1. #2181
    Quote Originally Posted by Airlick View Post
    It's a small retcon at best, AFAIK Cathay "lore" was just scattered bits of information there and there, presented from other factions' PoV. The impressions of Cathay we got are just as distorted as Europeans' impression of China (and vice versa) was. GW is probably planning to actually flesh out Cathay in the future, since they are "resurrecting" WH Fantasy, WH3 Cathay is just the first step.
    Yeah, it's hardly a big deal at all, but you know it is, some people in the community (not necessarily in this thread) like to make a big deal out of everything.
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  2. #2182
    Quote Originally Posted by RadasNoir View Post
    Might be an unpopular opinion, but I was almost more hyped to finally see the forces of Tzeentch than I was those of Cathay. I get so tired of most video games featuring only Chaos Undivided, Khorne, or (occasionally) Nurgal when it comes to the forces of Chaos, especially since I find Tzeentech and Slaanesh vastly more interesting.

    Don't get me wrong: the Cathay stuff was still super cool and I'm aware of how big of a deal it is that they are finally making a full, official appearance in the world of Warhammer. I especially liked the magic user who seemed to use ink to attack and, of course, the big dragon reveal at the end of the trailer.

    That said, I was still way more jazzed to see that two-headed birb flying around and roasting stuff, like it didn't give a single fuck.
    Warhammer online had tzeentch, warhammer total war had tzeentch, dawn of war 3 had tzeentch. The one god that is never used is slaanesh. It is never ever featured , i think it is one of the most interesting because it deals with desires and excess. Which can be used for phsycological horror too.

  3. #2183
    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Testiculos View Post
    Warhammer online had tzeentch, warhammer total war had tzeentch, dawn of war 3 had tzeentch. The one god that is never used is slaanesh. It is never ever featured , i think it is one of the most interesting because it deals with desires and excess. Which can be used for phsycological horror too.
    Slaanesh is generally ignored because sex demons give rating issues.

    Can you imagine how a US rating board will react to naked 6 breasted 'females'?
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  4. #2184
    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Testiculos View Post
    Warhammer online had tzeentch, warhammer total war had tzeentch, dawn of war 3 had tzeentch. The one god that is never used is slaanesh. It is never ever featured , i think it is one of the most interesting because it deals with desires and excess. Which can be used for phsycological horror too.
    Well isn't Slaanesh usually featured in the Dark Elf/Eldar stuff.

  5. #2185
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Slaanesh is generally ignored because sex demons give rating issues.

    Can you imagine how a US rating board will react to naked 6 breasted 'females'?
    when nurgle with a mountain of torn apart bodies , full of disease is completely okay. Slaanesh does not just have to be all about sex. Lust is just one part of excess.

  6. #2186
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Slaanesh is generally ignored because sex demons give rating issues.

    Can you imagine how a US rating board will react to naked 6 breasted 'females'?
    They already changed Khorne from "blood everywhere, plus some fire" to almost strictly fire-themed, they can easily do Slaanesh without showing too many tiddies.

    Then again, more or less tiddies won't solve my issue with Slaanesh, which is that GW's version of "otherworldly beautiful and terrible" translates into purple people with too many tits and random crab claws for some reason. I've never been a fan of that aesthetic at all personally.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

    The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.

  7. #2187
    OOF, that trailer honestly makes me more hyped for Grand Cathey than it should otherwise. but I'm still waiting on that Ogre kingdoms reveal.
    Last edited by uuuhname; 2021-09-16 at 06:38 PM.

  8. #2188
    Honestly very impressive.
    P.S.
    Imrik running to Cathay memes are amazing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  9. #2189
    The lore and history of Cathay have been revealed and, yeah, it is something else. The biggest, bestest, most powerful, richest, peacefulest nation round, ruled by benevolent dragons who teach and protect their human subjects who are so loved by their subjects that should any foreigner dare say a wrong word about them then they get lynched and who have armies so powerful that they could easily dominate the lands to the west but just don't want to. And it has been that way for 5000 years.

    The only time they really had trouble was when the Emps went on vacation unannounced, leading to a power vacuum that led to the kids bickering, followed by Chaos and the the Monkey King invading, but then the Emps came back and everything was alright again.

    In any other setting, Cathay would be fine, but in a Warhammer setting it sticks out a little bit.

  10. #2190
    Better or worse than the HEs having the most ancient and magical and peaceful and perfect kingdom on their paradise of an island, only troubled by the Druchii and Khaine being dickheads?

    To me this reads like typical armybook banter, hyping up the faction as damn near perfect. People are just losing their shit because 1) Warhammer fans hate anything new as a rule and 2) the China aspect of it all.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

    The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.

  11. #2191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    The lore and history of Cathay have been revealed and, yeah, it is something else. The biggest, bestest, most powerful, richest, peacefulest nation round, ruled by benevolent dragons who teach and protect their human subjects who are so loved by their subjects that should any foreigner dare say a wrong word about them then they get lynched and who have armies so powerful that they could easily dominate the lands to the west but just don't want to. And it has been that way for 5000 years.

    The only time they really had trouble was when the Emps went on vacation unannounced, leading to a power vacuum that led to the kids bickering, followed by Chaos and the the Monkey King invading, but then the Emps came back and everything was alright again.

    In any other setting, Cathay would be fine, but in a Warhammer setting it sticks out a little bit.
    I don't really see it like that, WH is full of busted OP powers that only haven't taken over the world because they're a) smashing themselves against other OP powers, b) too disorganized to actually use their insanely overwhelming power, or c) they're just happy to chill in within their protected borders.

    People probably hate Cathay because it's different and doesn't fit their grimdark medi-euro fantasy.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  12. #2192
    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post

    People probably hate Cathay because it's different and doesn't fit their grimdark medi-euro fantasy.
    There already are a number of factions that aren't medi-euro in game, like Tomb Kings, Lizardmen, Skaven and Chaos, and no one has any problem with them. The difference is that pre-existing factions have serious internal problems to go with external threats and aren't painted as being all peaceful and pleasant and harmonious. Even the High Elves, who are the closest to that, are painted as being a dying race, having to give up their Empire as a result of the calamities of the schism with the Dark Elves and the War of the Beard. They are a dying race living on past glories - still dangerous, but a long way short of their peak. Not to mention all the machiavellian politicking and backstabbing that goes on amongst their arrogant nobility.

  13. #2193
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Better or worse than the HEs having the most ancient and magical and peaceful and perfect kingdom on their paradise of an island, only troubled by the Druchii and Khaine being dickheads?

    To me this reads like typical armybook banter, hyping up the faction as damn near perfect. People are just losing their shit because 1) Warhammer fans hate anything new as a rule and 2) the China aspect of it all.
    See Bretonnia, who has knights "valiantly defending the poor".

    It's probably similar in Cathay, but different.
    The armybook/lore description you read there is the same.

  14. #2194

  15. #2195
    If that's a siege map then it's not looking good boys.

  16. #2196
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    If that's a siege map then it's not looking good boys.
    You should see TW Reddit right now, it is the biggest "discussion" currently. Well, supposedly the actual siege rework news "should" be posted next week.
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  17. #2197
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    If that's a siege map then it's not looking good boys.
    I was never expecting a complete 100% perfect siege revamp at all (if only because backporting hugely improved siege maps to the WH1 and 2 races was far too monumental a task, but also because the AI will never play ball with complex siege maps) but if the sieges end up being the old 1-2 walls with narrow streets behind them and no layers of defense with only a few added bells and whistles I'm definitely going to be pissed. The launch of game 3 is probably the one opportunity CA has of greatly improving that lackluster aspect of the series. If they botch it now, it'll never get fixed. I'd be happy with 3K tier sieges, those were quite good.

    It's why I'm not caught up in the drama of Kislev having too many bears or Tzeentch having recolors; these kind of things are at worst always improved via DLCs. Core game mechanics hardly ever get touched post-launch and a siege rework is far out of a patch's scope.

    Of course, CA's marketing strategy of remaining as tight-lipped as possible and teasing without showing the goods nine times out of ten hardly helps build confidence as well, seeing as they don't seem to have enough of it to just let the game speak for itself.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

    The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.

  18. #2198
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    I was never expecting a complete 100% perfect siege revamp at all (if only because backporting hugely improved siege maps to the WH1 and 2 races was far too monumental a task, but also because the AI will never play ball with complex siege maps) but if the sieges end up being the old 1-2 walls with narrow streets behind them and no layers of defense with only a few added bells and whistles I'm definitely going to be pissed. The launch of game 3 is probably the one opportunity CA has of greatly improving that lackluster aspect of the series. If they botch it now, it'll never get fixed. I'd be happy with 3K tier sieges, those were quite good.

    It's why I'm not caught up in the drama of Kislev having too many bears or Tzeentch having recolors; these kind of things are at worst always improved via DLCs. Core game mechanics hardly ever get touched post-launch and a siege rework is far out of a patch's scope.

    Of course, CA's marketing strategy of remaining as tight-lipped as possible and teasing without showing the goods nine times out of ten hardly helps build confidence as well, seeing as they don't seem to have enough of it to just let the game speak for itself.
    Well, the AI can't handle the current sieges either. So it really wouldn't make a difference.
    But the siege map for Helmgart for example is way more fun than the normal siege map and it didn't take much.

    What is asked for is that walls should be useful and somewhere you want to put your archers on.
    Currently, your range units will deal less damage on walls, your melee units perform horrible on them as well.
    Siege weapons should have some kind of advantage like in the Dwarf-siege cinematic trailer etc.

  19. #2199
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Well, the AI can't handle the current sieges either. So it really wouldn't make a difference.
    But the siege map for Helmgart for example is way more fun than the normal siege map and it didn't take much.

    What is asked for is that walls should be useful and somewhere you want to put your archers on.
    Currently, your range units will deal less damage on walls, your melee units perform horrible on them as well.
    Siege weapons should have some kind of advantage like in the Dwarf-siege cinematic trailer etc.
    The Helmgart maps were a good start, what with the elevated position allowing for defense in depth. In my ideal siege rework most settlements would have this, on top of;

    -Deployment possible outside the walls. This would be especially significant for high-mobility factions like Bretonnia.

    -Deployables. Barricades for the inside, and ditches for the outside. Slow the attackers down, especially before they can touch the walls.

    -Buff said walls. Ranged units get a range and accuracy buff on it. Melee units get a big LD and MD buff. Addtionally, ranged units on walls are now betetr protected from enemy fire and can fire on units climbing ladders, no more blind spots. As a counterpoint, large monsters (think Khemrian Warshpinx/Shaggoth and up) can now attack and destroy walls. This would take long however.

    -Far wider street layouts behind the walls. Yes, in real life medieval/Renaissance cities were quite crowded. This isn't real life and the absurd scale of Warhammer allows you to create large plazzas and causeways that are far more fun to fight in than narrow chokepoints that make cavalry even more obsolete than it is now and causes tons of LoS issues. Some races like Skaven could avoid this as a tactical advantage.

    -Elevated bastions for artillery. I can get them not being deployable on walls directly, but some factions at least should be able to have special emplacements for them, mostly defensive ones like Empire, Dwarfs and Cathay.

    -Special maps for capitals, HE gates, and the Great Bastion. These are supposed to be the iconic lynchpins of their races!

    -On the more ambitious and least likely end of the scale, race-specific siege mechanics that you can prepare in advance as both attacker and defender. Dwarfs sap walls mid-battle on the offense or reinforce gates to be basically unbreakable on the defense. Skaven can launch bombs into the city on the offense or lay devious mines and traps on the defense. Vampire Counts Terrify the entire map with their spooky Halloween vibes on the defense or raise the enemy's dead from graveyards on the offense, acting as free global summons. Lizardmen rain down magics from their pyramids on the defense or summon reinforcements via Geomantic Web. There's endless possibilities!

    I went in from the easiest to hardest to implement by my reckoning. I don't think all but the last would be that hard to design and code and would greatly improve sieges. I'd also love 360 degree layouts but it's more than likely impossible to backport those to WH1 and WH2 races and minor settlement battles will already be 360 degrees anyway.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

    The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.

  20. #2200
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    It's why I'm not caught up in the drama of Kislev having too many bears or Tzeentch having recolors; these kind of things are at worst always improved via DLCs. Core game mechanics hardly ever get touched post-launch and a siege rework is far out of a patch's scope.
    Yeah, so far they haven't exactly shown much that actually justifies a game 3. So far most of the stuff could have easily been DLC for game 2.

    Them being that tight-lipped really doesn't help. I really hope they start showing actual gameplay improvements. The races are nice, but we got plenty of them already. I am still waiting for the major selling points of this game.

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