Total War: WARHAMMER - Official anounced

[Tommy T]

I realise not all players will be up to the level of some of the youtubers, but being able to raze the entirety of Ulthuan by turn 3, fighting and winning 40 battles in a single turn and only ending it because they were bored or winning the game by turn 18 is probably not what CA intended.

For sure.
Needs to be some sort of diminishing returns.

Never played Beastmen, looking forward to giving them a go, but think I'll enjoy the Dwarf re-work more than anything.

[Saltysquidoon]

Looks like Tuskgore Mounts are bugged too and are lawn mowing on the prerelease patch.
Between this and the Taurox stuff looks like the beastmemes will be wild come patch day.

[Jastall]

Looks like Tuskgore Mounts are bugged too and are lawn mowing on the prerelease patch.
Between this and the Taurox stuff looks like the beastmemes will be wild come patch day.

I'm pretty sure Tuskgors are just bugged, basically they constantly attack instead of dealing damage in intervals. Legendoftotalwar also did a video on it and even Bray-Shamans on Tuskgors were absolutely dumpstering vet 9, Legendary difficulty Chaos Knights and Spawn with 0 micro required. Trust me, other faction's mages on chariots will never do that.

Taurox is clearly very OP but it may be intentional this time. CA did left Ikit's lab and Sniktch's instant faction deletion button as-is, albeit they admitedly only got busted later in the campaign while Taurox is ridiculous day 1. I do agree there should be diminishing returns after a couple uses, and I'm happy it's only a one character mechanic rather than a general Beastmen one.

[Corvus]

Okay, having played for a bit, Taurox and the Beastmen are power creep to an astonishing level.

I'm trying legendary for the first time and I'm just 13 turns in. Taurox is already level 25 and can pretty much wreck armies singlehanded. He is in his third rampage and has just raised his third herdstone - in Naggaroth. The sisters are dead. In a few turns Morathi and Malekith will join them - both have lost their capitals and can only recruit chaff. Meanwhile I have 3 full stack armies and have access to things like giants, chaos spawn and manticores. I'm on the verge of unlocking t4 units as well with a bit more loot.

[KrayZ33]

Wait until you see Malagor who can like... kill 4 full stacks of high tier units on it's own without any problems or micromanaging at all.

[Nerraw]

All that new tasty stuff, and what do I do? Start another run as Vlad.

[Corvus]

Wait until you see Malagor who can like... kill 4 full stacks of high tier units on it's own without any problems or micromanaging at all.

Is he the one who does aoe damage around him? I think I saw somewhere he can get stalk as well and park himself basically invisible beneath walls and kill the wall defenders who can't target him as he isn't technically attacking.

[Saltysquidoon]

It's not just taurox and the whole 'win the game in 13 turns' thing.

Everything about the beastmemes is busted now. The tomb kings are balanced by having slow growth, being up against strong early factions, expensive unlocks and skeletrons being irredeemable trash (ungors are 'bad' chaff but not that bad). Further, They're a 'normal' faction who has to worry about the AI benny hilling you settlements without walls.

Literally, none of that applies to the Raaahrooos. I had the orcs attack a herdstone maybe once in my Malagor campaign while I was eating their heart out. It actually just highlights how cowardly the AI is programmed to be, it just sits there raiding empty bloodgrounds because it's scared of the attrition it will barely take, confused out of its mind because it won't attack my armies or my heardstones looking for a low tier settlement to attack that will never appear.

Oxyotal is OP too mind, with his army of basically free godmode skinks, he just still has to take settlements if you don't just want to play solo doomslayer so you could actually lose if you don't build walls.
EDIT: How did CA not give Tehenhauin skink upkeep reduction? Poor guy.

[RadasNoir]

It actually just highlights how cowardly the AI is programmed to be, it just sits there raiding empty bloodgrounds because it's scared of the attrition it will barely take, confused out of its mind because it won't attack my armies or my heardstones looking for a low tier settlement to attack that will never appear.

This is one of the biggest problems I've always had with playing TWW in general. The AI plays WAY too defensively. It's like half the fight is either attempting to corner the AI so they can't run and hide anymore or somehow tricking them into fighting you anyway. It's like a child stubbornly refusing to come out and play.

Out of curiosity, are there actually mods that modify the AI's behavior? Maybe something that makes them a bit more aggressive?

[Airlick]

This is one of the biggest problems I've always had with playing TWW in general. The AI plays WAY too defensively. It's like half the fight is either attempting to corner the AI so they can't run and hide anymore or somehow tricking them into fighting you anyway. It's like a child stubbornly refusing to come out and play.

Out of curiosity, are there actually mods that modify the AI's behavior? Maybe something that makes them a bit more aggressive?

That really depends on the game. The AI is either completely passive (like ETW/Napoleon, Rome 2) and keeps all the armies around capitals while losing all the other provinces with no response, OR it's crazy aggressive and will continue swarming you, and usually do it in such a fashion that you can easily use 1 army to capture half of their empty territories (as is the case with Warhammer or Shogun 2). Also depends on your difficulty, but on VH/legendary AI was very aggressive whenever I played, but the last time was like half a year ago. The only TW game that came any close to finding a middle ground in this regard is 3K.

[Nerraw]

The only TW game that came any close to finding a middle ground in this regard is 3K.

With it being the newest entry, hopefully that's a good sign for WH3's AI though.

[RadasNoir]

Also depends on your difficulty, but on VH/legendary AI was very aggressive whenever I played, but the last time was like half a year ago. The only TW game that came any close to finding a middle ground in this regard is 3K.

So it does actually vary from game-to-game? I have to admit, I've only played Warhammer 2 to any significant degree, although I have very briefly touched both Shogun 2 and 3 Kingdoms.

And I feel like I'm phrasing it wrong when I put the AI's behavior as either "offensive" or "defensive". Like Saltysquidoon said, it's more that it's "cowardly". The AI (again, at least in Warhammer) tends to absolutely refuse to fight unless it majorly has the upper hand. It has no problem ransacking defenseless settlements or going after solitary lords (one of the ways you can trick it into an ambush), but it will just hole up in a walled city, building up it's forces, if there's any army nearby that could even remotely challenge it on even ground. The idea might be to make the AI seem "smarter" or more "challenging", but it just ends up being tedious. Again, it feels like I spend more time trying to figure how to get the AI fight me, than actually fighting the AI. At least in the early stages of the game; maybe it stops mattering later on in the game when you're strong enough to just roll over the AI no matter where they try to hide. While I've played Warhammer the most, I have yet to actually make it to the "late game", partially because I get frustrated with playing cat-and-mouse with the AI at the start.

[KrayZ33]

So it does actually vary from game-to-game? I have to admit, I've only played Warhammer 2 to any significant degree, although I have very briefly touched both Shogun 2 and 3 Kingdoms.

And I feel like I'm phrasing it wrong when I put the AI's behavior as either "offensive" or "defensive". Like Saltysquidoon said, it's more that it's "cowardly". The AI (again, at least in Warhammer) tends to absolutely refuse to fight unless it majorly has the upper hand. It has no problem ransacking defenseless settlements or going after solitary lords (one of the ways you can trick it into an ambush), but it will just hole up in a walled city, building up it's forces, if there's any army nearby that could even remotely challenge it on even ground. The idea might be to make the AI seem "smarter" or more "challenging", but it just ends up being tedious. Again, it feels like I spend more time trying to figure how to get the AI fight me, than actually fighting the AI. At least in the early stages of the game; maybe it stops mattering later on in the game when you're strong enough to just roll over the AI no matter where they try to hide. While I've played Warhammer the most, I have yet to actually make it to the "late game", partially because I get frustrated with playing cat-and-mouse with the AI at the start.

This is a thing that has been fixed quite long ago imho.
The AI bunkers up, yes. But why would it fight you outside its walls.

On higher difficulties, they are very agressive.

If you still think it's not agressive enough, it would mean you want the AI to choose fight it can obviously not win, which is a horrible idea.

[RadasNoir]

If you still think it's not agressive enough, it would mean you want the AI to choose fight it can obviously not win, which is a horrible idea.

Again, it feels like the AI refuses to fight at all unless the odds are overwhelmingly in its favor. Like, not even when it has a slight advantage or if things would be evenly matched. Only if it is a 200% guaranteed win for the AI.

I agree that I don't want the opposite either, where the AI stupidly rushes into fights where it's horribly over-matched, but I can't help feeling like there can be a middle ground between being stupid and overly-cautious.

I guess I could also give the harder difficulties a try at some point, just to see what you guys mean when you say the AI is more aggressive in those.

[Gorsameth]

My problem with turning up the difficulty is that you then get 1 city minor ai spamming 2-3 full stacks right from the start.

[Easo]

Not sure AI if is that passive, though. I play on normal and it does go for the weak points often and I would say usually engages me if the armies are rated as equal without clear advantage over the other. I mean, we run from AI doomstacks too to the safety of the walls, that's reasonable, not like every player is Legendoftotalwar.

Could it be better, though? Sure, always.

All that new tasty stuff, and what do I do? Start another run as Vlad.

Surely you mean Empire/Dwarfs, riiiight?

[Nerraw]

Surely you mean Empire/Dwarfs, riiiight?

Well, I went to grab the gold mines IN THE MOUNTAINS. Does that count?

[Chelly]

Finished Taurox campaign by running around solo on legendary campaign/very hard battle. He has a hidden trait that gives him +10% ward save and replenishment if he wins ~5-10 battles alone versus an enemy army worth 2500 gold or more.
He's ridiculously strong, and even the final quest battle was a joke.

Malagor is downright broken too. A ridiculous amount of spellcasts.

Fun stuff, but as usual the game becomes too easy ~20-30 turns in, where you end up just auto resolving everything. Wish they'd add in an even harder difficulty setting.

[Jastall]

Okay, having played for a bit, Taurox and the Beastmen are power creep to an astonishing level.

I'm trying legendary for the first time and I'm just 13 turns in. Taurox is already level 25 and can pretty much wreck armies singlehanded. He is in his third rampage and has just raised his third herdstone - in Naggaroth. The sisters are dead. In a few turns Morathi and Malekith will join them - both have lost their capitals and can only recruit chaff. Meanwhile I have 3 full stack armies and have access to things like giants, chaos spawn and manticores. I'm on the verge of unlocking t4 units as well with a bit more loot.

Beastmen in general are just busted now, no two ways about it. They have crazy fast recruitment, grow much faster than any other horde, the AI is always hesitant to attack Herdstones, lose a unit? who cares, you can recruit them again in 1 turn right after, 3\4 of their LLs are OP as fuck (Malagor being even more overpowered than Taurox at high levels), Taurox's mechanics just add more to the faction's inherent OPness. It's my big issue with the rework, they basically removed all their weaknesses and amplified their strengths. Khazrak is the only somewhat balanced Beastmen start now, and even then he's still very, very strong.

The Dwarf rework does a much better job of updating the faction and giving them new toys without dialing their power level up the stratosphere.


As for the AI, it used to be very passive, I feel that it's just fine now. Their obsession with trashing minor settlements then running away is annoying but a valid strategy in the hands of the player as well so can't complain about that. 3K did have the best AI however.

[Saltysquidoon]

Just a thing re the beastmen, heardstones and AI passivity.

It clearly has no idea what to do with the ruination mechanic, it will just sit armies in a ruined blood ground waiting for the 'timer' they added to stop endless ruin inhabitation that will never come because of ruination but also just not attack the heardstone.
In my malagor run Eshin has 3-4 shit stacks just running around in ruined blood grounds doing nothing.