1. #31441
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    The easiest games from the NES era make shit like cuphead or souls from modern day look like casual modes. Haven't played Tunic but I have massive doubts its anywhere close to OG Zelda in difficulty.
    Yeah its odd how the simpler games can be more difficult. It seems like that era they designed the games requiring near perfect runs/execution where as games now normally have a few ways to avoid failure
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  2. #31442
    Legendary! hellhamster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Yeah its odd how the simpler games can be more difficult. It seems like that era they designed the games requiring near perfect runs/execution where as games now normally have a few ways to avoid failure
    Old games were made hard to increase the playtime.

  3. #31443
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellhamster View Post
    Old games were made hard to increase the playtime.
    They were hard to increase the number of coins spent in an arcade machine.

    Same philosophy just got applied to home console games once they became a thing. Also helped to mask the shortness of the games.

  4. #31444
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Yeah its odd how the simpler games can be more difficult. It seems like that era they designed the games requiring near perfect runs/execution where as games now normally have a few ways to avoid failure
    A lot of games from that era aren't much longer than an hour or two in actual content, they pad it with difficulty instead.

    When the game is 15-20 hours long on say normal mode nowadays, there's less impetus to make it require such perfect execution.

  5. #31445
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Oh wow no way dude you just described every game ever! 10/10 post.
    The difference being that you can go into a modern game like Elden Ring knowing exactly how Souls games work and still get your ass handed to you, regardless of how "knowledgable" you are. No one's going to unironically tell you "skill issue" for not knowing where to go in Zelda 1, but that will absolutely be the case for a Souls game


  6. #31446
    Quote Originally Posted by Skirdus View Post
    The difference being that you can go into a modern game like Elden Ring knowing exactly how Souls games work and still get your ass handed to you, regardless of how "knowledgable" you are. No one's going to unironically tell you "skill issue" for not knowing where to go in Zelda 1, but that will absolutely be the case for a Souls game
    Pretty sure Elden Ring is probably the worst one to use as an example for knowledge with how infamous some of the exp grind locations are, so you could easily power to an extreme level and become nearly unkillable with knowledge.

  7. #31447
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    I think it was in part the crypticness as well.

    There were games where most players could not proceed until you got your next issue of Nintendo Power, or EGM for instructions on what to do next.

    It is what makes games like Dark Souls or certain Metroidvanias a no go for me. I'm not a big fan of "The game doesn't hold your hand, figure it out!". I used to be when I was younger, but now in my 40's, I don't have the patience for it.

    [Not knocking these games. They just aren't for me anymore.]
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  8. #31448
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Pretty sure Elden Ring is probably the worst one to use as an example for knowledge with how infamous some of the exp grind locations are, so you could easily power to an extreme level and become nearly unkillable with knowledge.
    Exp grinds are an entirely optional part of the game though. It certainly gives you an advantage, but you can still get through all of Elden Ring without abusing an exp grind once.

    Meanwhile, you literally CANNOT progress in Zelda 1 unless you know that the one item in the game that seems to have no purpose whatsoever has to be used in one very specific room to deal with a very specific situation that never appears again in the entire game; something you'll only ever figure out via the internet (which didn't exist at the time) or an aforementioned strategy guide like Nintendo Power. Esotericism at its absolute worst


  9. #31449
    Quote Originally Posted by Skirdus View Post
    Exp grinds are an entirely optional part of the game though. It certainly gives you an advantage, but you can still get through all of Elden Ring without abusing an exp grind once.

    Meanwhile, you literally CANNOT progress in Zelda 1 unless you know that the one item in the game that seems to have no purpose whatsoever has to be used in one very specific room to deal with a very specific situation that never appears again in the entire game; something you'll only ever figure out via the internet (which didn't exist at the time) or an aforementioned strategy guide like Nintendo Power. Esotericism at its absolute worst
    That sounds more like you're thinking of Castlevania honestly, with it's whole "get the one item and crouch against the wall in a specific area for several moments" or whatever.


    I don't remember anything in the original Zelda being that cryptic outside of power gains like heart containers. I could be forgetting a few but I'm pretty sure most of the really cryptic "burn this specific tree" was completely optional.


    As for the exp thing, that isn't even what I was saying. You said you still need the skill for Elden Ring. I was just pointing out the right knowledge completely removes that issue, with the right amount of grinding.

  10. #31450
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    I don't remember anything in the original Zelda being that cryptic outside of power gains like heart containers. I could be forgetting a few but I'm pretty sure most of the really cryptic "burn this specific tree" was completely optional.
    Probably talking about the Bait block.

  11. #31451
    Quote Originally Posted by Skirdus View Post
    Meanwhile, you literally CANNOT progress in Zelda 1 unless you know that the one item in the game that seems to have no purpose whatsoever has to be used in one very specific room to deal with a very specific situation that never appears again in the entire game; something you'll only ever figure out via the internet (which didn't exist at the time) or an aforementioned strategy guide like Nintendo Power. Esotericism at its absolute worst
    The NES game willow had a part a lot like this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
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  12. #31452
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    I personally find the 8bit gaming era really frustrating to play, and not as good as the rose tinted glasses crowd like to make it out to be.

    16bit era was where gaming really took off IMO. Even now so many SNES games have incredible replay value.


    Sports and Fitness mod, Brit with weird sleeping hours.
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  13. #31453
    Quote Originally Posted by Skirdus View Post
    The difference being that you can go into a modern game like Elden Ring knowing exactly how Souls games work and still get your ass handed to you
    Uhh, my 2nd playthrough of elden ring was like a grand total of 6 hours after knowing everything to do and all boss patterns already. Good try though, golf clap.

  14. #31454
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    I personally find the 8bit gaming era really frustrating to play, and not as good as the rose tinted glasses crowd like to make it out to be.

    16bit era was where gaming really took off IMO. Even now so many SNES games have incredible replay value.
    I have to agree. SNES and Genesis are where gaming took a giant leap forward.
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  15. #31455
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    I personally find the 8bit gaming era really frustrating to play, and not as good as the rose tinted glasses crowd like to make it out to be.

    16bit era was where gaming really took off IMO. Even now so many SNES games have incredible replay value.
    People misinterpret 'difficulty' due to hardware limitations and underdeveloped design principles as "good game design". For every gem there were hundreds or duds, and clones, just like today.


    People like to cite stuff like "devs had to get the game right at launch because there were no day 1 patches. I guess those people never had to deal with soft locks, hard locks, corrupted saves, games that flat out stopped working as a kid who relied on Christmas and birthdays to get new games. Man I wish we had game patches back.

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  16. #31456
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    I personally find the 8bit gaming era really frustrating to play, and not as good as the rose tinted glasses crowd like to make it out to be.

    16bit era was where gaming really took off IMO. Even now so many SNES games have incredible replay value.
    Would agree but perhaps I am biased.

    I grew up with SNES and Genesis being current gen. Of course we still had an old school nintendo and sega even. I never found them enjoyable though.

  17. #31457
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    People misinterpret 'difficulty' due to hardware limitations and underdeveloped design principles as "good game design". For every gem there were hundreds or duds, and clones, just like today.


    People like to cite stuff like "devs had to get the game right at launch because there were no day 1 patches. I guess those people never had to deal with soft locks, hard locks, corrupted saves, games that flat out stopped working as a kid who relied on Christmas and birthdays to get new games. Man I wish we had game patches back.
    They also see like the FF6s the Super Metroids and the Zeldas and think MAN SNES ERA WAS GODLIKE ignoring all the garbage in-between. Nostalgias a helluva drug when you didn't even know things like BOB, Radical Rex, Dennis the Menace, Shaq Fu even existed.

    Hell this is even ignoring how broken the good ones were...Realm in FF6 had the chance to fully crash your game and delete your save files because you used sketch at the wrong time

  18. #31458
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    They also see like the FF6s the Super Metroids and the Zeldas and think MAN SNES ERA WAS GODLIKE ignoring all the garbage in-between. Nostalgias a helluva drug when you didn't even know things like BOB, Radical Rex, Dennis the Menace, Shaq Fu even existed.

    Hell this is even ignoring how broken the good ones were...Realm in FF6 had the chance to fully crash your game and delete your save files because you used sketch at the wrong time
    Kids these days don't know the disappointment of an LJN game when they think that era was all classics.

  19. #31459
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    Loving splatoon so far already played it more then xenoblade/saints row combined.
    I absolutely hate the riding the rail challenges in the solo area thou.

  20. #31460
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    They also see like the FF6s the Super Metroids and the Zeldas and think MAN SNES ERA WAS GODLIKE ignoring all the garbage in-between. Nostalgias a helluva drug when you didn't even know things like BOB, Radical Rex, Dennis the Menace, Shaq Fu even existed.

    Hell this is even ignoring how broken the good ones were...Realm in FF6 had the chance to fully crash your game and delete your save files because you used sketch at the wrong time
    Here is an example. This past weekend, I had an itch for SNES Fighting games. So I got myself an Art of Fighting Rom.

    Notalgia told me that this game was amazing. My memory recalled great art, and awesome fighting.

    Loaded it up, and started playing. This game is so bad!!! There are 3 moves. Punch, Kick, and Taunt. There are special moves, but not many. Most people would remember Street Fighter 2 as the greatest, maybe even Fatal Fury, or Samurai Shodown. But if you look up all of the fighting games for SNES, you will find so many games that attempted to reach the heights of Street Fighter 2, but just couldn't match up, and ended up being pretty terrible games in the grand scheme of things.

    Of course, this is seen through the lens of hindsight. At that time when these lesser games were released, they were forgiven because that was the age where these genre's were being innovated. The point i'm aiming at is that there was a whole lot of trial and error happening, and there were far more errors than successes.
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