1. #3521
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    I'd be surprised if they kill off additional characters.

    With the new combat system and engine theres unlimited spin off/dlc options.

    Killing off characters limits that.
    Gameplay wise there is no point in having both Zack and Cloud...

    Oops Cloud fans shitting their pants rn.

  2. #3522
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Gameplay wise there is no point in having both Zack and Cloud...

    Oops Cloud fans shitting their pants rn.
    Good thing Zack is getting his own game. Phew, shit avoided.

  3. #3523
    Quote Originally Posted by thilicen View Post
    Yeah I suspect a major "twist" point being that she can actually be saved. Don't like it but it is what it is.
    The entire setup they're heading toward is to make you believe you can save Aerith and you will. Which is then going to make the death of another character or even Aerith again even worse after thinking you where past that point and had the full party.

    It will be cliche and lame if the entire party is saved and happy ending kumbaya.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Good thing Zack is getting his own game. Phew, shit avoided.
    Oh I have some bad news for the guy that didn't see the Yuffie DLC ending and that "his own game" is getting remastered for a reason.

  4. #3524
    One of the biggest complaints people had with Aerith dying in the original was that you lose a party member you may have invested time and effort into - but if they just end Part 2 with her death that won't be a problem, because ostensibly Part 3 provided a fresh start anyway and so you don't really have that feeling of waste.

  5. #3525
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    One of the biggest complaints people had with Aerith dying in the original was that you lose a party member you may have invested time and effort into - but if they just end Part 2 with her death that won't be a problem, because ostensibly Part 3 provided a fresh start anyway and so you don't really have that feeling of waste.
    That's kind of what makes it a death though. Aerith's death was one of the few things in the original FFVII story that wasn't shit because it actually felt like a death. Similar to Shinji in Persona 3. Losing a character you may have invested time and effort into is exactly how you want to make a player actually feel a death, and better than most other ways.

  6. #3526
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    That's kind of what makes it a death though. Aerith's death was one of the few things in the original FFVII story that wasn't shit because it actually felt like a death. Similar to Shinji in Persona 3. Losing a character you may have invested time and effort into is exactly how you want to make a player actually feel a death, and better than most other ways.
    Oh I'm not saying I disagree, but many people felt "cheated" on a more than narrative level - I agree that this is a great device to hammer home the gravity of the event, but it's also the kind of thing a developer/publisher would look at in terms of feedback.

  7. #3527
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Aerith's death was one of the few things in the original FFVII story that wasn't shit because it actually felt like a death. Similar to Shinji in Persona 3. Losing a character you may have invested time and effort into is exactly how you want to make a player actually feel a death, and better than most other ways
    Let's be honest, you probably did invest time into her. She had good Limit Breaks that you got very early on, a high Magic stat and her weapons had tonnes of Materia slots. That made her pretty much ideal for loading all of your offensive spells onto and letting her one-shot almost anything that wasn't a boss.

    Until you got onto the second playthrough and knew it was going to happen. Then she was sidelined ASAP because you knew you'd be losing her later on. At this point in time I'm pretty sure that everyone has seen the spoilers for the 25 year old game and knows it's coming in the same way that everyone knows Darth Vader is Luke Skywalkers dad - They're hugely influential moments in their respective mediums and pop culture osmosis is a powerful thing.

  8. #3528
    the new post Advent Children Sephiroth wants Aerith to live, because without her the lifestream won't intervene to stop Meteor. Him killing her in the original FF7 is what ultimately led to his defeat. So while Aerith may initially live beyond her previous death, in the end she will likely need to sacrifice herself to stop Meteor.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  9. #3529
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Nah. Millions of people like his storytelling. KH is one of Square's best selling franchises and it has lasted this long for a reason.
    Just because people like Kingdom Hearts doesn't mean they like the broad story. People like the aesthetics and gameplay. The story is a complete cluserfuck that the vast majority of players never understand and laugh off.

    He isn't in charge of the story.
    He's the director of the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Some ppl have no taste like yourself when it comes to games, FF 7 remake is great and if they want to spin the story a different way they are free to do what they want, you are the one being disrespectful.

    A remake is remaking the game not doing a 1 for one exact story for the origional game, if you dont like it then dont play it.
    It's a remake when it is convenient for your argument and it is a sequel when it is convenient for your argument.

    There is a reasonable middle ground between "1:1 remake" and "What if we replaced the story with all kinds of time travel and multiple timeline fuckery where you fight the god of fate at the beginning of the story?"

    The Resident Evil 2 and 3 remakes took huge liberties with the source material, especially 3. They were both unbelievable games that paid tribute to and respected the source material. FF7R is an excuse for a bunch of writers to slap themselves on the back for being "clever" and coming up with absurd, outlandish, and ridiculous plot twists and contrivances. It is the worst kind of writing. Nothing they added in the department of timelines and fate horseshit does a single fucking thing to make a character more interesting or more developed. It's all meaningless garbage that adds nothing except a way for people who pride themselves on being "clever" to pretend that plot twists are what make storytelling good.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  10. #3530
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Just because people like Kingdom Hearts doesn't mean they like the broad story. People like the aesthetics and gameplay. The story is a complete cluserfuck that the vast majority of players never understand and laugh off.



    He's the director of the game.
    Most KH players actually do like the story. There was a poll done asking players what they liked most, and story was the most highly-rated answer.

    Nomura is the director of FFVII, but ironically he's the one who pushed for keeping the first entry of the remake closer to the original. The other, original FF7 writers wanted to deviate more than Nomura was comfortable with.

    https://gamingbolt.com/final-fantasy...original-story

  11. #3531
    Quote Originally Posted by Soeroah View Post
    Most KH players actually do like the story. There was a poll done asking players what they liked most, and story was the most highly-rated answer.

    Nomura is the director of FFVII, but ironically he's the one who pushed for keeping the first entry of the remake closer to the original. The other, original FF7 writers wanted to deviate more than Nomura was comfortable with.

    https://gamingbolt.com/final-fantasy...original-story
    Most KH players aren't taking polls about the game. Get real.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  12. #3532
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Most KH players aren't taking polls about the game. Get real.
    Still a more scientific metric than your making a broad statement with nothing backing it up.

  13. #3533
    Quote Originally Posted by Soeroah View Post
    Most KH players actually do like the story. There was a poll done asking players what they liked most, and story was the most highly-rated answer.

    Nomura is the director of FFVII, but ironically he's the one who pushed for keeping the first entry of the remake closer to the original. The other, original FF7 writers wanted to deviate more than Nomura was comfortable with.

    https://gamingbolt.com/final-fantasy...original-story
    I wish nomura would have gotten his way, I was hoping for a faithful, but more fleshed out, true remake.

  14. #3534
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Hard to disrespect something that was a joke of a story to begin with and is only now being fleshed out.
    I'm not a gigantic fan of the original FF7. It's one of the reasons I was hoping to see it updated and fleshed out, rather than turned into an excuse for contrived plot twists.

    Oh found the guy still mad about Raiden being the main character in MGS2 cause it was false advertising instead of enjoying it for being one of the best swerves in industry history.
    MGS2 is amazing. I'm not sure what you are rambling about.

    Keeping things secret is a good thing, having your entire game spoiled by marketing just so you can't get on your soap box and cry about "false advertising" doesn't change this fact. Everything they showed in the marketing was in the game, they didn't false advertise anything sorry you got mad about nothing.
    You guys do it over and over again. It's a remake when it is convenient for your arguments and it is a sequel when it is convenient for your arguments. I'm not surprised by the dishonesty at this point, since you are basically arguing that dishonesty deserves to be rewarded.

    Literally every story Nomura has ever produced outside of FFVII is better than original FFVII, and he has produced some complete stinkers so... Sorry not sorry. Bonus points to the fact you clearly don't even know FFVII was co written by Nomura and Sakaguchi in the first place since you think he is "disrespecting" his own source material lmfao.
    Nomura was not a co-writer on FF7. He was a scenario writer who had some input on the story sure, but pretending he was jointly one of the primary writers is just a lie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soeroah View Post
    Still a more scientific metric than your making a broad statement with nothing backing it up.
    It's not scientific. At all. It is literally saying "Well the most hardcore fans like it!" Wow, no shit!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    I wish nomura would have gotten his way, I was hoping for a faithful, but more fleshed out, true remake.
    I think you guys are wildly misreading that story. There is no indication that he didn't want the horseshit in the game. He just wanted to make sure other things were kept in too.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  15. #3535
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Just because people like Kingdom Hearts doesn't mean they like the broad story. People like the aesthetics and gameplay. The story is a complete cluserfuck that the vast majority of players never understand and laugh off.
    A lot of people actually DO like the story. Saying it ain't so doesn't make it true just because you got some weird hate boner.

  16. #3536
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    It's not scientific. At all. It is literally saying "Well the most hardcore fans like it!" Wow, no shit!
    And newer players. Honestly, the most people I've seen talking trash about the story are people who either don't like JRPGs or anime tropes, or the long-time players who had to wait a year between releases across multiple consoles. I haven't seen many people who don't care about the story but still enjoy the gameplay since the games came to PC.

    In fact a lot of the newer streamers who enjoy the story entirely skip a couple of the games and just watch the cutscenes so they can see the important stuff without having to play a game they don't enjoy playing.
    Last edited by Soeroah; 2022-06-18 at 06:59 PM.

  17. #3537
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    A lot of people actually DO like the story. Saying it ain't so doesn't make it true just because you got some weird hate boner.
    I didn't say nobody likes it. I'm sure thousands and thousands and thousands of people do, but it is a fact that the story requires hours of research to even make a fraction of sense out of it and the vast majority of people are not doing that.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  18. #3538
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    There is a reasonable middle ground between "1:1 remake" and "What if we replaced the story with all kinds of time travel and multiple timeline fuckery where you fight the god of fate at the beginning of the story?"
    Multiple timelines existed in the VII universe since at least 12 years before VII Remake even came out, even then it might of been planned for even longer than that but only became clear and obvious with advent children.

    If Nomura really wanted to go full rogue and do his full blown BS he would fully connect VII to Versus XIII since they are already clearly connected with the meteor and diamond weapon existing in both worlds(and probably a hell of a lot more that got cut in it's transition to XV). That ain't gonna happen though, so acting like he has full control over the story is laughable.

  19. #3539
    Quote Originally Posted by Soeroah View Post
    He won't believe you. Look at his response to the information about Nomura and FF7. "There's no indication he didn't want that horseshit in the game". There's more indication of that than there is that he did want it, but that doesn't matter because he's already decided Nomura Bad and it's all his fault. Facts don't matter, only his conclusion and whatever supports it.
    The indication is that all of the garbage they added is remarkably similar to the garbage that made KH a mess.

    Not everything they added is garbage. The extra Jesse stuff is phenomenol, but the bad stuff is right in Nomura's wheelhouse.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  20. #3540
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I didn't say nobody likes it. I'm sure thousands and thousands and thousands of people do, but it is a fact that the story requires hours of research to even make a fraction of sense out of it and the vast majority of people are not doing that.
    TBH I've watched a few streamers play through the series for the first time since the PC ports came out and they've been able to follow it fairly well just playing the games and reading the in-game journal entries.

    I think people overblow how difficult it is because of the time between releases. If you marathon the games one after the other so things are fresher in your mind, it lines up a lot easier and makes sense. Not perfect sense, because there are a few things that are convoluted, but a hell of a lot more sense than the meme critiques suggest.

    It's, perhaps ironically, the kind of story that's more difficult to follow if you try to reason things about before the games are ready to tell you than if you just play through it and let it tell you what you need when you need it.

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