Pokemon, Part 2

[rarhyx]

for me personally the downfall began with gen 5 (pseudo reboot . don't like most of the artwork of the mons itself)
gen 6 was cool but XY were really short and felt like you need only 5 hours to complete the whole game (on a sidenote: I don't like megas)
ORAS was cool but was missing key features from emerald
about gen 7: i played like 2 or 3 hours and couldn't force myself to play more (and don't like this super duper ultra mega awesome special moves)
as for gen 8: don't have a switch and I dont like the idea of gigamax thing, if there's an emulator that I can run I will give it a shot

but I'm realistic I think I grew out of this franchise it was fun and I have some of my best memories with pokemon but I think my journey is over (atleast for now)

[Ðemonhuntr]

for me personally the downfall began with gen 5 (pseudo reboot . don't like most of the artwork of the mons itself)
gen 6 was cool but XY were really short and felt like you need only 5 hours to complete the whole game (on a sidenote: I don't like megas)
ORAS was cool but was missing key features from emerald
about gen 7: i played like 2 or 3 hours and couldn't force myself to play more (and don't like this super duper ultra mega awesome special moves)
as for gen 8: don't have a switch and I dont like the idea of gigamax thing, if there's an emulator that I can run I will give it a shot

but I'm realistic I think I grew out of this franchise it was fun and I have some of my best memories with pokemon but I think my journey is over (atleast for now)

Gen 5 isnt my favorite either. But gen 6 was pretty good for me, it got a lot of attention on YT its when a lot of the battles/leagues happened here as well. Gen 7 was a step down for me but i could appreciate the attempt to do something different with the island trials, and regional forms are one of my favorite concepts but overall didnt quite work out for me. Gen 8 wasnt that bad either it was just the pokedex drama that really left a foul taste in my mouth, and im still dissapointed in my own morals for getting it but i had fun playing it.

I'm still very much into pokemon, not on a daily all the time basis but i enjoy content around it. I feel like it is getting less and less over time tho, so I'm really hoping something pulls me back in. Heck as much as i dont agree with the art style of the DP remakes if the features are good im more than willing to give it a try. If its literally just copy/paste gen 4 with chibis and a restricted pokedex for 60€ thats gonna be a hard nono

[Jester Joe]

You should be very careful and lower your tone when speaking to others in this forum and thread, specifically. The majority of the posters in this thread have a history with both this thread and the pokemon franchise for over a decade. Your quoting and jabs only make you seem like an apologist that is afraid of criticism of something they love.

Do not insult others and never try any cheap tricks to diminish their points. No one person with history here is looking kindly on what you've been doing and saying in this thread. @Lahis especially is a dedicated, avid and huge fan of the pokemon franchise as well as an artist.

Take care.

Don't confuse hate for passion. At some point you have to reevaluate whether you actually enjoy the product or not anymore, and move on from it if you don't.

I mean, I say that as someone who's been playing since Yellow was my first game that I owned. Jumping to conclusions about a game that isn't even out yet and talking about it as if what you say is the absolute rule just serves to annoy people honestly.

[Nelavar]

You should be very careful and lower your tone when speaking to others in this forum and thread, specifically. The majority of the posters in this thread have a history with both this thread and the pokemon franchise for over a decade. Your quoting and jabs only make you seem like an apologist that is afraid of criticism of something they love.

Do not insult others and never try any cheap tricks to diminish their points. No one person with history here is looking kindly on what you've been doing and saying in this thread. @Lahis especially is a dedicated, avid and huge fan of the pokemon franchise as well as an artist.

Take care.

It would perhaps be wise to refrain from speaking for other people. Nothing he's said so far has been unreasonable to my eyes and I even agree that some of Lahis' arguments are going off the rails, they have been since Sw/Sh really.

Your, mine or anyone's history with Pokemon or this thread means jack shit really. May I suggest engaging with the argument instead of trying to police language and tone?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I started with Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2 and Pokemon Snap on the Nintendo 64. I played the crap out of Stadium 2. I went on summer vacation and played a friend's Sapphire cartridge, and then got a Gameboy Advance and a Sapphire cartridge of my own, and played the crap out of that. Then got Pokemon Colosseum and XD on Gamecube and played the crap out of those. That was when I started becoming a super serious Pokemon nerd who bought strategy guides and the Pokedex books and religiously watched the anime.

Gen 5 is my favorite for the story, the art, the characters, the music, and the difficult gameplay (tied with Colosseum as the hardest Pokemon game IMO), but it is undeniable that the problems began here, with the removal of the Battle Frontier, and the degradation in world design. Still, BW was the first time I started getting really into online competitive play, spending a lot of time planning out my teams, breeding for the right natures and egg moves, and so on. The monthly tournaments with different gimmicky rules breathed a lot of fun into it. XY had pretty much no content outside of the 15 hour long story, but I still had enough enthusasim back then to keep playing the crap out of the game raising my teams and doing the tournies. Also started visiting Serebii.net and reading fanfiction there a lot and discussions.

Sun & Moon was when I started getting really disillusioned with the franchise. The game was crippled with problems. Mega-evolutions were sidelined, with most of the stones being available from the battle frontier, or completely unavailable at all without a mystery gift or hacking the game. No new megas were added. All of the Alolan forms were for gen 1 Pokemon. The developers paid lip service to the idea of dithcing the gyms + Pokemon league format, with the game being basically the same thing as usual. Story usually isn't a problem in Pokemon games, because usually even if the story is meh, you can easily skip through it, but SM had a tremendous amount of mandatory, unskippable cutscenes, and spend a huge amount of time saying very little (if you want a good Pokemon story, look at Colosseum and BW said so much with so few cutscenes!). I also wasn't really fond of the idea that the first release of a generation was basically a beta test for an improve version that might come a year later.

I also wasn't as enthused with the overall Pokemon franchise around the time S&M came out. I sort of fell off the anime train when the BW anime was airing, but then XY happened and was shaping up to be really promising. I thought that it was on par with the original series. And then, during the leadup to XYZ, they were really hyping up Ash finally winning. But then you got that stupid, stupid, stupid ending where Greninja's water shuriken inexplicably lost to charizard's blast burn!? And then Serena was dumped just like every other Pokegirl, never to be seen again. There was just so much build up but they never delievered. After that, I was in a pretty foul mood about the anime. I appreciate that the S&M anime did something different, but Ash winning a League based off a rules technicality - with his weakest team - feels insulting.

When SwSh was announced, I wasn't particularly thrilled. Okay, yet ANOTHER grass/fire/water starter trio, more gyms... yadda yadda yadda. If the last game had been HGSS or BW, which was the same formula but executed well, maybe I would have been more excited. But the last game was S&M so I wasn't really hopeful. And then the more I started hearing about the dex was being cut, I decided I wasn't going to get it (and haven't gotten it yet). And then the game released and the true depths of GameFreak's ineptitude was revealed, with a buggy final boss fight, datamining revealing that literally all of the Pokemon models were copy-pasted from gens 6 and 7 (meaning that no dex cut was necessary, but we knew that from the get go when people analyzed trailers and screenshots and called GameFreak out on their dex bullshit). Gameplay was awful, and so on. And the removal of Megas really dampened my enthusasim. Why care about any new forms like Dynamax if they are just going to be thrown away come next gen? And then the DLC really irritated me, adding content that they had removed back into the game (extensive postgame content stopped being a thing after gen 4) really rubbed me the wrong way.

So I've been sort of limbo regarding Pokemon for the past 2-3 years. Only thing I really did was watch the Detective Pikachu movie (which was mediocre) and the Power of Us movie (which was legit good, go watch it!). I was hoping that radio silence after SwSh was indicative of reformation behind the scenes, but so far I have no hope.

[Poppincaps]

I feel like I'm in a limbo with Pokemon as well. I enjoyed Sword and Shield, but I'd say that's more of a credit to how inherently fun the Pokemon formula is rather than the quality of the games themselves, but the removal of the National Dex really killed my enthusiasm to play the games beyond the story. Why would I spend 10 hours grinding for a shiny Charizard if I don't even know if I can take him into the next Pokemon game?

I started to look at Pokemon with a much more critical eye as a result. I may not have liked Sun and Moon, but they were at least trying and I feel like they put the appropriate amount of effort in, but with Sword and Shield it was clear that corners were cut. Unless something drastic changes I'm going to be skipping the Diamond and Pearl remakes. I think Diamond and Pearl hold up well to this day and the graphical improvements of SP/BD are not enough to sway me.

I'm also going to wait for reviews on Pokemon Legends: Arceus. I respect them taking the games in a new direction, but I feel like all of their experiments result in failure. The S/M trials weren't successful and the Wild Area was pretty unsuccessful too (although the wild areas in the DLC were better). Ultimately though, I'm waiting for the next generation of Pokemon. If they bring back the national dex and add in some of the features that people have been wanting for a long time, then I'm all in again, but if not, I'm out. I can't play a series that progressively takes away features and doesn't listen to their fanbase.

[Sorrowseer]

I kinda hoped shield/sword would have a difficulty setting, it felt way too easy to me that staying in an area just seemed like over powering the next content.

Outside of Eternatus, who looks like somebody chewed and "passed" glass and then called it a dragon all designs in the galar-dex seem pretty straight-forward and understandable. Which one confuses you?

Looking through the pokedex and it looks to all fit when they are lined up together x) but I just kept feeling as I was playing when a new random lump of ice with eyes or a box shaped insect popped up how odd they looked considering the environment. Then again the pokedex is in 2d, which makes it look better,though it just erg like I know some are random'artifacts' with spirits in or a pile of mud/trash/candy etc with a soul so... sigh

[Zmagoslav]

[QUOTE=Sorrowseer;53050076]I kinda hoped shield/sword would have a difficulty setting, it felt way too easy to me that staying in an area just seemed like over powering the next content. [QUOTE]
I can feel you there. The removal of "turning off XP-share" really hurt the user experience of those who want to explore each nook and crany of the map before moving in.
When 1st playing trough it i stayed in the wild-area for a few hours, doing dens. I seem to recall having a Tyranitar by the time i beat Kabu... (it didn't listen to my orders, but that hardly mattered). In hindsight i caused this on myself, but other pokemon I didn't use the XP boosters on also outleveled the content.

Looking through the pokedex and it looks to all fit when they are lined up together x) but I just kept feeling as I was playing when a new random lump of ice with eyes or a box shaped insect popped up how odd they looked considering the environment. Then again the pokedex is in 2d, which makes it look better,though it just erg like I know some are random'artifacts' with spirits in or a pile of mud/trash/candy etc with a soul so... sigh

The odd thing is; we had those all along... we just didn't notice it.

[Lahis]

0I think Diamond and Pearl hold up well to this day and the graphical improvements of SP/BD are not enough to sway me.

What graphical improvements?

They're going out of their way to avoid graphical improvements, despite the colossal jump in platform.

[Sorrowseer]

[QUOTE=Zmagoslav;53050781][QUOTE=Sorrowseer;53050076]I kinda hoped shield/sword would have a difficulty setting, it felt way too easy to me that staying in an area just seemed like over powering the next content.

I can feel you there. The removal of "turning off XP-share" really hurt the user experience of those who want to explore each nook and crany of the map before moving in.
When 1st playing trough it i stayed in the wild-area for a few hours, doing dens. I seem to recall having a Tyranitar by the time i beat Kabu... (it didn't listen to my orders, but that hardly mattered). In hindsight i caused this on myself, but other pokemon I didn't use the XP boosters on also outleveled the content.


The odd thing is; we had those all along... we just didn't notice it.

Pretty much, i think just seeing them in 3d so much and with so little variance (like a thousand dogs irl no two are likely to look the exact same) has caused like a perception... anomoly or something, so some seemed super weird to see but when I look around it does make more sene.

[Darththeo]

What graphical improvements?

They're going out of their way to avoid graphical improvements, despite the colossal jump in platform.

They are factually improved from the DS. That is a fact. That's what they were talking about.

Also, they are decent graphics. You don't have to like the style, but to claim they are objectively poor graphics is false.
There is a difference between bad and something you dislike.

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I can feel you there. The removal of "turning off XP-share" really hurt the user experience of those who want to explore each nook and crany of the map before moving in.
When 1st playing trough it i stayed in the wild-area for a few hours, doing dens. I seem to recall having a Tyranitar by the time i beat Kabu... (it didn't listen to my orders, but that hardly mattered). In hindsight i caused this on myself, but other pokemon I didn't use the XP boosters on also outleveled the content.

The XP share always on was terrible. XP candies are OP for leveling.

Those two things make the game easier, but gamefreak was more focused on the PvP aspect. Hence the improvements for that. It is easier to get bottle caps, you can change the nature of your pokemon, the Cram-o-mantic while not great allows you another means to farm items. Then in Crown Tundra, they added the ability patch. Even the OP nature of XP candies fit into this role because to use a bottle cap they need to be lvl 100.

The dex cut makes much more sense if it was about balancing the PvP

[Syegfryed]

The TV in the trailer seems to indicate the story will have something to do with Dynamax energy;

hope not, Dinamax may be one of the dumbest ideas pokemon came up with, i hate megas too but they should at least focus on then that at least can do something making pokemon relevant since they will not change their status

Still waiting the Johto megas that will never happen

[Amnaught]

1) The Games isn't just made by Game Freak. The remakes are developed by ILCA, with Game Freak oversite. So the argument of Game Freak chose something doesn't fully apply, it is another developer making the game, just with Masuda (the Director of the first games, overseeing its development for The Pokemon Company and Game Freak).
2) The game is set to be a faithful remake of the original Diamond and Pearl games ... it cannot be faithful if they have less pokemon than those games had. While this can be a lie on the part of The Pokemon Company, we have no evidence it is.
3) Porygon Z appears in the trailer. Porygon Z is not in the Diamond and Pearl Sinnoh dex.

It is going to have more than 151 pokemon, how many it will have, we do not know. But we do know it is more than 151.

All I know is that I'm gonna be pissed if it has less than 493.

[The Oblivion]

What graphical improvements?

They're going out of their way to avoid graphical improvements, despite the colossal jump in platform.

the clearly shown upgraded graphics. lmfao are you actually pretending they didnt upgrade them? thats delusion.

[Darththeo]

All I know is that I'm gonna be pissed if it has less than 493.

Imo, it should have the 493 that were in DP. Plus Alolan and Galarian forms (where appropriate) and the Galarian evolutions. Alongside the two new Regis and Sylveon.

So, I am hoping (assuming my math is correct) will have 501 pokemon plus alternate forms.

[Immitis]

man some of you guys are being so negative.

legends of arceus seems like the exact pokemon game ive wanted for a long time

revisits a region to see how its different, ive said forever that the best games are hg/ss and gen 5 and part of that is those are the only 2 gens where we get real continuity and see real changes to the world, and it looks like we're going to get a team galactic origin story
doesnt focus on gyms, this was something i really liked about gen 7 but i thought it was executed poorly so im excited to see how it plays out
open world and wild battles that take place in the overworld and the stealth mechanics and being able to just straight up throw balls at pokemon or knock them out and then catch them like the anime

do the gen 4 remakes look kinda goofy? sure but we're getting 2 pokemon games in the span of one year and Id take legends over a remake anyday.

[Zmagoslav]

hope not, Dinamax may be one of the dumbest ideas pokemon came up with, i hate megas too but they should at least focus on then that at least can do something making pokemon relevant since they will not change their status

Still waiting the Johto megas that will never happen

If they were implemented in a way that wouldn't pander to specific fan-favorites only i'd be a fan of megas.

If they had handled them the same way Pokken did, by giving pokemon without a mega form a "synergy burst", which essentially still a stat burst, but comes with a minor heal instead the type/ability change i'd be all for it.

[Erolian]

The only thing that would really make interesting for me at this point would be a difficulty setting that I could turn up a lot or some kind of ng+ mode where I can choose to restart and make the game a lot harder. Obviously the story etc is made for young children and I wouldn't want to take that away since that's what these games really are at this point but I'd appreciate some gameplay option to make the game entertaining for people who actually know how to play

[Val the Moofia Boss]

revisits a region to see how its different

Depends on how much story content there is in the game. Thus far, the trailer seems to emphasize the open world gameplay, rather than any JRPG-esque emphasis on talking to townsfolk NPCs, or a deep dive into a lore, or an indepth storyline. Doesn't help that it seems that the protagonist might be silent... as usual.

it looks like we're going to get a team galactic origin story

Not particularly excited for that. I can't think of any "evil team" that I was interested in. I was interested in a few characters, like Giovanni, or Tabitha, or N, or Ghestis, but the overall teams are forgettable. Plasma was the only one with a remotely interesting ideology. I'm struggling to imagine the villains of this game being anything more than generic mook fodder you fight against. But who knows.

doesnt focus on gyms, this was something i really liked about gen 7 but i thought it was executed poorly so im excited to see how it plays out

I don't get why people keep insisting that S&M was "special" because it didn't have gyms. The gyms were just renamed trials. It's literally the exact same format as before: you get three starts, you go along a linear, railroaded path catching Pokemon and grinding them up, you do a gym/trial with a puzzle, then fight a boss at the end. Rinse repeat 7 or 8 times. Also there is a subplot about fighting evil team mooks, which culminates in a battle with the legendary on the box cover. And then you go to the Elite Four and fight a gauntlet of boss battles and then the final boss and then the end.

do the gen 4 remakes look kinda goofy? sure but we're getting 2 pokemon games in the span of one year and Id take legends over a remake anyday.

True, Legends looks more promising than remakes, but I don't care about the quantity of games. There are more Pokemon fangames in existance than I could ever hope to play. What I want are good games that are worth my time. Whether Legends will be one of them is up in the air.

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The only thing that would really make interesting for me at this point would be a difficulty setting that I could turn up a lot or some kind of ng+ mode where I can choose to restart and make the game a lot harder. Obviously the story etc is made for young children and I wouldn't want to take that away since that's what these games really are at this point but I'd appreciate some gameplay option to make the game entertaining for people who actually know how to play

Yes, a hard mode would be very much appreciated. Especially if it didn't do the cheap thing of just buffing numbers, but instead fights were tuned with strategies and combos so you have to actually think to win. But I stand by my opinion that the default format of turn based 1v1 battles has the inherent problem of being difficult to make challenging. But double battles? That is where it starts getting really interesting.

[Jester Joe]

Doesn't help that it seems that the protagonist might be silent... as usual.

I have never ever heard someone say they wish the protagonist of a Pokemon game could talk.

Hell, a ton of RPGs with extremely engaging stories have silent protagonists (Persona series alone says hi).