June 30th Patch Datamined

[Nerraw]

What's up with polymorph not being affected by CC reduction %?
That seems like a blatant (and unneeded) Brightwing buff.

The base duration of Poly got cut down some though.

[r3d3mpt10n]

I meant for like pub stomping in quick matches. Full retard AA Zeratul soloing 2 people at once seems pretty plausible with that much life steal.



Its a nerf. 1.5 seconds vs 2 attacks over 4 seconds. No one can attack 3 times in 1.5 seconds except Illy in lvl 20 demon form. That's assuming you are just full autoing the entire duration and not using any abilities or moving. It's also much easier to wait out 1.5 seconds before attacking than 4 seconds. Lili's is at least all attacks for 2 seconds instead of 1.5, which isn't bad. Regen master, as someone pointed out earlier, is only better after ~20 globes acquired, meaning its not even as good as it was until late game.

Wrong on the Johanna point, Illy in Demon form, and as you even said yourself the pubstorm Zeratul, I believe Shadow Assault makes him attack as fast as, if not faster than Ilidan in lvl 20 demon form.

Granted, that's just incase it happens. Either way I imagine a lot of the AA characters can attack atleast 2 times in 1.5 seconds, Tychus can, Raynor with Inspire up maybe, Valla with stacks of Rancor is also possible in an AA build. Vallas attackspeed is fast, so Johannas change helps with those heroes too. Its basically dependant on how some heroes build, but the change helps her vs certain ones irregardless.

Infact with a 0.67 attack speed from Tychus, its amazing vs him. since his trait lowers his attack speed.

[Feali]

Removing Sprint from Jaina is so stupid. Like really? Do we need another Kael'thas?

[Lesane]

I agree. I only really took envenom on Sylvanas, no idea what I'd even wanna take as a replacement for it now, all of them just feel "okay"... Compared to Jaina, Kael and Nazeebo, all of them have worthwhile talents at level 4. As for promote, I'm assuming they nerfed it because alot of people disliked it.

The Envenom nerf really screws over Thrall and Kerrigan who depended on it more than any other hero. And Thrall was already bottom tier.

Also, seems Rehgar and Malf get cleanse now. That's a good change at least. Of course Lili doesn't get it because they want to keep heroes intentionally bad by making them easy to play and limiting their choices because they're "tutorial" heroes (see Raynor for example), which will make her even worse than she is in comparison to the other healers.

[Sliske]

Removing Sprint from Jaina is so stupid. Like really? Do we need another Kael'thas?

The problem is she could have both. But yeah still a problem in that Kael'Thas is dead if anyone goes on him pre 20.

[Hand Banana]

Wrong on the Johanna point, Illy in Demon form, and as you even said yourself the pubstorm Zeratul, I believe Shadow Assault makes him attack as fast as, if not faster than Ilidan in lvl 20 demon form.

Granted, that's just incase it happens. Either way I imagine a lot of the AA characters can attack atleast 2 times in 1.5 seconds, Tychus can, Raynor with Inspire up maybe, Valla with stacks of Rancor is also possible in an AA build. Vallas attackspeed is fast, so Johannas change helps with those heroes too. Its basically dependant on how some heroes build, but the change helps her vs certain ones irregardless.

Infact with a 0.67 attack speed from Tychus, its amazing vs him. since his trait lowers his attack speed.

Tychus auto's is correct I sort of forgot about him, then again his auto's aren't something thats really a problem. Anyone else you need to do that math; to get 3 attacks in 1.5 seconds you need 2.0 attacks per second as a atk speed. Full AA Valla (lol) with 10 stacks is 1.9 atk/sec. Zeratul with shadow assault is 1.3 atks/sec. Raynor w/ inspire is 1.6. Again this all assuming people are just standing and AA'ing without moving or using abilities and don't wait out the short duration. Decent players will use the downtime to reposition anyway as before, but now won't have to wait so long or be forced to miss the 2 shots.

[r3d3mpt10n]

Jaina wont have the same problems, she actually has slows, so has a bit more survivability than kael in that respect. however, id say its not too much better than Kaels Gravity Lapse.

Sylvanas also really depended on Envenom in most cases, since it was a bursty for her, and gave her a lot more damage. I think the Haunting Wave Refills will be the talent to go to then, but it will make her weaker

[Nanaboostme]

How exactly do the talent changes work with the new additions? Will there be more to choose from per level or are they removing some?

[Alopex]

They remove to make room for the new ones

[Mormolyce]

Don't know why they'd nerf towers, they're pretty papery as it is.

Slight Brightwing nerfs - makes sense. Illidan's meta "pop" does less damage, that's probably for the best. Shield Glare reduced duration, that's a frigging relief. Similar change to LiLi which I'm fine with since I talent it anyway :P

Malf has some nice changes. Slight nerf to Syl's arrow and buffs to Possession, dunno if it'll be enough though.

Looks like a substantial talent redesign for TLV, though I'm not sure how to read it. Will have to wait until it's finalised.

Interesting stuff, although I'm disappointed with the Abathur changes datamined. The buffs are so darn small that it's pretty insignificant.

I'm pretty sure that bombard strain/toxic nest "buff" is just a hiccup in the datamining comparison routine :P

- - - Updated - - -

BfB and Envenom nerfs make the game much less bursty at 4 and 16.

I also think these are needed because they're too good and non-hero-specific talents being auto-picks on a lot of heroes is pretty boring.

I don't understand them buffing Kael, I mean I play Kael and I love him but even I recognize that he's a bit OP now

His LB being on a shorter CD will really make fuck all difference.

[Simulacrum]

Sylv's arrow could do no damage and it would still be better.

Maybe if they made it do no damage AND possession was global AND possession buffed the stolen minions by a lot, or some other combination of enormous buffs to possession on top of nefs to arrow, it might be worth taking in some situations, but until they do it's going to remain a horrible ability.

[Feali]

I also think these are needed because they're too good and non-hero-specific talents being auto-picks on a lot of heroes is pretty boring.

Hits Kerrigan pretty hard though since her other talents are pretty shit.

[Mormolyce]

Sylv's arrow could do no damage and it would still be better.

Well, yes and no. They're clearly divided into "teamfight" vs "lane pusher" ideals and even outside of how strong Arrow is most people are going to prefer the former to the latter. But if they were closely balanced it would at least be an option.

Hits Kerrigan pretty hard though since her other talents are pretty shit.

I guess you'd take one of the splash damage abilities instead. Does reduce her single target though, maybe she'll get a buff elsewhere.

I feel like that tier could be better just in general.

[Deleted]

What I do hate about playing TLW is that they have such amazing talent to be traded off their Q W E abilities. Imo talents should be slighly altered and Q W E should come boxstandard as any other hero.

[Hand Banana]

Well, yes and no. They're clearly divided into "teamfight" vs "lane pusher" ideals and even outside of how strong Arrow is most people are going to prefer the former to the latter. But if they were closely balanced it would at least be an option.

The problem is by nerfing envenom they basically made possession worse. Paralysis will probably be the new go to and that favors Wailing Arrow in my opinion. Most people already take Unstable Poison and with Paralysis as well whats the point of possession in the first place? It's counter-intuitive to her kit and the talent setup. I guess I could see her running maybe a merc lord possession pusher build?

[Nekovivie]

Liking the Malfurion changes. I think he'll be pretty potent now. Been a subpar choice compared to Rehgar, Uther and Brightwing for far too long.

[Ryme]

Tower nerfs make no sense, they needed substantial buffs if you ask me. Love the Malfurion love, always thought he needed it.

Disgusted with the promote nerfs

[Bakis]

Planned on buying Brightwing but now that I see the changes it is totally gutted and weak.
No sprint, no slow on sheep etc etc.

God damn they managed to ruin that hero's fun factor.

[Nekovivie]

Brightwing needed a little change. She was picked way too much. Her heal actually got buffed, it will now pulse more quickly and heal for more over time than it used to.

[r3d3mpt10n]

i don't think Brightwings changes are a nerf.. they've made her weaker a bit, but her healing could be insanely good now.

Thing about it is, she needs to use a lot of mana to do her good healing numbers, but what people seem to forget is that she can hearth back and teleport back into fights when there is downtime, theres absolutely no problem with that if you ask me.