[Megathread] Nintendo Switch

[Lahis]

If you are overleveling that much, you are still grinding.

If you just play the game at the pace intended, you are not overleveled in Sword and Shield. The Exp All in XY and ORAS was not balanced correctly, but it is significantly better in SwSh. It still isn't perfect, but most people who casually played were actually under leveled for Leon.

This is more a user problem than a programming problem now. People who played older games were used to grinding in the game. So they still do some grinding which is why the overlevel. But because they grind so much less, they say "I didn't grind."

And this is remake of Diamond and Pearl. Game whose XP curve isn't balanced for universal EXP Share.

You will be throwing lvl 85 Pokémon against Cynthia's lvl 66 Garchomp.

[Poppincaps]

Pokemon was always easy. Removing an option that makes an easy game.... still easy wouldn't be high on my complaint list. It's literally the same thing Persona, Tales and Final Fantasy all did. You used to have to use your characters in those games to gain xp, now they all do regardless of in active party. I didn't see some massive stink raised about this, because nobody cared. Just seems like Pokemon fans being obnoxious for the sake of it.

Once again, there are varying degrees of easy. This also isn't my biggest issue with Pokemon Sw/Sh, but it's one of the ones that I find the most baffling since it seemingly brings no benefit. Those are the worst changes because then it just feels like a big middle finger to the players who care about it.

I'm not gonna talk about Tales and Final Fantasy because I'm not as experienced in those series, but in Persona you don't get enough exp to level up all of your party members without grinding. I'm actually playing through Persona 4 Golden right now that doesn't have the exp share. Teddie, Yosuke, and Kanji are all super underleveled whereas my main party is basically on par with the content. If I constantly shuffled them out, then either all my characters would be underleveled or I'd have to grind a shit ton. As a result, I haven't used those three characters in ages because they're so underleveled. In Persona 5, I was able to switch my characters out depending on the Palace and I used all of the characters as a result. That's a marked improvement. Hence, why no one complains about it. In Pokemon you already get enough exp to maintain a party of 6 Pokemon, so removing the exp share toggle just makes you overleveled. If we really want to compare Persona and Pokemon, your demons don't have exp share, although leveling the same demons for the whole game is not intended and is pretty untenable.

I feel like you're making false equivalences and failing to understand the major design differences between the two games. Just because they're all turn based does not mean that they should all work the same.

[Darththeo]

And this is remake of Diamond and Pearl. Game whose XP curve isn't balanced for universal EXP Share.

You will be throwing lvl 85 Pokémon against Cynthia's lvl 66 Garchomp.

Until we actually play the game, you do not know that. You are assuming like you always have on it.

Worse case scenario is the only option you accept.

[Tech614]

Once again, there are varying degrees of easy. This also isn't my biggest issue with Pokemon Sw/Sh, but it's one of the ones that I find the most baffling since it seemingly brings no benefit. Those are the worst changes because then it just feels like a big middle finger to the players who care about it.

I'm not gonna talk about Tales and Final Fantasy because I'm not as experienced in those series, but in Persona you don't get enough exp to level up all of your party members without grinding. I'm actually playing through Persona 4 Golden right now that doesn't have the exp share. Teddie, Yosuke, and Kanji are all super underleveled whereas my main party is basically on par with the content. If I constantly shuffled them out, then either all my characters would be underleveled or I'd have to grind a shit ton. As a result, I haven't used those three characters in ages because they're so underleveled. In Persona 5, I was able to switch my characters out depending on the Palace and I used all of the characters as a result. That's a marked improvement. Hence, why no one complains about it. In Pokemon you already get enough exp to maintain a party of 6 Pokemon, so removing the exp share toggle just makes you overleveled. If we really want to compare Persona and Pokemon, your demons don't have exp share, although leveling the same demons for the whole game is not intended and is pretty untenable.

I feel like you're making false equivalences and failing to understand the major design differences between the two games. Just because they're all turn based does not mean that they should all work the same.

Except that's not the way persona 4 xp works at all, you get exponentially more xp the more under level you are if you cycled in characters in Persona 4 Golden the main character only stays 2-5 levels(depending on spot in the game) ahead and everyone else stays on par for the current dungeons. Your other characters are useless because you never used them at all, if you did you would find leveling them up is a joke. It wasn't really a big deal at all, and didn't require grinding they just made the process way more simple in 5 so you don't have to worry about using characters equally anymore. Nobody complained "errrrmagod you made it easier" nobody cared. Only Pokemon fans seem to care. The rest of the gaming universe calls these QOL changes, only the Pokemon community seems to complain about trivial things.

[Darththeo]

I should make it clear that in Sun and Moon I toggled it on and off as appropriate. I didn't keep it off 100% of the time. I wasn't lying, I was talking about my personal experience with the game. I never had to grind in Sun and Moon and I toggled it on and off to keep myself around the same level of the trainers and gym leaders that I was fighting. If I had kept it on 100% of the time I absolutely would've been overleveled.

I played Sun and Moon with in on 100% of the time, I was not overlevel at all by the time I got to the Elite 4. The only playthroughs I had where I was overleveled were ones where I did grinding.

So either you grinded and are lying about it or you are mistaken. Take your pick.

What you are saying was 100% true in XY and ORAS, but was not true at all in SM. I have played XY with it off 100%, and without grinding, I was underleveled for nearly every fight, as they did not balance it at all. If you had it off, you didn't get enough XP without grinding. If you on, you were overleveled by several levels.

[Yunru]

Until we actually play the game, you do not know that. You are assuming like you always have on it.

Worse case scenario is the only option you accept.

Well only difference is that its made by support studio and not gamefreak, so it depends on how much influence gamefeak has on that studio.
However xp thing does exist:
https://www.polygon.com/22722803/pok...intendo-switch

RIP secret basses.

[Darththeo]

Well only difference is that its made by support studio and not gamefreak, so it depends on how much influence gamefeak has on that studio.
However xp thing does exist:
https://www.polygon.com/22722803/pok...intendo-switch

RIP secret basses.

I am not denying the XP share being a thing. I am denying you'll be grossly overlevel because of it.

Since Sun and Moon, if you are overleveled because of the XP share it is because you, not the XP share.
XY and ORAS were unbalanced when it came to the XP share system.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I've never understand what people hate about this. What is the big deal?

Killed any semblance of challenge.

The games are already braindead without it, not sure what it changes?

You wouldn't be saying that if you had played Pokemon games before gen 6.

so you enjoy spending 80% of the time grinding levels?

Oh look, this arguement. Again. Defenders of the mandatory EXP share push this bizzare narrative that the pre-EXP share games were a chore where you had to level grind everyone up just to have a chance. That isn't true. You just had to swap out your lead Pokemon from time to time but your whole team wasn't always overleveled so at least you did get KOed and have to put a little actual effort into your strategies.

I haven't played Pokemon in 2 gens and feel like this was always the case anyways.

Difficulty in pokemon? Where? What pokemon game am I missing here cause I played most prior to X/Y?

Gens 4 and 5 had notoriously difficult final stretches. BW1 was probably the most well balanced mainline game we ever got and was a challenge all the way through. Gen 3 wasn't super hard but it wasn't a cakewalk either.

don't act like old ones where some hard ass shit because no

They were hard lol

Was Pokemon ever a hard series of games?

Play BW1.

[Video Games]

Was Pokemon ever a hard series of games?

There are certainly difficult battles throughout the series, but them being easy doesn't mean they always have to be. I shouldn't have to play a romhack to have fun

[Poppincaps]

I played Sun and Moon with in on 100% of the time, I was not overlevel at all by the time I got to the Elite 4. The only playthroughs I had where I was overleveled were ones where I did grinding.

So either you grinded and are lying about it or you are mistaken. Take your pick.

What you are saying was 100% true in XY and ORAS, but was not true at all in SM. I have played XY with it off 100%, and without grinding, I was underleveled for nearly every fight, as they did not balance it at all. If you had it off, you didn't get enough XP without grinding. If you on, you were overleveled by several levels.

Maybe you're lying and you skipped a bunch of trainers? Maybe you're lying and you turned it off during Sun and Moon? Calling someone a liar is not a good way to have a productive conversation.

I have no reason to lie, I care a lot about the Pokemon games, but I really don't care whether you guys believe me enough to purposely lie about my experiences with the game. The only "grinding" I may have done is that I caught every new Pokemon I saw along the way which did give me a little bit of exp. Believe what you will. I had like 25 hours of playtime on my Sun playthrough. I blitzed through it pretty fast.

Regardless, if you're going to immediately accuse someone of lying it's clear there's no productive discussion to be had, so I'll leave it at that.

[Darththeo]

Killed any semblance of challenge.



You wouldn't be saying that if you had played Pokemon games before gen 6.



Oh look, this arguement. Again. Defenders of the mandatory EXP share push this bizzare narrative that the pre-EXP share games were a chore where you had to level grind everyone up just to have a chance. That isn't true. You just had to swap out your lead Pokemon from time to time but your whole team wasn't always overleveled so at least you did get KOed and have to put a little actual effort into your strategies.



Gens 4 and 5 had notoriously difficult final stretches. BW1 was probably the most well balanced mainline game we ever got and was a challenge all the way through. Gen 3 wasn't super hard but it wasn't a cakewalk either.



They were hard lol



Play BW1.

Amazing, every word of what you just said was wrong.

I have played every Generation save Gen 5 when it was originally released. Gen 4 wasn't at all hard, which is part of the reason the Cynthia fight is remembered as difficult because it was harder than the rest of the game was. And she arguably still is the hardest champion in terms of team balance.

Black and White was not difficult at all, so I don't know why you are claiming they were hard. But, I do know people claim they were, but that was mostly because of the odd experience levels that lead to people grinding on Audino for experience. It is funny you deny that pre-Gen 6 had grinding and yet claim a hard game is the one game where there has an extremely well known exp grinding method.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

It is funny you deny that pre-Gen 6 had grinding and yet claim a hard game is the one game where there has an extremely well known exp grinding method.

I never found out about the Audino method until many years later. None of my friends knew about it either.

[Poppincaps]

Except that's not the way persona 4 xp works at all, you get exponentially more xp the more under level you are if you cycled in characters in Persona 4 Golden the main character only stays 2-5 levels(depending on spot in the game) ahead and everyone else stays on par for the current dungeons. Your other characters are useless because you never used them at all, if you did you would find leveling them up is a joke. It wasn't really a big deal at all, and didn't require grinding they just made the process way more simple in 5 so you don't have to worry about using characters equally anymore. Nobody complained "errrrmagod you made it easier" nobody cared. Only Pokemon fans seem to care. The rest of the gaming universe calls these QOL changes, only the Pokemon community seems to complain about trivial things.

Okay? My point still stands. In Persona 5, you're still not going to be overleveled because of the party sharing exp. In Sw/Sh you're overleveled for most of the game until you hit Leon, the League Champion, and he has a massive jump in levels from the trainers before him and you end up being on par with him. At least that's how it was in my playthrough and I didn't do any grinding except catching one of every Pokemon I saw as I traveled around.

I swear you are acting like I want them to make some massive change to the game. All I want is an option that was previously in the game, back. In Persona there was never an option. It was all or nothing. There was no discernible reason for them to change it. XP wasn't even an issue in any of the Pokemon games since like Gen 5.

[Darththeo]

Maybe you're lying and you skipped a bunch of trainers? Maybe you're lying and you turned it off during Sun and Moon? Calling someone a liar is not a good way to have a productive conversation.

I have no reason to lie, I care a lot about the Pokemon games, but I really don't care whether you guys believe me enough to purposely lie about my experiences with the game. The only "grinding" I may have done is that I caught every new Pokemon I saw along the way which did give me a little bit of exp. Believe what you will. I had like 25 hours of playtime on my Sun playthrough. I blitzed through it pretty fast.

Regardless, if you're going to immediately accuse someone of lying it's clear there's no productive discussion to be had, so I'll leave it at that.

I have never turned off the experience share in Sun and Moon. Nor did I skip any trainers. I have never turned it off in any of the Alola playthroughs I have done, at all.

Again, you are either mistaken or lying because I was not overleveled. And the games are not designed with you catching every new pokemon in mind, Game Freak thinks people don't go into collection of pokemon until post game and collect for their team members only. You can talk about how that is silly design, but it is what they tend to think. They think dex completion is post game.

- - - Updated - - -

I never found out about the Audino method until many years later. None of my friends knew about it either.

I guess you weren't on the internet because I heard of it before I even bought the games. There are people talking about Audino grinding online dating back at least March 2011 (release was Sept of 2010).

Proof:

There are several other. There are people talking about it on posts on Facebook dating that old. It was well known by the community, regardless of the experience of your friend group.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I don't see how this pedantry is relevant to my point. A specific speed leveling trick isn't the same as a ridiculously huge EXP rate increase for your entire team that you can't turn off.

[Darththeo]

I don't see how this pedantry is relevant to my point. A specific speed leveling trick isn't the same as a ridiculously huge EXP rate increase for your entire team that you can't turn off.

You said: Pre-gen 6 weren't grindfests.
You said: BW1 are hard.

Black and White are known for Audino grinding.

I am not against a toggle. I am pointing out you are self contradictory.

[infinitemeridian]

I really don't understand how anybody can claim any game was remotely "hard", unless by "hard" you mean you didn't steamroll the champion with one pokemon and they maybe took out 2-3 of yours...then sure, gen 4 / 5 were hard. They were still pretty much on autopilot as all pokemon games are as long as you have type effectivess (Which is the real culprit of why these games are too easy, supereffective moves are WAY too strong).

[Poppincaps]

I don't see how this pedantry is relevant to my point. A specific speed leveling trick isn't the same as a ridiculously huge EXP rate increase for your entire team that you can't turn off.

Clearly you're lying Val, because how could you possibly not know about a leveling method that requires farming a specific Pokemon with a low encounter rate? Like, honestly how have you not seen this video tutorial that has 100,000 views even though the games sold over 15 million?

It's so obvious that you're just telling little fibs to suit your agenda

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I give up. This like trying to argue with a brick wall like Kenn or MrAnderson.

[Tech614]

I give up. This like trying to argue with a brick wall like Kenn or MrAnderson.

Well you're claiming B/W is hard so I can only imagine you're terrible at JRPGs or you think failing 5-10 times on a entire playthrough makes something "hard".

If B/W is hard then what is Nocturne or Devil Survivor 2 lol? Or hell it's absolute trash but Persona 3: The Answer how about that? These are actual hard turn based JRPGs, not fucking pokemon.