1. #73501
    Scarab Lord Skizzit's Avatar
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    That chart doesn't really work because I think Shelter, Thunderbolt Fantasy, and Avatar are all anime, but Kamen Rider, Pacific Rim, and Sonic Heroes are not. I mean, Kamen Rider is Sentai, Pacific Rim is Kaiju, and Sonic Heroes is Hot Garbage. So where does that put me?

    Touhou I guess rides the line. I don't know much about it other than that it is a bullet hell game with anime girl characters? Is there more to it than that?

  2. #73502
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    To me, when I think "anime", I don't think "cartoons made in Japan". I think of a certain, unique style that encompasses multiple things, that is unique from the dredge that the West puts out.

    "Anime" are fun, very expressive, memorable characters with exaggerated personalities.

    "Anime" stories can alternate between fun, whacky hijinks and gag comedy, to a grimdark or over the top plotline in an instant. Power of friendship: unlike Western and Chinese stories, which are about a singular hero triumphing over anything, "anime" stories are about recognizing that you are just a man, and trusting in your friends. The final boss is defeated together. The final boss loses because he had no one left to rely on. Anime stories have heart.

    "Anime" music is melodic, and carries on the tradition of Western classical music. Japanese composers have preserved the tradition of classical music better than Western composers have. Most Western music students are not taught tradition properly. They have composition degrees, but don't know how to compose music. It's why Japanese video game and anime soundtracks are far more memorable than their Western counterparts. They are melodic and well composed.

    I am curious, however, how unique this style is to Japan. I've seen a little of bit of Korean TV and movies, and it seems that they have the same "anime" style as I've described above. Stories with heart. Whacky, exaggerated characters. Unafraid of drastic tonal shifts. Power of friendship. Melodic music. Perhaps this style may be more indicative of something cultural about the Asian Tigers? I don't think it's indicative of East Asian culture or preferences in general, as Chinese media is nothing like the Japanese anime or Korean drama style. Chinese media is more self centered (singular hero who conquers all), more cynical, lots of revenge stuff, etc. Then again, perhaps modern China is the odd one out because of the cultural devolution.

    So I think I don't like Japanese cartoons, per se, but that heart in Japanese and Korean stories. I can't place a name on it, so I've called it "anime".

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    @listo95 knows way more about Korean culture than me, so perhaps he might know something?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Addendum: I also think that the "heart" of Japanese and Korean stories may come from the fact that - compared to the West - they are relatively low budget. If a series flops, the company isn't going to die. They are not $250 million USD Hollywood productions that a board of directors orders to check boxes on a list or fit a formula to guarantee that it makes its money back. The creators of Japanese and Korean stories are free to come up with any idea they want. When you read a manga or a web novel, you are reading the author's unedited thoughts.

    Japanese and Korean stories also have a planned beginning, middle, and end. Everything flows together. It's not like in the West where they just keep renewing the show and making up things as they go along until audiences have enough of the bullshit, ratings drop, and the show is cancelled.

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  3. #73503
    Over 9000! Yunru's Avatar
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    Anime is for me -- Made in Japan
    For the rest of the world its western animation (or east). Stuff like Wakfu, Avatar and so on is west animation.

    So no Rick and Morty is not a Anime .
    However this list is missing china animation (wich is shit btw).

  4. #73504
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    However this list is missing china animation (wich is shit btw).
    A lot of anime is outsourced to Korean and Chinese animation studios.

    That said, from what I've seen most actual Chinese productions seem to be rather meh. Except The King's Avatar.

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  5. #73505
    Over 9000! Yunru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    A lot of anime is outsourced to Korean and Chinese animation studios.

    That said, from what I've seen most actual Chinese productions seem to be rather meh. Except The King's Avatar.
    White Snake was bad tho. And it had a pretty op animation.

  6. #73506
    Quote Originally Posted by Pvt Hudson View Post
    [IMG]https://66.media.tumblr.com/ce3941613199e53881b5e976f65355db/8e7349f10a664182-c9/s500x750/c7dc509995e977c53edbeb1d433e83d8e17cae5f.gifv[/MG]

  7. #73507
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    "Anime" music is melodic, and carries on the tradition of Western classical music. Japanese composers have preserved the tradition of classical music better than Western composers have. Most Western music students are not taught tradition properly. They have composition degrees, but don't know how to compose music. It's why Japanese video game and anime soundtracks are far more memorable than their Western counterparts. They are melodic and well composed.
    This is peak weeb and just flat out wrong

  8. #73508
    Quote Originally Posted by bals View Post
    [IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Z7qlohsl.png[/=IMG]
    Kokkoro is a pure cinnamon roll and must be protected.

    "Would you please let me join your p-p-party?

  9. #73509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chelly View Post
    This is peak weeb and just flat out wrong
    How so? Aside from a handful of composers like Dustin Brower and Michael Giacchino, contemporary music from the West is forgettable or straight up crap. Oh sure, you can cherry pick a handful of songs from Hans Zimmer or Alan Silvestri, out of the entirety of their works and out of the entirety of the Western music industry, but they don't put out consistently great work like the aforementioned two, or Japanese composers.

    To paraphrase David V Stewart:

    Quote Originally Posted by David V Stewart
    We are created to understand music. Our neurology responds to pitches over time. Music theory codifies that. It is not subjective. We speak in perfect intervals. When you speak, you're singing a melody.

    In the modern period, we have an artificial invention of music theory, namely the twelve tone scale. Tonal harmony is a function of nature. Tonalism is a rebellion against it. Schonburg rebelled against nature by replacing it with his own invented music theory called 12 tone music theory, which don't represent 12 notes in nature. It's an adjusted, equal tempered altering of what nature produces. He codified them so no pitch would be used more than another, so there is no consonance. It's only dissonance.

    Rather than styles coming in and out, you have a replacement of the whole idea that something is a vehicle for meaning. We now have this post-modernist idea that "the meaning is completely subjective", which basically means that there is no intended meaning behind the art, no artistic intent... and you've lost art. This is the problem with the academy. It's been a hundred year since we've had a composer coming out of the academy producing music anyone cares about. Instead, all of the good music that is for orchestra are film scores. In a hundred years, composition students after this trend is long dead will be studying John Williams and James Horner, and maybe even electronic artists like Philip Glass. They certainly won't be listening to Milton Babbitt.

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  10. #73510
    Warchief Zatheyll's Avatar
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    There's barely any good anime music, and most of it is made by an Australian.

  11. #73511
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    How so? Aside from a handful of composers like Dustin Brower and Michael Giacchino, contemporary music from the West is forgettable or straight up crap. Oh sure, you can cherry pick a handful of songs from Hans Zimmer or Alan Silvestri, out of the entirety of their works and out of the entirety of the Western music industry, but they don't put out consistently great work like the aforementioned two, or Japanese composers.

    To paraphrase David V Stewart:
    Yep, still peak weeb.

    There's just as much shite music in Japan as there is in the west. Their music isn't folded 1000 times, quit glorifying it for no other reason than you having a massive boner for Japan.
    You're no better than the people complaining that all anime is hentai trash for creepy horny teens, or the people arguing that the Katana is the best sword ever made by humans.

    You also forgot about Howard Shore.
    Last edited by Chelly; 2020-05-29 at 08:31 PM.

  12. #73512
    Over 9000! Yunru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zatheyll View Post
    There's barely any good anime music, and most of it is made by an Australian.
    Man with a Mission? For example.

  13. #73513
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    Great contemporary composers (had to have composed commercial music since 2000, if they stopped before they don't count. Has to have consistently put out great work, not just one off good songs. No Alan Silvestri just because he made a violin riff). Western composers highlighted in bold.

    • Hitoshi Sakimoto (FF12, Valkyria Chronicles)
    • Masayoshi Soken (FFXIV)
    • Yoko Shimomura (Street Fighter II, Kingdom Hearts, Xenoblade Chronicles, FFXV)
    • Kumi Tanioka (FFXI, FF Crystal Chronicles Echoes of Time)
    • Hayato Sonoda (Trails, Tokyo Xanadu, Zwei Illvard)
    • Wataru Ishibashi (Trails)
    • Yukihiro Jindo (Trails arranger)
    • Morikazu Aoki (Pokemon RSE, ORAS arranger)
    • Shota Kageyama (Pokemon BW, XY, ORAS arranger)
    • Asuka Ohta (Animal Crossing Wild World, Mario Kart Wii)
    • Yuki Hayashi (My Hero Academia)
    • Nobuo Uematsu (FFII, FFIII, FFVII, FFVIII FFX, FFXI, FFXIV, Granblue Fantasy)
    • Minako Adachi (Pokemon SM, SM arranger)
    • Go Ichinose (Pokemon RSE, SM)
    • Junichi Masuda (Pokemon Indigo League anime, Pokemon GSC, Pokemon BW, Pokemon SM)
    • Howard Shore (LotR, the Hobbit)

    • Manami Kiyota (Xenoblade Chronicles)
    • Koji Kondo (Super Mario 64, LoZ Ocarina of Time)
    • Joe Hisaishi (Ghibli films)
    • Taku Iwasaki (Rurouni Kenshin Trust and Betrayal, The Irregular at Magic Highschool)
    • Kohei Tanaka (Gunbuster, Sakura Wars, One Piece)
    • Michael Giacchino (Up, Star Trek reboots)
    • Takahiro Unisuga (Trails, Ys, Tokyo Xanadu)
    • Hitomi Sato (Pokemon BW, SM)
    • Saki Momiyama (Trails, Zwei Illvard)
    • Tomokatsu Hagiuda (Trails)
    • Naoki Satou (Sword of the Stranger)
    • Jeremy Soule (Guild Wars 2, Skyrim, WoW MoP)
    • Jason Hayes (World of Warcraft)
    • Yoshihisa Hirano (Hunter x Hunter 2011)
    • Edo Guidotti (WoW MoP)
    • Akira Senju (Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood)
    • Tsutomu Narita (FFXIV, Granblue Fantasy arranger)
    • Kenji Kawai (Fate/Stay Night anime, Seirei no Moribito, Death Note, Gundam 00)
    • Ryo Takeshita (Trails)
    • Noriyuki Asakura (Rurouni Kenshin)
    • Russell Brower (World of Warcraft) - (the amount of work he has done is understated, WoW composers do multiple tracks for a single theme. For example, the Eversong Woods is listed as one theme, but it has over 12 minutes of unique music across multiple tracks).
    • Masaru Yokoyama (Unbreakable Machine Doll, Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans)
    • Harry Gregson-Williams (The Chronicles of Narnia)
    • Yasunori Mitsuda (Xenogears, Xenoblade Chronicles 2)
    • Hideyuki Fukasawa (Fate UBW, Witch of the Holy Night, Touken Ranbu Katsugeki)
    • Sam Cardon (WoW MoP, Legion) - (he did Preserver from Legion!)
    • Neal Acree (WoW MoP)
    • Derek Duke (WoW WotLK, MoP, Diablo 3)
    • Brian Tyler (Lego Universe)
    • Yasuharu Takanashi (Naruto, Log Horizon, Boruto, Fairy Tale)
    • Yuki Kajiura (Kara no Kyoukai, Fate/Zero, SAO)
    • John Powell (How to Train your Dragon)
    • David Arkenstone (WoW)
    • Glenn Stafford (Warcraft 2, WoW WotLK)
    • Shiro Sagisu (Bleach, Magi)
    • John Williams (Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Jurassic Park)
    • Makoto Miyazaki (One Punch Man)
    • Motoi Sakuraba (Super Smash Bros Brawl arranger, Dark Souls 3, Tales of Berseria)
    • Masashi Hamauzu (FFX, FFXIII)
    • Hiroyuki Sawano (Attack on Titan, Aldnoah.Zero, Xenoblade Chronicles X, Thunderbolt Fantasy)
    • Klaus Badelt and Hans Zimmer (Pirates of the Caribbean, Interstellar, Kung fu Panda)
    • Junya Nakano (FFX)


    Out of 61 composers, 16 are from the West, and I was being generous with some of them.

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  14. #73514
    Martin O'Donnell?
    Michael Salvatori?
    Frank Klepacki ?
    Jesper Kyd?
    Christopher Tin ?
    Jeff van Dyck ?
    Marcin Przybyłowicz?

    These are just game composers I picked off the top of my head. There are many more for both games and films.

    Your weeb bias is showing hard. Your claim that the west has no good composers is fucking ridiculous.
    What's next, Japanese steel is superior?
    Last edited by Chelly; 2020-05-29 at 10:40 PM.

  15. #73515
    Titan Val the Moofia Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chelly View Post
    Martin O'Donnell?
    Michael Salvatori?
    They did spacey ambient tracks that Mass Effect copied later. Otherwise I don't know anything else about them.

    Frank Klepacki ?
    He's done hardly anything since 2000.

    Jesper Kyd?
    Only game of his I played was Borderlands 2 and I remember the soundtrack being meh. He got a lot of high profile jobs so apparently some people think he's good.

    Christopher Tin
    Never heard of him until now.

    Jeff van Dyck ?
    Never heard anything memorable from his games.

    Marcin Przybyłowicz?
    Has one notable soundtrack (I have a few Witcher 3 tracks on my favorite's playlist).

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  16. #73516
    haha van Dyck

  17. #73517
    Quote Originally Posted by Pvt Hudson View Post
    Kokkoro is a pure cinnamon roll and must be protected.
    sharyl doesn't exist


  18. #73518
    Quote Originally Posted by bals View Post

    "Would you please let me join your p-p-party?

  19. #73519
    Over 9000! Yunru's Avatar
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  20. #73520
    And somehow I am glad that I lost interest in Jojo after I watched Part 3.

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