1. #30801
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    I think graphics are important, but only insofar as they support the style of the game. Final Fantasy 7 is an example of a game where the graphics completely ruin the game. I'm sorry but blocky chibi Sephiroth running around stabbing people is just not intimidating at all. Whereas in Final Fantasy 7 Remake they were really able to bring Midgar and the characters to life with the enhanced graphics. Ultimately, art direction is what matters, not really the raw fidelity of a title.

    I think Legends Arceus looks fine. It doesn't really add to the experience, but I don't think it really detracts from it either.
    Not a fair comparison. Ff7 had hardware limitations, but they made the cgi cutscenes to show what the game is really supposed to look like and you're supposed to imagine the game looking like that. Dont look at it through the lens of 25 years of tech advancements
    Last edited by Video Games; Yesterday at 08:51 PM.

  2. #30802
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Council View Post
    i always love the graphics are important people because i can simply bring up Minecraft and their argument becomes moot.
    Minecraft has an aesthetic it sticks to.

    It is low fidelity aesthetic but it works really well.

    Pokémon doesn't have good aesthetic and just has bad graphics.

  3. #30803
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    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    Not a fair comparison. Ff7 had hardware limitations, but they made the cgi cutscenes to show what the game is really supposed to look like and you're supposed to imagine the game looking like that. Dont look at it through the lens of 25 years of tech advancements
    I mean FF8 and FF9 look just fine and they run on the same hardware. I'm just saying I think FF7 graphically has aged the worst of any game I've seen and the art team should've known that the chibi 3D models would clash against the realistic looking 2D backgrounds. Obviously I forgive them as 3D games were relatively new during that time, but it doesn't change my opinion that the game has aged atrociously.

  4. #30804
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    Oh what could have been

  5. #30805
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    Oh what could have been
    It's a shame no one has tried making a fangame using those beautiful Kanto Redrawn maps. Also a shame that we are a decade into the era of 3D mainline games and they still look awful compared to the 2D entries.

  6. #30806
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    I mean FF8 and FF9 look just fine and they run on the same hardware. I'm just saying I think FF7 graphically has aged the worst of any game I've seen and the art team should've known that the chibi 3D models would clash against the realistic looking 2D backgrounds. Obviously I forgive them as 3D games were relatively new during that time, but it doesn't change my opinion that the game has aged atrociously.
    I also think its aged like shit, but im judging it by 1997 stanards and a lot of people thought it was one of the best looking games at the time. Like i think mario world looks better than dong bong cunt 30 years later because its much cleaner and vibrant, but i wont deny people thought dong bong cunt was graphcially amazing for its time

  7. #30807
    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post


    Oh what could have been
    I prefer this over bw(2) or swsh

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    I mean FF8 and FF9 look just fine and they run on the same hardware. I'm just saying I think FF7 graphically has aged the worst of any game I've seen and the art team should've known that the chibi 3D models would clash against the realistic looking 2D backgrounds. Obviously I forgive them as 3D games were relatively new during that time, but it doesn't change my opinion that the game has aged atrociously.
    if i'm not mistaken ff7 is one of the very first triangle/polygon 3D technology

  8. #30808
    The Insane Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    I think graphics are important, but only insofar as they support the style of the game. Final Fantasy 7 is an example of a game where the graphics completely ruin the game. I'm sorry but blocky chibi Sephiroth running around stabbing people is just not intimidating at all. Whereas in Final Fantasy 7 Remake they were really able to bring Midgar and the characters to life with the enhanced graphics. Ultimately, art direction is what matters, not really the raw fidelity of a title.
    Apples to oranges comparison. FF7 was one of the first ever 3D games on a home console. 3D gaming was in its infancy and Square had to learn through trial and error and do everything themselves, as there were few to no off the shelf programs they could buy. They had to create their own development software.

    Arceus released after the games industry had 25 years of experience working on 3D games and has nailed down the techniques and pipelines. Lots of off the shelf software exists and the industry is oversaturated with artists who have the ability to make a good looking game. Game Freak is the front runner for a hundred billion dollar franchise. There is no reason why they can't have hired the talent required to make their games look bloody fantastic, as well as play well, and yet here they are struggling with game making 101.



    Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss; Yesterday at 10:00 PM.

  9. #30809
    Over 9000! Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Apples to oranges comparison. FF7 was one of the first ever 3D games on a home console. 3D gaming was in its infancy and Square had to learn through trial and error and do everything themselves, as there were few to no off the shelf programs they could buy. They had to create their own development software.

    Arceus released after the games industry had 25 years of experience working on 3D games and has nailed down the techniques and pipelines. Lots of off the shelf software exists and there the industry is oversaturated with artists who have the ability to make a good looking game.

    These issues aren't hard to fix, and yet GameFreak is struggling with game making 101. They have the money to hire competent talent that has experience. There is no excuse.
    My point is that Sephiroth is supposed to be a super intimidating guy, but most of the game you see him as this blocky chibi character. In Legends Arceus, it may not look good but nothing graphically stands out as breaking my immersion like in Final Fantasy 7.

    Also the gifs you posted have nothing to do with graphics, so I don't know why you posted them. Regardless, I'm not about to play devil's advocate for these games. I don't think they look great, but they're servicable enough that it likely won't detract from my experience.

    - - - Updated - - -

    It really doesn't matter how new or old the game is, ultimately the graphics in FF7 are not serving the message the game is trying to tell. They didn't have to make it 3D, they chose to because Square was all about pushing boundaries at the time, and I respect that. The unfortunate consequence is that you have a game that has aged incredibly poorly.

  10. #30810
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    My point is that Sephiroth is supposed to be a super intimidating guy, but most of the game you see him as this blocky chibi character. In Legends Arceus, it may not look good but nothing graphically stands out as breaking my immersion like in Final Fantasy 7.

    Also the gifs you posted have nothing to do with graphics, so I don't know why you posted them. Regardless, I'm not about to play devil's advocate for these games. I don't think they look great, but they're servicable enough that it likely won't detract from my experience.

    - - - Updated - - -

    It really doesn't matter how new or old the game is, ultimately the graphics in FF7 are not serving the message the game is trying to tell. They didn't have to make it 3D, they chose to because Square was all about pushing boundaries at the time, and I respect that. The unfortunate consequence is that you have a game that has aged incredibly poorly.
    You're supposed to interpert him as seen in the cgi cutscenes with your imagination. You keep looking at it through the lense of modern photo realistic graphics.

  11. #30811
    Over 9000! Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Video Games View Post
    You're supposed to interpert him as seen in the cgi cutscenes with your imagination. You keep looking at it through the lense of modern photo realistic graphics.
    If I wanted to use my imagination I'd read a book. Also, you could that argument for most 2D games like Final Fantasy 6, but FF6's graphics don't clash in the way that 7s does. Also I literally just said FF8 and FF9 look fine and they were released like literally 2 years and 3 years after 7. Crash Bandicoot also has shitty blocky 3D models, but it works in the environment they put him in.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Regardless this is super off topic, just replace FF7 with whatever other game you feel has a dissonance between the mood of the game and the graphics of the game.

  12. #30812
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    If I wanted to use my imagination I'd read a book. Also, you could that argument for most 2D games like Final Fantasy 6, but FF6's graphics don't clash in the way that 7s does. Also I literally just said FF8 and FF9 look fine and they were released like literally 2 years and 3 years after 7. Crash Bandicoot also has shitty blocky 3D models, but it works in the environment they put him in.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Regardless this is super off topic, just replace FF7 with whatever other game you feel has a dissonance between the mood of the game and the graphics of the game.
    You had to use your imagination in early gaming with its caveman graphics. Also of couse they look better after getting a grasp of the hardware.

    Crash LOOKS fine because they had to compromise on draw diatance which is worse than when i take my glasses off. Ff7 looks like shit now, but at the time had amazing backgrounds and full modled battles and cgi cutscenes. That was the compromise. By 1998, most studios had a good grasp on the hardware with re2, mgs and ff8

  13. #30813
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    Quote Originally Posted by rarhyx View Post
    I prefer this over bw(2) or swsh
    Too bad there is no platform to run it. Game Boy Color can't do that.

  14. #30814
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    It's not a weighted score so it's not holding it down much at all. Only main IGN is a weighted score and they haven't reviewed it yet. Gamespot with a weighted 80 basically guarantees it to stay in the mid 80s, it would need some weighted 95+ scores to overcome that and get much higher. If another weighted publication like IGN or EDGE comes in with an 8 it will drop way lower then a non weighted place giving it a 50.

    That's the big difference between metacritic and opencritic. OC is an average of all reviews, MC is only big boys matter and the rest of the reviews are here for cosmetic reasons.
    Wow, that is actually very interesting info, I honestly had no idea. Very relevant to my interests actually. Thanks!

  15. #30815
    Quote Originally Posted by rarhyx View Post
    if i'm not mistaken ff7 is one of the very first triangle/polygon 3D technology
    First FF yea...

    Not even close to being one of the first games using that tech lol. Anyways FFIX ended up looking a full gen ahead of FFVII, not in just the rendered polygon models either but in the pre rendered backgrounds and cgi cutscenes as well. VII was definitely a rough first go for Square, and they got better at rendering 3D very rapidly.

  16. #30816
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Apples to oranges comparison. FF7 was one of the first ever 3D games on a home console.
    Not even close. 1995 saw the first 3D games with the Virtual Boy, and the N64 and PS had quite a few before FF7 released.yes it was still in it's infancy, but there were better looking first time 3D games before FF7 showed up.

    And yes, there have been over 25 years of 3D games, but GF had not stepped into the 3D space really until Sword and Shield. Which those games and this game aren't that bad considering the budget they have to work with. You'd think the devs of one of gaming's biggest IPs could get a AAA budget instead of AA. Maybe with more funding they could hire more 3D artists or have more time to fix animations or whatever peoples issues are with these Switch games.

    Personally I think they look fine. Graphics are usually way down the list of things I care about when deciding on a game to buy. Even then, graphical quality rarely ever figures into my decisions. Gameplay, is king, everything else being good is just a bonus.

  17. #30817
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    Not even close. 1995 saw the first 3D games with the Virtual Boy, and the N64 and PS had quite a few before FF7 released.yes it was still in it's infancy, but there were better looking first time 3D games before FF7 showed up.

    And yes, there have been over 25 years of 3D games, but GF had not stepped into the 3D space really until Sword and Shield. Which those games and this game aren't that bad considering the budget they have to work with. You'd think the devs of one of gaming's biggest IPs could get a AAA budget instead of AA. Maybe with more funding they could hire more 3D artists or have more time to fix animations or whatever peoples issues are with these Switch games.

    Personally I think they look fine. Graphics are usually way down the list of things I care about when deciding on a game to buy. Even then, graphical quality rarely ever figures into my decisions. Gameplay, is king, everything else being good is just a bonus.
    Way earlier then 1995 even. Virtua Fighter came out in 1993 and that was fully rendered with polygons.

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