1. #2321
    Quote Originally Posted by Colmadero View Post
    Bring back FFIX system with 4 characters and let 2 players control 2 each!
    There you go! I like the idea of experiencing any FF game with a friend.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

    - let's get real everyone, classic needs #somechanges get over it.

  2. #2322
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    While they tried to keep civilian costs to a minimum avalanche was 100% morally gray and still are. Nobody is buying they're the "good guys" with this disney fairy tale twist lmao, they want to save the planet and if that meant some innocents died well shit happens. Just because you retcon the bomb to be a dud doesn't change this. It's one thing if you make it clear the bombs explosion was smaller as was hinted at in the original. It's another thing entirely to make it do nothing at all.
    I never saw them as morally grey...they were painted as good guys since the start and shinra as the bad guys... and it kept it like that all the way to the end :/

  3. #2323
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    I never saw them as morally grey...they were painted as good guys since the start and shinra as the bad guys... and it kept it like that all the way to the end :/
    They were definitely grey. Get the job done by any means to save the planet from shinra aka capitalism . It's barret whole arc really about his inner turmoil after selling out his previous town to shinra
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  4. #2324
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    They were definitely grey. Get the job done by any means to save the planet from shinra aka capitalism . It's barret whole arc really about his inner turmoil after selling out his previous town to shinra
    The entire beginning is all about how shinra is destroying the world and keeping riches for themselves as shown by all the slums and peoples expressing about the whole poor vs rich thing... The message is clear "Shinra is ruining the world for greed" and we since the start fought for the people being pushed around as well as for the planet. Only to be reinforced even further after shinra destroys the sector and blame Avalanche.

    The only way they are morally grey is in the eyes of the people within the game because some see them as terrorists through propaganda from shinra...for us players, we always knew they were good since the start. Even with this change they remain "morally grey" within the game world, but to us they are and always were good guys because we knew more.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2020-03-04 at 07:43 PM.

  5. #2325
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    The entire beginning is all about how shinra is destroying the world and keeping riches for themselves as shown by all the slums and peoples expressing about the whole poor vs rich thing... The message is clear "Shinra is ruining the world for greed" and we since the start fought for the people being pushed around as well as for the planet. Only to be reinforced even further after shinra destroys the sector and blame Avalanche.

    The only way they are morally grey is in the eyes of the people within the game because some see them as terrorists...for us players, we always knew they were good since the start. Even with this change they remain morally grey within the game world, but to us they are and always were good guys because we knew more.
    The first shinra president is an over zealous madman and gets a sword in the back rather quickly for it via sephiroth. Rufus is actually more balanced and represents the technology and science benefits of capitalism with his help vs the weapons. Barret himself even admits he likes the tech that comes with modern living but as you say the devide between the rich and the poor is too great and parts of the planet are becoming unliveable through greed. Sound familiar?
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  6. #2326
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    The first shinra president is an over zealous madman and gets a sword in the back rather quickly for it via sephiroth. Rufus is actually more balanced and represents the technology and science benefits of capitalism with his help vs the weapons. Barret himself even admits he likes the tech that comes with modern living but as you say the devide between the rich and the poor is too great and parts of the planet are becoming unliveable through greed. Sound familiar?
    Yes, not sure what your point is though... the game is straight up telling you directly they are the bad guys and you being the good guy. It's a social commentary on society absolutely, doesn't change how it's presented in game.

  7. #2327
    I was pleasantly surprised. I haven't been allowing myself to get too excited because all the trouble the development seemed to be having and how awful FF15 was but after playing the demo... I AM FUCKING HYPED

  8. #2328
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Yes, not sure what your point is though... the game is straight up telling you directly they are the bad guys and you being the good guy. It's a social commentary on society absolutely, doesn't change how it's presented in game.
    Just because someone is clear and cut "the bad guy" does not making people opposing them "the good guy". When someone is destined to stop the bad guy even at the cost of innocents if necessary that makes them pretty grey, not the good guy and also not necessarily the bad guy either. I think the meaning of grey has been warped by dumbass blizzard calling Sylvanas that to try and deflect at start of BFA? But no one is saying they are evil if that's what you're getting at. They are literally eco terrorists, just because it's done with good intent doesn't change the 2nd part of the equation, hence grey.

  9. #2329
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Just because someone is clear and cut "the bad guy" does not making people opposing them "the good guy". When someone is destined to stop the bad guy even at the cost of innocents if necessary that makes them pretty grey, not the good guy and also not necessarily the bad guy either. I think the meaning of grey has been warped by dumbass blizzard calling Sylvanas that to try and deflect at start of BFA? But no one is saying they are evil if that's what you're getting at. They are literally eco terrorists, just because it's done with good intent doesn't change the 2nd part of the equation, hence grey.
    Would have a point if it wasn't taken to such an extreme on how much shinra is ruining literally everything it touches... you even see it on the big map where "corruption" seeps out of midgar... They are literally destroying the world and that's hammered in since the start. Considering THAT extreme anyone blowing up a reactor that KILLS the planet to the degree they are doing it's a good thing.

    As I said, in the eyes of the world building they are morally grey. To some people they are absolutely eco-terrorist... we as PLAYERS know they aren't and they are doing the right thing. You have to differentiate between in game world knowledge and our knowledge as players.

    As I said earlier. If you say they are morally grey in the world of ff7 in the eyes of the inhabitants, then yeah... but then if so, this doesn't change anything at all, because the public within the world don't know it was shinra destroying the reactor and not avalanche...so they are still morally grey within the game world with this change.

    TL;DR: Inside the game world, morally grey. To us players, not morally grey.

  10. #2330
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    To some people they are absolutely eco-terrorist... we as PLAYERS know they aren't
    lol what, I must of missed the part where we as players don't see them attempt to commit acts of violence to save the environment... Oh wait they do. They are literal eco terrorists, that isn't a debate.

    I honestly think I'm on the wow lore sub forum with this amount of denial over things the supposed "good guys" do. I didn't know people acted this way about VII as well when in fact the morally grey nature of avalanche is one of the best parts about the story.

  11. #2331
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    lol what, I must of missed the part where we as players don't see them attempt to commit acts of violence to save the environment... Oh wait they do. They are literal eco terrorists, that isn't a debate.
    yeah bad wording on my part. Want to address the rest or do you think that it somehow nullifies the tons of exposition we get about who is good and who is bad in the game?

  12. #2332
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    lol what, I must of missed the part where we as players don't see them attempt to commit acts of violence to save the environment... Oh wait they do. They are literal eco terrorists, that isn't a debate.

    I honestly think I'm on the wow lore sub forum with this amount of denial over things the supposed "good guys" do. I didn't know people acted this way about VII as well when in fact the morally grey nature of avalanche is one of the best parts about the story.
    Or, some people have differing takes on the narrative. And some people view the changes as fine, and still leaving Avalanche in a grey area but making the existing narrative a bit more clear-cut. I fully expect that we'll delve a lot more into Avalanche with this installment to flesh this out a lot more than it is in the OG game.

  13. #2333
    Game frozen just as I got to the sweeper fight T-T had to restart.
    Enjoying the new dialogue from Jessie thou, especially when you were going through the lazer grid.

    But godamnit wedge...he so fat..

  14. #2334
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustedsaint View Post
    Game frozen just as I got to the sweeper fight T-T had to restart.
    Enjoying the new dialogue from Jessie thou, especially when you were going through the lazer grid.

    But godamnit wedge...he so fat..
    I mean - he was rather burly/fat in the original even with the polygons

  15. #2335
    Quote Originally Posted by Colmadero View Post
    I mean - he was rather burly/fat in the original even with the polygons
    Yes but you atleast had the illusion that he was more of a stocky fat but instead we got this boyish fat boy who looks like he never skipped his 2nd breakfast despite living in poverty.

  16. #2336
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustedsaint View Post
    Yes but you atleast had the illusion that he was more of a stocky fat but instead we got this boyish fat boy who looks like he never skipped his 2nd breakfast despite living in poverty.
    "living in poverty" Walmart literally makes billions off of poor people who also usually are overweight. How are we even equating the 2 lmfao. You can still get fat eating shitty slop, in fact its even easier to get fat in that case due to the poor food quality.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Or, some people have differing takes on the narrative. And some people view the changes as fine, and still leaving Avalanche in a grey area but making the existing narrative a bit more clear-cut. I fully expect that we'll delve a lot more into Avalanche with this installment to flesh this out a lot more than it is in the OG game.
    I fully expect a flashback every 5 seconds to remind you Avalanche didn't actually kill anyone because their bomb was a dud(yet intent never changed) because Square is scared how the current mass media would respond to a group of eco terrorists.

    It's really not a debate if they where eco terrorists or not, they where by definition. Square seems to want to try to absolve them of all guilt with a sloppy writing job without even delving into intent because lets be honest. This is fucking Nomura, there isn't going to be some deep philosophical examination of Avalanche. They're just gonna try the good ole disney fairy tale retcon and make it so they are the perfect good guys no one should ever question.

  17. #2337
    So what's this nonsense about Red XIII not being playable?

    He was fully controllable in the original when you joins you in Midgard? I am not understanding the change.

  18. #2338
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    So what's this nonsense about Red XIII not being playable?

    He was fully controllable in the original when you joins you in Midgard? I am not understanding the change.
    In the first installment, which ends before he becomes a formal member of your party or something. You'll play him in later installments.

  19. #2339
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    In the first installment, which ends before he becomes a formal member of your party or something. You'll play him in later installments.
    Oh good. I was worried for a moment since Red XIII is one my favorite party members. I was having some serious Umaro flashbacks.

  20. #2340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    So what's this nonsense about Red XIII not being playable?
    Basically, because he joins so late in the game, they didn't see the point of making him playable, when you'll not actually get to play him for that long. So, instead, he'll join as a 'Guest Character' until the start of part 2, and then join for real.
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