's having to heft out the strong spell. A strong caster should be able to make that look more effortless. She looks like she's struggling to cast a simple Wrath.

I honestly don't think it's a struggle at all. To me it looks like effective /fancy way to throw a powerful spell, like kamehameha on troll males, but in troll malle case they now squat and pulls themselves behind which looks uncomfortable and rather weak.

I just don't like the definition of effortless spell, if we would follow it then most of the casting animations would look like waving a hand in nonchalant way. And at least most of the models are showing that it does take effort to cast a spell.

But arguing opinions is pointless. We all interpret things differently.

I haven't seriously played a male troll in years, so I cannot really speak with confidence regarding the tweak to his casting animation. But his run is atrocious. I dislike the fact that none of the faces really smile (my baby troll male druid had the impish looking face before the change, now he's scowling). I had written a bunch on them on the beta forums, but...

I wouldn't call it artrocius, artrocius was orc female or nelf male in 6.0, but troll male has proper weight and speed to it. Trolls aren't elves they're heavy tall jungle dudes. And I'm glad it's expressed in this animation, I kinda wish it was also enhance on their female counterpart. Besides when we jog we also bounce when we run. This is why I don't see it as an issue. If anything it's the previous animation that felt unnatural - but mostly becuase of how he moved his arms.

Anyway thanks for feedback, and attention, even if I disagree with your view I respect your opinion and I think you did a great job regarding wow character models.

Ohh ! Okay. I think I was confused because my main exposure to new troll models was :
-Beta screenshots
-NPCs
-My rogue... who is constantly wearing goggles.
Also it seems I hardly ever see this complaint come up compared to the ever important debate on Blood Elf T&A and such... Of course !

*sigh* that's the main problem, as much as I don't deny that thier models also need some tweaks, I dislike the fact elven players tend to steal the spotlight from other races models.

And haha man what's with the female troll casting on her right hand side now ? I don't mind, but what a random unnecessary change.

I am owner of 3 troll females since TBC, and as much as I liked troll female on concept, I really disliked some of thier animations becuase they were not as cool as troll males. But casting was good enough on priestess, melee were underwhelming aside from dual-wield which is okayish. So I was thrilled to see that animation was changed to look more powerful, and more cool.


All in all we still need more attention and more people to tweet devs and spread attention, each post, each bump, each passionate player that feels he or she can help with fixing the models is a pure gold.

[Oggudrai]

Just want to put up some screenshots to put the eyecolour issue a bit into perspective (though you have to look close)



^ On both the old and new models this face has, at about, the most vibrant eyecolour... I don't know about othes but In regards to this face I feel the old one's eyecolour is more noticeable



^ And this face, both old and new also, had the least noticeable eyecolour... But even considering the original didn't have much, I feel I can still make out more in the old than I can in the new face

For contrast, here's how far you have to zoom in to see the eyecolour on the new model:



Conclusion: In truth, the old model didn't have hugely visible irises either. I indeed think they tried to make them closer to this... but they took it too far, even if only slightly they're less noticeable than before.

And honestly, I don't think any troll player would complain about getting more noticeable eyecolours akin to the artcraft or early beta, compared to the original. Like the addition of fangs, it is one of those changes that I think could (arguably) be universally considered an improvement over the old.

[Deleted]

I loved the female trolls from the very first moment I saw them, but I despised the running animation so much I couldn't make myself to play as one. I'm so glad the issue is now solved!

[Ramz]

Thanks Ogg for posting such a great screenshots! I'll implement them in OP.

I loved the female trolls from the very first moment I saw them, but I despised the running animation so much I couldn't make myself to play as one. I'm so glad the issue is now solved!

Since Vanilla? Or since Artraft where their new models have been revealed? :P
Just asking out of curiosity.

[Deleted]

The main problem with the eyes is that the pupils look too dilated and don't leave enough room for the iris color to shine. Dilated pupils probably fits trolls though...

^ And this face, both old and new also, had the least noticeable eyecolour... But even considering the original didn't have much, I feel I can still make out more in the old than I can in the new face.

This is the face that lost its fun, youthful look... Dude just looks grumpy now. And stoned.

I wish I could help with the visibility but I'm also an EU player !