Patch 6.2 Developer Q&A - Ion Hazzikostas

[Aerofluff]

"Mythic raiders have a better experience after the move to a fixed size thanks to tuning for only one size and new mechanics that are possible with a fixed size. It also settles the 10 vs 25 debate."

Well I'm glad somebody's happy about Mythic being only 20man, but my guild isn't. We used to do top-end content (Heroic pre-WoD, which was basically Mythic now) when we could 10man it. We've been pretty much unable to do any Mythic raiding in WoD due to the 20man requirement and many people being disinterested in this expac for the variety of reasons most players have already lodged numerous complaints about.

I can't count how many times I hear people say they wish we could do Mythic 10, or even Flex it to bring however many we have. Blizzard is, as usual, lazy and trying to cut down how much work they have to put into something... but who knows where that work is actually going. Hopefully to 6.2 content, because it sure as hell hasn't gone anywhere else currently.

[Deleted]

"Mythic raiders have a better experience after the move to a fixed size thanks to tuning for only one size and new mechanics that are possible with a fixed size. It also settles the 10 vs 25 debate."

Well I'm glad somebody's happy about Mythic being only 20man, but my guild isn't. We used to do top-end content (Heroic pre-WoD, which was basically Mythic now) when we could 10man it. We've been pretty much unable to do any Mythic raiding in WoD due to the 20man requirement and many people being disinterested in this expac for the variety of reasons most players have already lodged numerous complaints about.

I can't count how many times I hear people say they wish we could do Mythic 10, or even Flex it to bring however many we have. Blizzard is, as usual, lazy and trying to cut down how much work they have to put into something... but who knows where that work is actually going. Hopefully to 6.2 content, because it sure as hell hasn't gone anywhere else currently.

I'm with you on this 100%. As soon as he said that about raid size/structure that was it for me. I'll never resub now. I won't pay for the smallest minority of players in the game to have exclusive content so they have something to salve their egos.

[huldu]

So to fix a bad system, you add an even worse system? I mean wtf, do they even read what they write. This is so sad, I had high hopes for 6.2 to save this expansion but this direction they are going will make it even worse. I personally just level characters to max level and then they collect dust this was true for all expansion up until wod, at least the garrisons gave me a reason to log them on. I will obviously be playing a *lot* less wow in 6.2 if these changes go through, just by the design. I'd love to comment on everything they wrote but it's seriously going to take way too much time and I honestly wasted enough time on this expansion already. It just seems they have good intentions but no way of actually putting them in practice.

Next expansion they will do the same thing again, telling us what they thought was bad in WoD and how they will "fix" it, but seriously they do this crap every expansion and yet here we are. Understandably they're trying hard, perhaps even too hard, wow is sinking like a ship and it has lost millions of subscribers. No news. The game is never going to die but obviously it comes at a cost at the quality of the content they add and how often they add it.

There just isn't much to do in the expansion that is interesting or new and fresh. It's same old crap in every expansion up to now, over and over again. At least "other" mmos try some new ideas, thinking outside the box, sadly most of them are terrible f2p games and often just plain p2w, no surprise. It's just sad, I've played wow since the launch back in 2004-2005 I can't even remember. I love the game, it's hard to just leave it when you've put so much time into it. However they're really pushing hard and they might actually make it this time. I just need a good excuse to leave the game and never look back. Why do I even write this comment? It's because I like the game, otherwise I would just have deleted the crap and not written a word.

[Deleted]

The difference between other MMOs and World of Warcraft is that when they come out, they don't usually have the core following that WoW has. Even the people who post on here daily saying they've given up, would love WoW to at least be moderately enjoyable again.

The next expansion for WoW is crucial to the long term future of the game. If it evens things out or improves them, WoW will still have plenty of life. If it's still lacking in quality, i fear that it may accelerate towards free-to-play and that's a rabbit hole i don't think us WoW players want to go down.

So, how do they ensure success?
- Accept that WoW has had it's peak in popularity.
- Next expansion is a firefight expansion. The more they seem to try and cater to a casual and new audience, the worse off the expansions get.
- Do proper market research and surveys to try and pinpoint the key areas that currently subscribed players feel WoW is lacking in and work on them.
- Don't try so hard to be a AAA title. WoW has a loyal following, they just don't want to feel like they're being ignored.

If WoW can retain subscribers and level out, perception will change through word of mouth and the population will increase by itself.

[Hellaa]

Boy, I am REALLY not likely the sound of this.

I realize it's just me, but I have a lot of alts because I want them, not because I feel like I have to have them. That said, I don't feel like I have to log into them all every night either. Why is Blizzard so concerned about my feelings all of a sudden? Let people feel what they're going to feel for whatever reasons and leave it alone. Diminishing returns on rewards so people don't feel compelled to do dailies or whatever sounds pretty darn nanny state-ish to me.

The other reason I don't like the sound of this is is because while a person with 6 alts might reap a reward x6, alts are damned expensive too. If Blizzard goes with diminishing returns, are there also going to be diminishing costs to go along with it? Forget about my alts existing to serve my main, I don't necessarily want my main having to support all of my alts either. That's not fixing anything.

You nailed it ... said exactly what i was thinking.

[Osmeric]

- Next expansion is a firefight expansion. The more they seem to try and cater to a casual and new audience, the worse off the expansions get.

This expansion has cratered because the endgame DOESN'T cater to the casual and new audience. It's raid or die, and the raids (beyond LFR, which is unsatisfying) are too difficult.

[huldu]

This expansion has cratered because the endgame DOESN'T cater to the casual and new audience. It's raid or die, and the raids (beyond LFR, which is unsatisfying) are too difficult.

You're probably right, I haven't felt desire to raid at all in this expansion. The LFR is despicable but that's nothing new, we all know that already. But beyond that it's whatever, do the raids then get new gear X months from that, well done. Unless you're in a progression guild of some sort why even bother, but of course people enjoy it for the most part, I don't these days. I'd love to see more options not less. I've said it before other mmos aren't nearly as old school as wow when it comes to "end-game" content, but they just can't come anywhere near wow's polished feeling and they're all mostly f2p and Asian - terrible combination.

Didn't wildstar fail miserably by catering to the "hardcore" gamers? I guess 40k subs isn't enough to keep the ship going at the end of the day. I just remember the videos where they used "hardcore" in pretty much every sentence. There has to be some sort of middle ground, the hardcore gamers, or the ones who consider themselves "hardcore" aren't really hardcore when it comes around. Looking at the chat and these 3 hour raids 2 days a week, that's considered hardcore in wow these days? Seriously. I haven't done any hardcore raiding in many years, but we sure spent a lot more time than 3 hours 2 days a week lol.

[Osmeric]

Didn't wildstar fail miserably by catering to the "hardcore" gamers?

WildStar was flawed in so many ways it doesn't present irrefutable evidence against anything, unfortunately. A near-miss that failed for a single identifiable reason would have been more illuminating.

[Draekan]

"They want content you say? We'll give them hats. AND THEN. And this is the great bit; One patch later, we'll allow those same hats to be available for their perky pug!"
"Bob you're a fucking genius."

[Gilian]

This expansion has cratered because the endgame DOESN'T cater to the casual and new audience. It's raid or die, and the raids (beyond LFR, which is unsatisfying) are too difficult.

It does cater to casual players, more than ever before. It just doesn't cater to you.

The only problem the endgame content has in this expansion is that there is not much WORTHWHILE to do besides raiding.
"The team doesn't want inconvenience to stop you from doing content, but they also have to be mindful of the downsides of making everything too convenient."

And raids are too difficult according to you but the participation in normal and heroic went up. So maybe you are wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

"Mythic raiders have a better experience after the move to a fixed size thanks to tuning for only one size and new mechanics that are possible with a fixed size. It also settles the 10 vs 25 debate."

Well I'm glad somebody's happy about Mythic being only 20man, but my guild isn't. We used to do top-end content (Heroic pre-WoD, which was basically Mythic now) when we could 10man it. We've been pretty much unable to do any Mythic raiding in WoD due to the 20man requirement and many people being disinterested in this expac for the variety of reasons most players have already lodged numerous complaints about.

I can't count how many times I hear people say they wish we could do Mythic 10, or even Flex it to bring however many we have. Blizzard is, as usual, lazy and trying to cut down how much work they have to put into something... but who knows where that work is actually going. Hopefully to 6.2 content, because it sure as hell hasn't gone anywhere else currently.

I don't understand how so many didn't see this coming. You think Blizzard didn't know this would happen? Next expansion guilds will settle down and everyone will be happy with 20 man mythic.

[kelyne]

I don't understand how so many didn't see this coming. You think Blizzard didn't know this would happen? Next expansion guilds will settle down and everyone will be happy with 20 man mythic.

Yeah after they lose another couple million to not having engaging content available for the LARGEST AND MOST POPULAR raiding demographic (ie. 10 man heroic pre-wod). Everyone still playing will be happen because the vast majority of the people who enjoyed that content won't be around anymore.

My guild folded this week - And from what I am hearing from my players only 3 out of 14 people are going to keep playing wow. I've talked to a couple other GM's that are trying to stick it out one more patch but if something doesn't change they are going to be in the same boat. Oh and I advised being absorbed by a guild we've been grouping with for the past few weeks - That was pretty much the nail i the coffin as soon as I said I was done leading our guild no one wanted to play anymore.

I would really like i know where he pulls his numbers too 5 to 10%? More like 75% of the leadership's time to logistics non-game play to maintain enough players to do mythic. Maybe the top 1% who have people coming to them for spots don't have that issue but social/friend guild like mine that cleared heroic two or three weeks its a different story. I'm sorry but content isn't hard its the logistics of it and that's not how a game should be period. (We cleared 5/10H in three weeks and 11% on kromog in one night with the help of another guild)

[Osmeric]

the LARGEST AND MOST POPULAR raiding demographic (ie. 10 man heroic pre-wod).

What? In no way was any kind of heroic raiding the "LARGEST AND MOST POPULAR".

The "LARGEST AND MOST POPULAR" raiding in MoP was LFR.

[kelyne]

What? In no way was any kind of heroic raiding the "LARGEST AND MOST POPULAR".

The "LARGEST AND MOST POPULAR" raiding in MoP was LFR.

I should have pre-cursed that statement in the bounds of "Heroic" raiding.

SoO Heroic: (Skewed by Mythic at end of patch)
25 - 4,570 Guilds X 25 = 114,250 Players
10 - 20,014 Guilds X 10 = 200,140 Players

ToT Heroic:
25 - 1,750 Guilds X 25 = 43,750 Players
10 - 18,793 Guilds X 10 = 187,930 Players

Tier 14 Heroic
MSV:
25 - 1,589 Guilds X 25 = 39,725 Players
10 - 16,371 Guilds X 10 = 163,710 Players

Hof:
25 - 961 Guilds X 25 = 24,025 Players
10 - 4,941 Guilds X 10 = 49,410 Players

ToE:
25 - 596 Guilds X 25 = 14,900 Players
10 - 2,844 Guilds X 10 = 20,844 Players

Tier 17 Mythic:
(Kargath) 20 - 13,235 Guilds X 20 = 264,700 (Lots of 10 man guilds puging and running short)
** This is about what I would expect to see since there were ~300,000 players running Mythic SoO at the end of MoP

(Twins) 20 - 8,132 Guilds X 20 = 162,640 (We 18 maned our first kill)
(Beast Lord) 20 - 4869 Guilds X 20 = 97,380

Comparing BrF to ToT seems to be the best fit. There is a massive drop in the number of raiders doing the content over the period of time it has been available. In general 10 man has 66% more players doing it than were doing 25. Looking at beast lord its pretty obvious that 66% of the guild base just didn't make it from the start of the expac.

Though I guess blizz doesn't care since out of 7 million players 200,000 players is nothing to them. But who knows might have a chaining effect....

[Cobrakai]

This expansion has cratered because the endgame DOESN'T cater to the casual and new audience. It's raid or die, and the raids (beyond LFR, which is unsatisfying) are too difficult.

the raids are far from too difficult. my group (up until the last couple of months) regularly pugged every raid night (2 nights a week for 2.5 hours, sometimes once a week). we were able to get 6/7 heroic HM and 8/10 heroic BRF. once we organized a proper guild (so we didn't have to waste precious time each night reforming when someone left the raid) we easily cleared the end boss content for both raids.

wow will always require a time commitment.

[chilao]

I should have pre-cursed that statement in the bounds of "Heroic" raiding.

SoO Heroic: (Skewed by Mythic at end of patch)
25 - 4,570 Guilds X 25 = 114,250 Players
10 - 20,014 Guilds X 10 = 200,140 Players

ToT Heroic:
25 - 1,750 Guilds X 25 = 43,750 Players
10 - 18,793 Guilds X 10 = 187,930 Players

Tier 14 Heroic
MSV:
25 - 1,589 Guilds X 25 = 39,725 Players
10 - 16,371 Guilds X 10 = 163,710 Players

Hof:
25 - 961 Guilds X 25 = 24,025 Players
10 - 4,941 Guilds X 10 = 49,410 Players

ToE:
25 - 596 Guilds X 25 = 14,900 Players
10 - 2,844 Guilds X 10 = 20,844 Players

Tier 17 Mythic:
(Kargath) 20 - 13,235 Guilds X 20 = 264,700 (Lots of 10 man guilds puging and running short)
** This is about what I would expect to see since there were ~300,000 players running Mythic SoO at the end of MoP

(Twins) 20 - 8,132 Guilds X 20 = 162,640 (We 18 maned our first kill)
(Beast Lord) 20 - 4869 Guilds X 20 = 97,380

Comparing BrF to ToT seems to be the best fit. There is a massive drop in the number of raiders doing the content over the period of time it has been available. In general 10 man has 66% more players doing it than were doing 25. Looking at beast lord its pretty obvious that 66% of the guild base just didn't make it from the start of the expac.

Though I guess blizz doesn't care since out of 7 million players 200,000 players is nothing to them. But who knows might have a chaining effect....

Agree.

IMO:
They've killed WoW by forcing 20 people for the endgame.
Inb4 "WotLK peak with 25HC endgame", WotLK had it's peak lorewise (WC3:TFT).
When 10 man was presented with the same loot, it was great. At least in my case I saw a lot of people coming back to play with their friends. Now it's "All tables are full" on Hearthstone.

[papajohn4]

The problem with the appexis crystal daily was not its structure..it was that 200000 servers gone into the same location and with all the LFG raid groups, there were 4-5 40-man raids in an area trying to kill mobs...as a structure it was nice..

Why don't you try the GW2 daily? Everyday have a list of things "Do a dungeon", "win a pvp battle", "do 5 quests", "gather 50 material" etc and ask player to complete 5/8 of them to get the daily reward. In that way you don't tunnel all players into a specific location and still it does not seem like pandaria daily whores..

[kamuimac]

Yeah after they lose another couple million to not having engaging content available for the LARGEST AND MOST POPULAR raiding demographic (ie. 10 man heroic pre-wod). Everyone still playing will be happen because the vast majority of the people who enjoyed that content won't be around anymore.

My guild folded this week - And from what I am hearing from my players only 3 out of 14 people are going to keep playing wow. I've talked to a couple other GM's that are trying to stick it out one more patch but if something doesn't change they are going to be in the same boat. Oh and I advised being absorbed by a guild we've been grouping with for the past few weeks - That was pretty much the nail i the coffin as soon as I said I was done leading our guild no one wanted to play anymore.

I would really like i know where he pulls his numbers too 5 to 10%? More like 75% of the leadership's time to logistics non-game play to maintain enough players to do mythic. Maybe the top 1% who have people coming to them for spots don't have that issue but social/friend guild like mine that cleared heroic two or three weeks its a different story. I'm sorry but content isn't hard its the logistics of it and that's not how a game should be period. (We cleared 5/10H in three weeks and 11% on kromog in one night with the help of another guild)

thing is even for mythic guilds atm situation is pretty funny since there are so many of them dieing that the best way to rise in realm ranks is just stay alive my firiends guild jumped from server 40 close to server 20 with only 1 extra boss kill mainly because 10 guilds above them ceased to exist over last month. in this pace even on super high pop servers by the end of expansion there will be like 20-30 mythic guilds then long long nothing and then few super duper causal hc mode guilds and then completly nothing. this expansion is going in very very bad direction atm.

[Abigail1509]

So now i need to pray to RNG gods i get the highest gold rewards mission , on the characters with the usefull triat for extra rewards!