Can Blizz make raid trash more epic/fun?

[Serissa]

I'd rather have less trash, it's just an annoyance that needs to get cleared. Not necessarily no trash, because then people would start bitching and moaning like they did about ToC, but less(time consuming) trash would be nice.
Now, trash that previews boss abilities I'm okay with(although it still shouldn't have as silly amounts of health as some of the stuff in BRF).

Dat guy speek da truf.

[Captainn]

Less trash is always better. Time consuming doesn't equal fun

[Aurora]

Trash is a pointless concept and an activity nobody enjoys or wants. There are many other ways to provide spacing between bosses without trash or RP, not sure why puzzles or even basic switch mechanics are a complete non-entity in WoW but it'd certainly be preferable to trash. Why do we never see things like "theres an ice wall here - use fire to break", "narrow space to a switch here - send a pet in to attack it", "Floor is booby trapped - Disarm", "magic inhibitors prevent spell casting - send in the physical dps to break them". There are so many things they could do then just the usual wave of mobs.

Failing that I'm fine with TOC.

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I'd rather have less trash, it's just an annoyance that needs to get cleared. Not necessarily no trash, because then people would start bitching and moaning like they did about ToC, but less(time consuming) trash would be nice.
Now, trash that previews boss abilities I'm okay with(although it still shouldn't have as silly amounts of health as some of the stuff in BRF).

People bitched and moaned about ToC trash because it was seen as the latest in a long line of changes to the game for the sake of simplification and being more inclusive to casuals, any change that made any aspect of the game more convenient was greeted with the same shrugs and sneers from the TBC "elite". I don't remember the same people celebrating Ruby Sanctum for having half an hour worth of trash that needed to be pulled carefully and cc'd explicitly all for the reward of a single boss. They shouldn't have been given attention and the game shouldn't have been held back to appease them, this was the biggest mistake they made with cataclysm.

[Wildtree]

Factually, nothing has changed at all with the trash. Other than it became less.
What changed is the mindset of the dungeon community...
Both, 5 man and raid instances have been something exciting once.
Everything thrown at the player in there added to the feel of the place.
Today, the community is a lot different, and not interested in the fantasy part itself...
Fuck, one could just go ahead and line up the bosses in a string event on empty platforms, without any decoration.
Then have the group just hop from one loot pinata to the next.

And I believe the root of that problem is the 5 man dungeons. Ever since mobs became ignorable and chain pulling became the norm, the community mindset changed over time and trash is just an unwanted obstacle.

[MegaVolti]

They already tried a raid without trash.
It was not a success, it was the worst raid ever imo

It was widely considered to not be a good raid, however, I found it one of the most enjoyable raids ever.
Not only was the lack of trash totally awesome, the boss fights were unique and fun, too. I wish we had more PvP bosses and more raids like ToC. Good times!

Ever since mobs became ignorable and chain pulling became the norm, the community mindset changed over time and trash is just an unwanted obstacle.

It's called "trash". Ever since it got that nickname trash mobs habe been an unwanted obstacle. That's why they got called trash.
And they got called trash pretty much since the game exists.

[Wildtree]

People bitched and moaned about ToC trash

How do you complain about trash that isn't even there?
ToC has no trash.

[unbound]

I mean... during SSC (TBC)... fighting trash was kind of tense. I focused, it was kind of exciting. Now a day in Highmaul and BRF... I want to afk while the rest of the raid fight the trash. I dread fighting the trash. I just want to fight the boss. What's the big deal jesus. Can Blizz make the trash more exciting agem to fight?

Two major problems with trying to set up BC style trash:
- Current majority player base won't accept (too many are just looking for big bosses and shiny drops).
- Blizz isn't interested in making very many interesting things. The current state of the game is to run the same content over and over again with a difficulty slider for new shiny drops.

[Wildtree]

It's called "trash". Ever since it got that nickname trash mobs habe been an unwanted obstacle. That's why they got called trash.
And they got called trash pretty much since the game exists.

The mob was first called that..... mob....
Trash mob.. because it wasn't a boss, it doesn't have boss mechanics, doesn't provide a higher loot table.

It was still part of the fantasy feel.
Shall we mention ZG? The armies of mob in there? That provided a feel.
Kara, the dance hall and banquet rooms...... That provided a feeling and atmosphere.

It is what it is..... today's wow community is different from the old one.
The old one actually enjoyed the entirety of the instances, and not just the bosses

[MasterHamster]

[Addressing posts about removing trash]
ToC taught us and the devs that yes, raids should and needs to have trash for pacing.

However, newer trash suffers the same thing as many other things in the game, that your success is guaranteed. Only major mistakes are going to cause anything close to a wipe. Guaranteed success = boredom.

[Sunnydee]

I mean... during SSC (TBC)... fighting trash was kind of tense. I focused, it was kind of exciting. Now a day in Highmaul and BRF... I want to afk while the rest of the raid fight the trash. I dread fighting the trash. I just want to fight the boss. What's the big deal jesus. Can Blizz make the trash more exciting agem to fight?

Yhats beacuse you cleared trash for 8+ years in the same way, and i can promise you theres NOTHING blizzard can do about this.

[Wildtree]

Yhats beacuse you cleared trash for 8+ years in the same way, and i can promise you theres NOTHING blizzard can do about this.

What they could do would not be welcomed....
Picture the idea how the group can't simply enter the next room like that.. Instead has to use things like cc and kiting, and stuff to pick the trash group in parts one mob at a time. That'll work a week or two, and then the QQ about the "time sink" starts.

[Armbre]

A raid can still be full of life and npcs just make them neutral so you can kill them for a chance at a gear drop or just skip them raids should be more focused on boss fights rather than wasting time

[Grahamington]

Sounds like this guy really loved TOGC. NO TRASH AT ALL!

I liked the first trash of Uludar. Would be fun to see more things like that.

[Deleted]

ToC handled it best.

[Deleted]

I think trash should be completely removed from LFR. As it offers no benefit.

[ddsad2212]

The issue is that it's trash, the name references to how enjoyable the content is honestly. They're filler, it is there to fill out the raid.

If they wanted to do this they'd have to design raids on a room by room bases and make each pull a boss or at least a mini boss. Honestly I think that'd be far better and would allow you to make easier bosses be the original "trash" pulls that take say 2-3 tries to down and then the bosses to all be tuned tougher and take a lot more tries to down.

Ofc they'd all need tactics, interesting mechanics and people to be awake and I assume people generally like trash as it's an excuse to fall asleep.

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Sounds like this guy really loved TOGC. NO TRASH AT ALL!

I liked the first trash of Uludar. Would be fun to see more things like that.

The issue with ToC is that it felt small due to this, and also it's bosses were horribly designed. Trash is honestly worthless additions to the raid, if they were made harder, dropped actual loot and had interesting mechanics (mini bosses in Wildstar for example) I think they'd be a lot more enjoyable

[Grahamington]

The issue is that it's trash, the name references to how enjoyable the content is honestly. They're filler, it is there to fill out the raid.

If they wanted to do this they'd have to design raids on a room by room bases and make each pull a boss or at least a mini boss. Honestly I think that'd be far better and would allow you to make easier bosses be the original "trash" pulls that take say 2-3 tries to down and then the bosses to all be tuned tougher and take a lot more tries to down.

Ofc they'd all need tactics, interesting mechanics and people to be awake and I assume people generally like trash as it's an excuse to fall asleep.

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The issue with ToC is that it felt small due to this, and also it's bosses were horribly designed. Trash is honestly worthless additions to the raid, if they were made harder, dropped actual loot and had interesting mechanics (mini bosses in Wildstar for example) I think they'd be a lot more enjoyable

I never said I liked TOGC layout haha. I hated that crappy excuse for a raid. However, I'd rather have something like that(It was pretty much a filler for how long it was taking ICC to be done) Then sit around with nothing but SoO for 15 Months. haha. I never played wildstar though so idk what that's like.

[Nami]

The trash in the first room of Bastion of Twilight comes to mind. Everyone hated it but I thought it was fun.

[Grahamington]

The trash in the first room of Bastion of Twilight comes to mind. Everyone hated it but I thought it was fun.

I remember doing trash runs of that for Epics. Now I just solo that room for Embersilk. lol

[Gadzooks]

Ideally, raid trash before each boss will preview some of the abilities you have to deal with in the upcoming boss, which is actually done sometimes. Trash such as that actually serves a purpose.

But, sometimes it is just a AoE zergfest, which I suppose is just how it is.

This was what I was going to comment on - the trash before General Nazgrim in SoO were previews of the trash in the fight itself, which at the time I thought was a really good idea. It gets people familiar with their abilities, how to deal with them, and if it's a raid paying attention, can be used to spot flaws in the makeup and attention span of the raid.

I think games that teach you to play, without you really realizing it's happening is the hallmark of good game design. It's something Blizzard does once in a while, and they really should do more of. That's what class questing was about - teaching you your role and how your class works. The rogue quests to get poisons taught you early on how to stealth, pickpocket, and use poison.

Trash in a raid just to populate a room, like Molten Core, is boring. Trash with a purpose, to preview fight mechanics, or to provide buffs/debuffs, or to drop items needed to continue are more interesting. Or, like the Spoils of Pandaria, using trash as the boss, spread out, is more interesting than "kill 50 mobs just to get to the door". SoO, if you look at it, was playing with all kinds of ideas like that - with the exception of the Shaman, where the trash before you pull them should have previewed what was coming, and the boss fight itself.

Added: Trash can also serve a useful function in the beginning of a raid and in between fights to get people warmed up, back into the saddles so to speak, but they shouldn't be as time consuming and hard as a boss fight. Okay, maybe throw in an outlier like the snails in ToT for fun, but for the most part, make it easy and quick to get people warmed up and focused. Old raids like MC and the endless patrols and trash packs of ZG should never happen again.