Can anyone tell me the state of WW and BrM come 6.2?

[ElDoorO]

What in the world are you talking about? No one even said anything about MW and this thread isn't about MW at all. Furthermore, WW in PvP has been mediocre at best and unplayable at worst for 3 years now and I don't think anyone said otherwise. I don't know why you'd even bring up PvP when the OP probably wasn't asking about PvP since he mentioned BrM and what you were responding to didn't mention PvP (as rabid PvPers have a tendency to do when it's totally irrelevant just to whine about something).

In the world of PvE, the reason why WWs got some abilities nerfs is the exact same reason why they did in Highmaul, which is that in the upcoming HFC SEF is overpowered as hell and they need to be average or slightly below average to not be the best DPS spec in the game. Even so, what amounts to a ~4% total damage nerf certainly isn't going to mean anything substantial. For some reason, many people playing this game have drastically skewed perceptions of what percentages mean and think that the difference between top DPS and bottom DPS is like 2% when in reality it's typically closer to 30% on any given fight.

The patch notes aren't complicated unless you play Brewmaster. For everyone else, it's fairly apparent what's happening as long as you have an elementary grasp on how percentages work and the real spread of DPS the game actually has. Suggesting that someone take 5 seconds to glance at the patch notes so they can have some kind of meaningful conversation instead of being spoonfed the information by everyone else isn't asking a whole lot.

And for future reference, you don't need evidence to say that a claim that a drastic change is occurring isn't solid. You can't rationally argue against irrational fears that people are going to lose their raid spots over a 4% DPS nerf without even looking at the context of the raid they are happening in. Nothing drastic is changing for WW in 6.2 and that much is obvious just by looking at the patch notes and having the minimum possible understanding of the game to having a coherent conversation.

Errr, I'm not sure you remember the issues with Cataclysm initially, do you?
WW monks don't offer a lot of raid-wide utility. Even Blues have said as much. Progression groups go for perfection and if a class is nerfed too hard without offering much in return for the raid itself, they get sat when other options are available. A 5% difference, in progress, can be the difference between a downed boss and a wipe. Have you need read the forums here where people occasionally talk about their Last Man Standing (TM)? That 5% made the difference there. And you act like 5% is nothing? Tell them you don't believe that 5% made that difference and wasn't a big deal.

Asking someone to look at patch notes without context of 2p, 4p, and trinkets -- you're missing A LOT of information.
I suppose you might be right -- MMO-Champion might not be the goto place for informed people or experts to ask questions. Which website would you refer them to where they might find more informed people who are more polite and willing to offer *useful* advice? Because at this point I'm not seeing anyone but a singular person on these forums offering *useful* information -- and that's TotalTemic. So I presume you have another website in mind for where someone might ask said questions.

Obviously you're wrong -- Warlocks needed confirmation that Ion didn't want them playing demo anymore until they over-hauled it. So you're assumption is very... faulty at least. It wasn't "bad math" -- they just gave the middle finger to demo until it's fixed.

I brought up MW because it's the *only* viable PvP spec -- but heaven forbid I offer more information than they asked for. I'll be sure not to do that again on MMO-C.

I'm not sure my words have ever been more misconstrued, whether it was accidental or purposeful misunderstanding. The OP of the thread mentioned WW and BrM so I assumed it was about PvE and every comment since has been under that assumption. I don't PvP, never have enjoyed it, so I don't pay attention to what goes on in WW PvP and I can't comment on it. Total covered most of my other thoughts so I won't reiterate them.

Ok so apparently I can't stack "reply with quotes" and it wiped what I was saying.

Look dude, learn to articulate yourself better and learn a little upfront honesty. You sent the OP on a goose chase consciously knowing they wouldn't have context to the changes relative to the gear, set bonuses, and trinkets. Why would you do that I am uncertain.

You say you know WW monk suck in PvP but then say you don't PvP. Odd how you formed an opinion on something you don't do.

You're allowed to assume whatever you want. Just because "every comment" afterwards responded in such a way doesn't mean the OP meant it that way. You are trying to use fallacious reasoning there and I'm not having it. A simple "I don't know where we stand in PvP" would have even sufficed -- and yet, you didn't even offer that.

[Snarfysnarf]

My experience from ptr is that WW has really good chi explosion cleave with the archimonde trinket and 4-set, but really weak serenity damage.

[XangXu]

WW are one of thr best melee classes to have in rbgs at the moment, people just don't understand why this is, and there are so few WW's out there already...

[Kinchouka]

WW are one of thr best melee classes to have in rbgs at the moment, people just don't understand why this is, and there are so few WW's out there already...

I gave up Windwalker PVP since launch of WoD. I 'm curious to know how windwalker is better than another melee class (let's say death knight for example).

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Furthermore, WW in PvP has been mediocre at best and unplayable at worst for 3 years now and I don't think anyone said otherwise.

I don't really agree with this.
I was doing only PVP during MoP (Windwalker in Arena & Mistweaver in RBG), and I was feeling that the class was quite balanced.
The problem is, we lost a lot of our toolkit with WoD.
No more Grapple Weapon, no more Spinning Fire Blossom, no more 100% Karma (until 6.1), no more 5yd FoF without glyph, no more roll dispelling snares without glyph, no more double FoF stun when trinketed (which was dumb, I admit), no more healing spheres, no more positional Paralysis.
What have we had in return ? Instant Teleport & lvl 100 talents ? This is sad.

By the way I think the new 4p PVP bonus goes against the philosophy of windwalker gameplay... use your offensive ability for more defenses. It's really counter-intuitive.


In a PVE point of view, I dream day and night that Blizzard tune down a little SEF and give us a balanced single target DPS.
I mean, I still play Mistweaver in PVP, and Windwalker is by far my least feared opponent. Why ? Because he can't put enough pressure because of his lacking ST dps.

[ElDoorO]

I gave up Windwalker PVP since launch of WoD. I 'm curious to know how windwalker is better than another melee class (let's say death knight for example).

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I don't really agree with this.
I was doing only PVP during MoP (Windwalker in Arena & Mistweaver in RBG), and I was feeling that the class was quite balanced.
The problem is, we lost a lot of our toolkit with WoD.
No more Grapple Weapon, no more Spinning Fire Blossom, no more 100% Karma (until 6.1), no more 5yd FoF without glyph, no more roll dispelling snares without glyph, no more double FoF stun when trinketed (which was dumb, I admit), no more healing spheres, no more positional Paralysis.
What have we had in return ? Instant Teleport & lvl 100 talents ? This is sad.

By the way I think the new 4p PVP bonus goes against the philosophy of windwalker gameplay... use your offensive ability for more defenses. It's really counter-intuitive.


In a PVE point of view, I dream day and night that Blizzard tune down a little SEF and give us a balanced single target DPS.
I mean, I still play Mistweaver in PVP, and Windwalker is by far my least feared opponent. Why ? Because he can't put enough pressure because of his lacking ST dps.

In Arena WW is going to get shit on. It's incredibly rare for WW to get anywhere in PvP. I've yet to meet a monk in Arena that's been a threat.
In RBG's you aren't going to get any invites. They offer nothing a feral can't provide better.
I agree with you on our 4p. I'm not sure who came up with it -- but I'm not sure they thought it through. They would have done better to have it reduce the CD of FB per stack by some amount. I'm not sure that would still make us viable but it'd significantly more viable than what we have now. But w/e. I don't think WW PvP will see any love any time soon so I went and moved my DPS PvP toon to something else.

[klepp0906]

One of the southern states... Think Florida, but not even Tampa Florida, more like Orlando. I think maybe one or two specs may be keys.. But that's about it.

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Considering the skill required to play monk optimally they should be MUCH more effective than they are imo.

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Aren't mages always OP?

Topping charts doesn't = op. Mages have to work for it and have plenty of trade off. Something like hunters or now DK.. You have a much more valid arguement.