1. #2641
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Empire of Man
    Posts
    6,997
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Ah good point, I agree. And even though I knew how many settlement/siege battles you have to do in WH3, it's still way too many even if you were warned and prepared for that.
    Open field battles are basically always ambushes.
    Attrition kicking in immediatly is kinda silly. I didn't check, do castle walls give you some kind of "buffer" ? Like 3 turns before it kicks in or something?
    Because it's just like you said.

    "Close defeat and I don't feel like playing a 30 minute match? Guess I'll wait 2 turns and auto-resolve"
    The enemy can't even do anything against it. Recruiting doesn't work... so there is no way for the AI to resolve this if the auto-battle AI says "if you sally out now, you might lose".
    The AI won't do it and thus you just "won" the battle before it started.

    Maybe there should be some kind of militia recruitment for the besieged faction. (T1 units only or something)
    Or maybe they should just buff up the supplies you get per round by a very significant amount so that you can start with *way* more barricades and towers, but in the end this won't solve anything. It's too easy to cause attrition now.
    2-4 Turns are *nothing*, especially now after the supply lines change.

    As for the amount of settlement fights.
    I think they should enable those once the region is leveled up to lvl 3.
    Regions usually switch around often enough so that lvl 3 settlements are "relatively" rare even in endgame, unless a faction did really overwhelm their part of the map.
    Im not sure, that the problem is attrition by turn 1, because i will say that it has an effect when i defend. It makes taking the fight more appealable, than just waiting 5 rounds until i can create an army nearby.

    I think it is more about making the siege battles more fun. Its always gonna be more quick to just do auto-resolve, so maybe make it so that i really want to take the siege fight, because it is fun and interesting to play compared to open battles. Give me siege weapons and a large chance getting out with less losses, and it will be worth the try.

    When it comes to defending, i think they should go away from the tower defense focus, and focus on actual fighting. Maybe allow me to support the garrison with more troops, with buff zones where i can fight/hold better, and overall just make the defensive advantage on stats and not towers, that takes it toll on the enemy army automaticly.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  2. #2642
    Hmmm, I don't necessarily agree.

    as a player that knows how "not" to mess up the defence like the AI does all the time. It's always better to defend inside your castle, even after 5 turns.
    But you are always going to help out your Garrison. Or at least most of the time.
    And fighting manually will reduce your losses to like 10% of what you would lose if you auto-resolve, so it basically is that way already.
    And since it is that way, you are inclined to fight through most of them because even a small garrison can cause heavy casualties depending on the map and towers you can use.

    But you are right, siege battles should be fun and thus worth it from the fun/time spent perspective. However, that's an almost impossible task if sieges aren't "rare". The way it works right now, you have one or two ever round. So it will get boring real quick.

    I think the game would have to change *heavily* to make sieges interesting as you have to actively "poison" yourself to make sieges fun and "cinematic".
    You can divide your troops onto different layers of defence, but that's just a bad move and if you want to win, you will never do that.
    But that would be *exactly* what would turn sieges into something interesting. A battle of attrition where you fight through the streets of your castle/city.
    Maybe they should actually include buildings you have built in that settlement on the *battle-map* so that you can burn them down as an attacker... that would give the defending side something to defend outside their best fortified position, as losing a Tier-V-Stable would cost like 10-15k gold to rebuild and a lot of turns as well.
    Instead, we have utterly pointless "supply points" that do basically nothing for you and it really doesn't matter if you take them or not.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2022-09-02 at 10:16 AM.

  3. #2643
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Empire of Man
    Posts
    6,997
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Hmmm, I don't necessarily agree.

    as a player that knows how "not" to mess up the defence like the AI does all the time. It's always better to defend inside your castle, even after 5 turns.
    But you are always going to help out your Garrison. Or at least most of the time.
    And fighting manually will reduce your losses to like 10% of what you would lose if you auto-resolve, so it basically is that way already.
    And since it is that way, you are inclined to fight through most of them because even a small garrison can cause heavy casualties depending on the map and towers you can use.

    But you are right, siege battles should be fun and thus worth it from the fun/time spent perspective. However, that's an almost impossible task if sieges aren't "rare". The way it works right now, you have one or two ever round. So it will get boring real quick.

    I think the game would have to change *heavily* to make sieges interesting as you have to actively "poison" yourself to make sieges fun and "cinematic".
    You can divide your troops onto different layers of defence, but that's just a bad move and if you want to win, you will never do that.
    But that would be *exactly* what would turn sieges into something interesting. A battle of attrition where you fight through the streets of your castle/city.
    Maybe they should actually include buildings you have built in that settlement on the *battle-map* so that you can burn them down as an attacker... that would give the defending side something to defend outside their best fortified position, as losing a Tier-V-Stable would cost like 10-15k gold to rebuild and a lot of turns as well.
    Instead, we have utterly pointless "supply points" that do basically nothing for you and it really doesn't matter if you take them or not.
    I do agree, that it is always better to defend, but that is because towers are insanely overpowered. As nurgle, i can defend against tier 3 armies with my garrison and aslong as they are slow, my towers will kill 60% of the army before it reaches my center of troops.

    That is a problem. Its not the AIs fault, because the same can happen when the player attacks. Unless you storm in with all you got, the towers will start grinding your army down, making it a wierd form of "auto-attrition", a punishment for fighting too long against the siege. The focus is too much on the towers and not really about making a good and, more importantly, active defense. I should punished as the defender, if i box up around my prime point and wait the enemy out, which does not happen atm.

    I think you hit the nail on the head here pretty much. The main issue is in that you don't really have to defend your city, just a small part of it and that losing all points outside the main, does not really punish you as the player/defender.

    I don't think adding buildings would help much though, as siege battles will only become more tedious. I am not doing a siege to cripple my opponents town, im there to take it over and anything else will be a defeat. I can't see myself doing seperate siege battles over multiple turns to slowly burn the town down. Its a cool idea, but will only push the siege fatigue we are experiencing right now.

    A suggestion i would have to solve the issue, would simply have several points in the city be crucial to defenders morale. That instead of losing supplies, your defending army would lose more and more leadership as points are lost through the city. It would push the defenders to spread out and defend as much as they can, as giving up 80% of the settlement, would leave your army with very little morale to keep fighting.

    And ofcourse, this would only work if the number of settlement/siege battles were heavily reduced, so that the rare city battles can stand out as memorable.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  4. #2644
    Ghorst's base reluctance against confederation dropped to -40 from -70 (for reasons I have completely no clue about in the first place, because the game doesn't tell you anything about it). I hoped I'd be able to finally confederate him soon thanks to that, even though offering money didn't bridge the gap (or affect it at all). But then our "relative faction strenght" dropped from 39.5 to fucking 4. Ghorst still has two armies and a hostile Cathay army right next to his capital while his bigger army (where the most advanced units are two whooping battalions of Grave Guards) is a few settlements away because it was chasing an Ogre army. I also have no idea why the hell the relative strength plummeted this much either. Especially since I got six more armies since the last post.


    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    3: Most characters are not prepared for having 50 levels. Hell, some were not ready to have 40 back in TW2, so now that we have an abundance in levels, its obvious that it was a thing CA did not completly thought through.
    With the new levels, we simply need more stats to go into, more values to improve our heroes, so that when you meet a lvl 40 lord, they feel like an absolute monster of an opponent.
    Heroes are even worse, because they don't even have 50 points worth of skills. So you end up with permanent notification of unassigned skill points.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  5. #2645
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post

    Heroes are even worse, because they don't even have 50 points worth of skills. So you end up with permanent notification of unassigned skill points.
    You can enable auto-skill in the top-left corner, which removes the notification.

  6. #2646
    I know Tzeench works in mysterious ways......but is it really intended for Villich to use his Spawnify on an enemy? I am running around with a Kislev army with 3 Spawn of Tzeench. It's funny because they pretty much turned the tide against the gore queen. She is far to harsh on Kislev on the realms map btw. By turn 20, while you are probably still battling against: Norse, Praag and Throth she visits with 2-3 stacks.

  7. #2647
    My Nakai run is coming along nicely. Nakai never used to be able to afford armies, but I'm just about to complete my 6th full stack army and still making plenty a turn.

    Nakai is just about to enact the Purge Cathay element of the Great Plan. The rats, vampires, dark elves, wood elves and tzeentch who were in the area are gone, as is Miao, and last on the agenda is to take out the Iron Dragon.

    Nakai is running around with stalk, thanks to taking out Snikch, which is kind of hillarious given the size of him. What giant albino kroxigor? Oh the one smashing my face in. Right. And he has a carnasaur riding saurus scar-veteran with vangaurd deploy and a banner of swiftness so he really moves. Besides the hereos he has (Kroak, scar-veteran, skink priest, skin oracle, skink chief), the rest of the army is made up of sacred kroxigors and beasts, most of who are RoRs.
    Last edited by Corvus; 2022-09-05 at 02:32 AM.

  8. #2648
    Overall I'm happy with the game and multiplayer now. The Trade Settlement option should be adjusted so that I can just trade whatever settlement I want with players though, at least in co-op.

    I mean... why not, and multiple at a time as well
    I had to gift my buddy 8 settlements, one at a time, so I could give him the 3 Propector regions in the mountains. And then he had to gift them back to me - one at a time.

    It's probably done so that you can't give the AI a settlement and build a perimeter of AI factions around yourself or something... but meh, whatever.

    What I *really* like however are the outpost.
    Damn, that is fun.
    Too bad that you can't build multiples for the same ally, the extra troops they get to defend as well as the mix of units you can get is just so much fun.

    Getting artillery with factions that lack them is just fantastic.
    Basically any combination whatsoever is great. Even if you don't have the red tree to buff them.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2022-09-05 at 06:13 AM.

  9. #2649
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Overall I'm happy with the game and multiplayer now. The Trade Settlement option should be adjusted so that I can just trade whatever settlement I want with players though, at least in co-op.

    I mean... why not, and multiple at a time as well
    I had to gift my buddy 8 settlements, one at a time, so I could give him the 3 Propector regions in the mountains. And then he had to gift them back to me - one at a time.

    It's probably done so that you can't give the AI a settlement and build a perimeter of AI factions around yourself or something... but meh, whatever.

    What I *really* like however are the outpost.
    Damn, that is fun.
    Too bad that you can't build multiples for the same ally, the extra troops they get to defend as well as the mix of units you can get is just so much fun.

    Getting artillery with factions that lack them is just fantastic.
    Basically any combination whatsoever is great. Even if you don't have the red tree to buff them.
    Outpost are very nice indeed especially for vampire counts as you can now get artillery as you said and better ranged units then crossbowmen if you go down that bloodline but they are meh so very nice with outposts, the hard part is getting a alliance with say empire as vampires but it can be done if you go to war with their enemies and gift them cash for example.
    Do you hear the voices too?

  10. #2650
    Quote Originally Posted by ParanoiD84 View Post
    Outpost are very nice indeed especially for vampire counts as you can now get artillery as you said and better ranged units then crossbowmen if you go down that bloodline but they are meh so very nice with outposts, the hard part is getting a alliance with say empire as vampires but it can be done if you go to war with their enemies and gift them cash for example.
    Can't you turn Empire factions into vassals? Wasn't that a thing they can do? You can build outpost then.
    But you need to pick a good one that will eventually upgrade all the way to t5... I don't know if the "minor" empire factions like Stirland even do that.

    In Warhammer 3, it seems like they are all crawling somewhere between t2 and t3 capitals... just like how the minor dwarf factions are only able to recruit, at best, longbeards. Or how the Border Princes are only able to recruit T3 units (Handgunners, empire knights etc.)
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2022-09-05 at 08:46 AM.

  11. #2651
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Overall I'm happy with the game and multiplayer now. The Trade Settlement option should be adjusted so that I can just trade whatever settlement I want with players though, at least in co-op.

    I mean... why not, and multiple at a time as well
    I had to gift my buddy 8 settlements, one at a time, so I could give him the 3 Propector regions in the mountains. And then he had to gift them back to me - one at a time.

    It's probably done so that you can't give the AI a settlement and build a perimeter of AI factions around yourself or something... but meh, whatever.

    What I *really* like however are the outpost.
    Damn, that is fun.
    Too bad that you can't build multiples for the same ally, the extra troops they get to defend as well as the mix of units you can get is just so much fun.

    Getting artillery with factions that lack them is just fantastic.
    Basically any combination whatsoever is great. Even if you don't have the red tree to buff them.
    Getting Mammoths and Ratling Guns in my Warriors of Chaos armies is great fun, and the fact you can't buff them and get limited amounts of them means both balance and fun are intact. It's quite a well implemented feature.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

    The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.

  12. #2652
    Finished my VC campaign. The first time I conquered the entire map in WH games. By the end the extra Diffusion of Magic upkeep of extra armies alone was more than 60k per turn and more than half of my 45 armies were ravaging Cathay. I also managed to confederate Ghorst after threatening him. He gives some great buffs. The zombie army I made with him was hilarious. Although given how his home territory that gives instant 8 rank zombies thanks to its special building is an inhospitable terrain for any other VC faction, it took 2 turns to recruit a batch of zombies and I needed multiple to fill the army (actually, not even the entire army, since I didn't want to wait extra two turns for just three more units, so I global-recruited some crabs from my Vampire Coast ally and a piece of artillery from Skaven).

    Unfortunately by the time I could field him anywhere near an enemy he only got one fight of action, but it was amazing anyway. An army of mostly zombies with something around 1800 units in total and I still obliterated two pretty decent Cathay armies of over 2500 units. And all the zombies ended the fight with all units and at full health. Ghorst himself also dealt almost 30k damage without even having the Wind of Death (the way the AI built him before the confederation was somewhat questionable in general).

    The special buildings for Vampire Counts, including the Mannfred-specific one in Drakenhoff, are pretty stellar too. I even found some that were unmarked, yet gave some decent goodies. Though once they fix confederation I think Sylvania would be the best option even without Mannfred's bonuses, because of its central location allowing it to reach all the key Vampire Count players much more efficiently. Mannfred starts pretty much at the ass end of the map. And in my campaign at least the AI declarations of war drew me even further south from there after I dealt with the Tomb Kings and local humans, while the Orcs and Skarbrand were preoccupied with each other, with other actors in that region wanting to be my allies instead.

    By the time I reached the main ordertide territories and their whereabouts Mousillon, The Silver Host and Lahmian Sisterhood were already gone. Not to mention Templehof and Waldenhof (I'm not sure if this one even is in Immortal Empires) were steamrolled by Vlad. Strigoi Empire also got destroyed before I could help it, despite being much closer to me, but Repanse was an ass and Kadon was too stupid to accept my diplomatic deals. And even though the other factions were still alive, because of the current issues with confederation I only grabbed Necrarch Brotherhood, the new Sires of Mourkain faction and Ghorst after I threatened him. Other major factions couldn't even be threatened (despite the fact that Kemmler was even weaker than Ghorst) and Jiangxi Rebels wanted nothing to do with me other than a trade treaty, because by the time I spotted them I had treaties with all Cathay factions going on for like 50 turns.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2022-09-09 at 06:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  13. #2653
    Just checking what everyone thinks, so I can build up settlements better.

    What factions have good ways to generate money like Bretonnia?
    The economic game of Bretonnia is so strong that I always fall back to them when I start campaigns. They are exceptionally good alliance partners as well as even minor bretonnia-factions that own just one province will churn out like 4 full armies of "trash" (that each are strong enough in auto resolve or as a supporting army). With the change to supply lines it's not as insane as it was before but being able to turn every minor settlement into a gold generating powerhouse while also increasing growth and recruitment slots to absolutely insane levels.

    I noticed that HE has a new mechanic that grants them extra income when their public order is at 100%. They are obvioulsy a strong choice as well as it's not as difficult to do that and as long as you can trade of your elven trinkets, the money should keep flowing into your treasury

    But what about the Cathay for example? Kislev? Can they compete on that part of the game? Or any other worthy mention?
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2022-09-08 at 05:45 AM.

  14. #2654
    Kislev has terrible economy, at least that's how I feel. Outside of Kislev itself, Erengrad and Praag their settlements have low return of investments. It takes 15 turns and 11,500g to fully upgrade the generic income building, and that allows you to generate 300g a turn and some extra tradeables which start to scale late game. So, if by some miracle you have enough cash and growth to upgrade this building ASAP, after these 15 turns you still are about 8800g in the red from the investment, and that's another 30 turns.

    Still, in the middle game you should have enough devotion to finish turns with the Dazh invocation, and with special income building these three major Kislev cities have, some low impact technologies, you should have enough multipliers for all your buildings for them to not suck. I suppose Kostaltyn has the best economy in the Immortal Empires, since he starts in Erengrad which has a sweet landmark port, as Boris (in IE as well) you will have to make do with Kossar stacks for a long time (or free stacks of sleds), because 90% of your adjacent zones are yellow (but luckily just half-yellow, since Chaos Wastes have less debuffs than regular unpleasant areas), and you won't be able to afford anything better. And Kislev, even in IE, has very hectic begininngs with all the Chaos, rats, and orcs. In my opinion, Kislev could use a trim on these economy buildings, because for each settlement tier you have a yet another level of the income building that costs a ton for a small gain.

    Cathay on the other hand has a somewhat nicer economy, especially if you are patient with land battles, and treat caravans with care. Get two caravan lords, take units every time you are given the opportunity, don't autoresolve, avoid pissing off the ogres, level lords for shortcuts, and you'll be golden. Maintain yin/yang balance in the empire and that should take care of margins. Haven't played Cathay in the IE yet, but I imagine they have calmer starts.

    On the other races, I heard Norsca are now economic powerhouses with bonkers ports and multipliers from allegiances, and they are no longer ruined by supply lines. Vampire Coast had some wierd economic schenanigans before 2.1, but their ports too should be fine. I imagine Wood Elves with their trees, massive post-battle cash, and smaller supply lines costs should have a comfortable time as well. Nakai has now a dedicated tech line to get more cash from his vassal, and that can get crazy (in fact, because of that I learned that there is a preprogrammed income cap on vassal tributes). Reworked Warriors of Chaos, if you rush Dark Fortresses, are no problem at all.

    Dark elves no longer have their easily exploitable spreadsheet, but dunno how it is working out currently, as they are rather low on my playthrough to-do-list. Dwarfs should be decent-ish, especially since their biggest problem was always the growth, but yeah - I imagine after elf nerfs, it is Bretonnia's time to be a top tier economy.

  15. #2655
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Just checking what everyone thinks, so I can build up settlements better.

    What factions have good ways to generate money like Bretonnia?
    The economic game of Bretonnia is so strong that I always fall back to them when I start campaigns. They are exceptionally good alliance partners as well as even minor bretonnia-factions that own just one province will churn out like 4 full armies of "trash" (that each are strong enough in auto resolve or as a supporting army). With the change to supply lines it's not as insane as it was before but being able to turn every minor settlement into a gold generating powerhouse while also increasing growth and recruitment slots to absolutely insane levels.

    I noticed that HE has a new mechanic that grants them extra income when their public order is at 100%. They are obvioulsy a strong choice as well as it's not as difficult to do that and as long as you can trade of your elven trinkets, the money should keep flowing into your treasury

    But what about the Cathay for example? Kislev? Can they compete on that part of the game? Or any other worthy mention?
    Kislev economy is weak outside of their 3 Great Cities. Which I find off TBH, they should be able to convert major cities into their own or something like that. But I guess it does encourage you to remain within Kislev itself which is true to their fluff. You can sort of have a decent economy by spamming Maidens with +income in Erengrad to have one powerhouse of a city (don't lose it!) but it's still way worse than, say, the nuts income Norsca and Vampirates make from ports, or how much money Warriors of Chaos make from Dark Fortresses and vassal tributes. IMO Kislev is the one race that feels tailor made for the Realm of Chaos campaign and not that well designed for IE.

    Cathay is just fine. Their settlements are decent, caravans make a lot of gold until they start to scale poorly in the lategame (by which point you have tons of cash anyway), manage your Ying/Yang, trade with everyone who wants to which is a lot of people and you'll be fine. You have a lot more Cathay to grab in IE in the first place anyway, the land is at least twice as big there as in Realm of Chaos for whatever reason.

    Since Supply Lines are no longer ruinous I don't feel like anyone has a bad enough economy that it truly handicaps them. Obviously some will be better than others on that front but it's not as wild as in WH2 where elves and dwarfs were literally swimming in gold and spamming all the armies while Norsca was happy to be able to field 2 full stacks from owning all of their homeland and WoC were meme-tier.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

    The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.

  16. #2656
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Since Supply Lines are no longer ruinous I don't feel like anyone has a bad enough economy that it truly handicaps them. Obviously some will be better than others on that front but it's not as wild as in WH2 where elves and dwarfs were literally swimming in gold and spamming all the armies while Norsca was happy to be able to field 2 full stacks from owning all of their homeland and WoC were meme-tier.

    Yeah I guess.
    But some factions have trouble developing the regions you expanded towards and that just doesn't feel all that good.
    Not being able to afford buildings when I have free building slots or could upgrade them makes me feel unsatisfied.

    Now, with the settlement trade it's got a lot better because I can just trade them off and get them back when I want or even create alliances due to that.
    Sometimes, the start position is rather poor compared to others as well.
    Volkmar for example has a much easier time to develop and expand than Golden Boy and the Prince Emperor. Not to mention the fact that Volkmar is able to turn T1 units into absolute killing machines and it's overall just easier to play as.
    I can't seem to get a good empire economy rolling with the Reiklands Lords... I don't like attacking my own factions or other order factions like Bretonnia and the VC lands seem so disconnected and far away, and there are are potential backstabbers everywhere (lots of orcs, elves etc.). Ugh.

  17. #2657
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Yeah I guess.
    But some factions have trouble developing the regions you expanded towards and that just doesn't feel all that good.
    Not being able to afford buildings when I have free building slots or could upgrade them makes me feel unsatisfied.

    Now, with the settlement trade it's got a lot better because I can just trade them off and get them back when I want or even create alliances due to that.
    Sometimes, the start position is rather poor compared to others as well.
    Volkmar for example has a much easier time to develop and expand than Golden Boy and the Prince Emperor. Not to mention the fact that Volkmar is able to turn T1 units into absolute killing machines and it's overall just easier to play as.
    I can't seem to get a good empire economy rolling with the Reiklands Lords... I don't like attacking my own factions or other order factions like Bretonnia and the VC lands seem so disconnected and far away, and there are are potential backstabbers everywhere (lots of orcs, elves etc.). Ugh.
    Yeah, Reikland/Golden Order probably need a small overhaul somewhere down the line, but I'd say the Empire's slow start at home fits their lore. The Emperor isn't supposed to run around conquering his own empire. I'd like them to expand on existing systems like Outposts and loaned armies for any Empire rework; allow you to seize control of armies from the Elector Counts and fight battles on their behalf easily, so you can directly help them vs say Festus. Allow you to build Outposts in their cities to greatly beef up garrisons and siphon some income out of them. You know, generally increasing interactions with the AI minors so you aren't forced to sit helpless as they collapse.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

    The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.

  18. #2658
    Does Irrepresible only increase lord replinishment rate, or lord's army replenishment rate?
    The wording is funky, I can't really tell

    "casuality replinishment rate +30% for this lord - (Lord's Army)

    edit: Oh geez, seems like the game is crashing left and right in multiplayer. Too bad... hope they'll fix it soon.
    Extortion is instant crash, diplomacy events in general cause them all the time.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2022-09-11 at 02:56 PM.

  19. #2659
    I thought the Mannfred start was annoying due to how much various factions ganged up on me, but damn, playing Chaos is something else. Every two turns three factions declare war on me. Admittedly that was only after I conquered most of Norsca, but I'd still appreciate it if they could fuck off for one moment. Even goddamn Skaven break their treaties with me and then attack me when the timer runs out. At least the Wood Elves and Orcs peaced out without even fighting. So after way too much time I can finally test out the ability to transform human lords into Demon Princes, because once I mop down Vlad, Bel'akor will be in prime human real estate.

    Unfortunately until now his army kept getting dragged to some annoying fights against random BS on my borders. I almost got a chance to test it with Kislev, but just as I had one more turn to reach two of their armies at once, they got double-teamed by Wood Elves and Skaven. And even though I did kill their last tiny army, that was after they already lost their final settlement, which meant the faction got destroyed after that fight, which I suppose broke the code of spawning the Demon Princes from humans. Either that or it doesn't work on Kislev at all for some reason.

    I'm loving the general WoC mechanics though. So much stuff and so much customization. The gifts, gifted units, authority, the lord/hero upgrades, the different variants of each unit, the upgrade system for units, the unique settlement system, the ability to confederate other LLs by conquering them even if they have significantly different mechanics (for Be'lakor and, IIRC, Archaon). Just stellar. The systems shared with the demon factions for god-specific WoC factions are also fun and I'll try them out for sure down the line. Probably Valkia or Azazel first.

    But the unit upgrade and sidegrade systems are my favorite parts. It surprised me how different some of the god-specific variants of the same unit feel from each other. The roster is pretty great in general. And the upgrade is just awesome. It's actually how I wanted RoRs to work for a while. Like you could upgrade a level 9 unit to a RoR variant (if it has one). You could limit multiplayer armies to only have 1 copy of a given RoR, but I doubt an doomstack with 19 Claws of Nagash would break much in the campaign compared to a doomstack of standard Mortis Engines.

    And now that I've looped this to Vampire Counts, man, do their mechanics feel lacking after playing WoC. They don't really have anything aside from the Blood Kiss mechanic and once you recruit all the lords from that any additional Blood Kisses do nothing (I had like 150 accumulated by the end of my previous campaign). Only Mannfred has something extra with the Books of Nagash.

    So given how we've got a shit-barrage of Chaos LLs already, I think once Nagash is released (which I'm fairly sure will happen), I wouldn't mind LLs for the other Bloodlines. We already have NPC factions for them all on the map. Two for Lahmians and Strigoi each, even. Lahmians could have something to do with manipulating other factions, perhaps somewhere between Slaanesh and Tzeench on the scale of faction interaction. And also a reverse Arkhan situation if their LL is Neferata, where she can recruit certain Tomb Kings units.

    Stirgoi could be trying to reforge the Strigos Empire, with some fanciful bonuses for recapturing key settlements. They could also have something about placating the living populace with more just rule compared to other Bloodlines, in line with some of the more famous Strigoi rulers. Necrachs could be more magic focused and maybe have a take on the laboratory of Clan Moulder, with the ability to create Patchwork Men. And Blood Dragons could have some perversion of Bretonnia mechanics, since most of the famous Blood Dragons settled in that region.

    Vlad/Isabella should also get something, obviously. Which would be the Blood Knight bit, just with Empire. Having Sylvania recognized as an elector province, becoming the emperor, stuff like that. Perhaps something more on top of that, since this is a relatively small area so you'd fulfill the goal of that mechanic quite quickly. The same applies to the Blood Dragons and perhaps even the Strigoi (although for them I already gave some additional venue to address). Not sure what the mechanics for the necromancer LLs could be, though.

    As for Nagash himself, he could have the ability to appoint (either through diplomacy or through force) undead LLs from other factions to become his Mortarchs, which would give them additional boons. Perhaps with different boons for each Mortarch, since they did have different titles.

    This update would also be a great opportunity to introduce the missing units, mounts and heroes from the Vampire Count roster. Grave Guard with halberds, Abyssal Terrors, Cairn Wraith heroes, Spirit Hosts, the aforementioned Patchwork Men and Coven Thrones. Also, even though it's technically Age of Sigmar unit, I wouldn't mind Bloodseker Palanquins (different ultimate chariots for different roles, to cover for the already great Mortis Engine's weaknesses). And for Nagash's faction specifically, also Morghasts and Dread Abyssals.


    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Does Irrepresible only increase lord replinishment rate, or lord's army replenishment rate?
    The wording is funky, I can't really tell

    "casuality replinishment rate +30% for this lord - (Lord's Army)
    That's for the lord. The (Lord's Army) is there to show it's not a global buff and only works for that specific army's lord.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  20. #2660
    Campaign complete as Archaon. 140 turns in, Empire, Bretonnia, Nehekrara, and Ulthuan are in ruins. Cathay isnt doing too hot. Only Lustria stands but it's inhabited mostly by small Lizardmen factions and Markus so I don't wanna bother. I feel like my job as Everchosen is basically done. The Greenskins crisis slowed me down a lot but I figured the trick; Greater Daemons and Chaos Knights. All those Black Orcs, Giants and Arachnaroks still get their face pounded by my heavy hitters and poor Greenskins morale and cavalry meant my Knights had their pick when it came to demolishing flanks and routing units. I had tons of fun tossing the RoR Skullcrushers at things and shattering entire squads of elite infantry in one charge. All in all it was the most fun challenge of the campaign by several metrics. In future campaigns I'll likely make it spawn sooner. Disable the WE one tho, I really don't want to deal with endless stacks of those fuckers.

    The parts I didn't like were the non-crisis AI's passivity and weakness. I played VH Campaign and Hard (switched to VH) battles and the challenge wasn't overly present to be honest. Once I got the ball rolling in the Chaos Wastes Kislev and the Empire fell quite fast, Throgg and norscan minors had done half the job by the time I got there even. Bretonnia was harder due to the WEs helping (I didn't go there actually, invading Athel Loren is the worst and Grom smacked them for me later, thanks Grom). Ulthuan put up a lot more of a fight with stack after stack of decent units but by that time I had mostly defeated the crisis and rocking armies upon armies of Chosen, Knights, Daemons and Shaggoths with leveled Lords that fought like LLs or could evaporate armies with magic.

    Sieges and minor settlement battles were also too common and while I don't hate the siege rework as others do it definitely starts feeling older in IE where you conquer loads of places than in Realm of Chaos where you're encouraged to turtle. I autoresolved a lot of them to be honest. Siege equipement is more pointless than ever when I can delete walls with a cheap ability, click at the point(s) with my army, and watch them butcher everything on the way with not too much fuss.

    Aside from that it's been a blast. The WoC rework is stellar, 10/10 work from CA. Despite what I said the race itself doesn't seem THAT strong, certainly not as OP as Beastmen for instance as your recruiting capabilities are somewhat limited. But once you get your armies rolling there's so much flavor and customization on offer, in terms of offering fun options for generic Lords and heroes WoC has every other race crushed which is good when most of your battles in the mid-late game are likely done by non-LL armies. And the Gifts of Chaos mechanic is just great, it feels very balanced as I never had too little souls but also never felt like I was swimming in them as lots of cool stuff cost a lot of souls.

    The map is awesome. It's so darn big and much more representative of the world than Mortal Empire's or Realm of Chaos. Cathay is a standout too, it's beautiful as ever and huge now with tons of factions making it fun to fight in. The new systems work very well in the combined campaign; recruiting Mammoths. Skin-Wolves and Skaven weapon teams for my weaker armies evened the odds a lot. New diplomacy and vassals are much better than in WH2. It's just a great sandbox.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

    The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •