Hellfire Citadel Encounter Discussion

[Deleted]

yeah but I don t think this will be a viable progressing spec, maybe on the high council with the nice drain soul execute.

You arent going to have time to drainsoul, at least if you're playing with the class trinket, until like the last mob.

[Jaman]

Why do you guys talk about playing affliction when this huge t18 nerf happened some days ago ?

Destru for days I think. Is the guide linked before takes this nerf in consideration ?
You guys all saw the sims. I know sims blablabla theory blablabla...but still.

Because very few of us have our 2pc t18 yet, and High Council is a fight tailor made for DoT classes. When deciding specs things may change when people get t18 and the class trinket, but in he meantime a lot of people are focused on doing what is best to progress now, and then they'll change and adapt later if needed. Blizzard may hotfix things based on the first couple of weeks of live data - nothing is set in stone yet.

If the guide you are referring to is Zagam's guide on Darkintentions.net, then yes it does take the t18 Affliction nerf into account. If you look at it closely, you'll see tried to simulate each fight in both t17 gear with a 700 item level and t18 mythic gear. Again those are only simulations and he may update his guide based on live experience and numbers - but I think High Council was the only fight where Affliction pulled out ahead on both numbers. If you look at his Destruction guide in more detail - he noted that Destruction seems to fall behind on 3 target fights. So at least initially it seems like High Council may be a fight where Affliction will shine.

Of course I think skill and how you're raid is doing will play a role - multi-dotting can be a challenge with Affliction and some people may have better results using Destruction to just focus on targets in the correct order. We had some problems (on normal) with pushing them below 30% too quickly (it was a very DoT heavy raid comp).

[Taalyn]

Anyone else have issues with Heroic Hellfire Assault with a raid in Heroic BRF gear? The fight seemed really overtuned.

[Astynax]

We did the first 6 in heroic. I dual specced Demo to see how the numbers run now and Afflic for ST

HFA - Demo actually doesnt do too bad here with the T17 4 set and cata/Gosyn due to being able to still CW spam. I expect this to change once I lose the T17 set bonus and be no longer viable for AoE burst spam. Adds come in waves that time well with Cataclysm. I didnt hit well with a few CWs and Cata due to mobs being moved, but expect higher DPS can be done. Destro played well likely to beat Demo, especially when new set bonuses become active
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...KMh4a8#fight=3

Reaver - I suckkkkkk at affliction, but due to high movement I expect it to be better than Destro. Range becomes an issue here when dropping off artillery and having to spread well for orbs. However, being afflic leaves you to be useless during bombs, where destro may excel. DoTs fall off between phasing and cannot be reapplied so DPS drop here.

Kormrok - Guy's name is the same forwards and backwards. Went Demo here for AoE burst and better movement with demo leap which helps when the ooze moves. Cannot totally stack up for hands as they doe damage to everyone within 4 yards. Didnt go Cataclysm but DS/GoServ then just CW the hands. Went ok, not the highest DPS but I suspect the higher parsing Demo locks on this fight went Cata just to pure hand pad like on Kromog, but getting people out early here has no penalty and gets people on boss faster

Council - Straight afflic encounter

Kilrogg/Gorefiend - grouping these 2 as its similar to have ST burst DPS on spread out adds. Neither afflic or demo is good here since adds are too spread for demo and afflic kills them too slow.

EDIT: I actually totally forgot demonbolt existed. I might end up trying this again for Reaver, Kilrogg and Gorefiend as well and just go Affliction on Tyrant & Council for another week before getting forced to destro.

[Runeshear]

Anyone else have issues with Heroic Hellfire Assault with a raid in Heroic BRF gear? The fight seemed really overtuned.

My group did. We could barely get adds down and would just be overrun. RAn normal and the fight is a freaking cakewalk. The step up in difficulty is pretty big.

[Taalyn]

My group did. We could barely get adds down and would just be overrun. RAn normal and the fight is a freaking cakewalk. The step up in difficulty is pretty big.

That's what we ran into. We're debating smashing it on normal or trying new strats/raid setup. We end up with 3 Berserker and 7 Flame casters after the second Siege.

[Koragon]

Aff when played well can't be touched on council. I was miles ahead of everyone else last night in heroic. Was kind of shocked actually. It is extremely strong on that fight and leads me to believe that any buffs Aff might get should be based around drain soul. One can hope.

Destro everywhere else. Btw bonus rolled heroic DSMI. The proc is just nasty.

[Turturin the Warlock]

Aff when played well can't be touched on council. I was miles ahead of everyone else last night in heroic. Was kind of shocked actually. It is extremely strong on that fight and leads me to believe that any buffs Aff might get should be based around drain soul. One can hope.

Destro everywhere else. Btw bonus rolled heroic DSMI. The proc is just nasty.

yeah, it can't be touched, except by shadowpriest and boomkin, the other multidot classes.

[Ultramad]

Did the first 3 solely on heroic last night with no preperation on our part. Was pretty fun. Obviously the first boss fell down, anyone with 30 people in any kind of 690 gear will one-shot that "boss." Second boss was definitely fun and required some actual planning of positioning. Destro ate up those bombs like you can't believe. Hacov + CB for days on those things. Seemed like a proc buffed havoc'd CB would take half the life of two bombs away. Delicious. Third boss I also ran destro and FnB was a godsend on hands. The first 3 on heroic are very easy and I'm sure we'll be having more fun tonight with the next 3!

Destro Destro Destro.

[mitbrandir]

Did 12/13 Normal tonight

Hellfire Assault: Destro cleave is very nice, but I felt like things were dying too fast for me to properly cleave with CBs, as I don't have the 2 set
Iron Reaver: Affi SB:H/Sac
Kormok: Destro. I could still get the FnB CBs off on the hands, didn't bother with mines.
Hellfire High Council: Affi SB:H/Sac
Killrog Deadeye: Destro. The cleave and CBs damage on the bloods and adds was nice to burn them down quickly.
Gorefiend: Destro. Havoc'd boss/big add and tried to cleave CB/SB as much as possible.
Shadow-Lord Iskar: Destro. FnB CB on the adds, 'nuff said.
Socrethar The Eternal: Played affliction, but destro would've worked aswell. Multidotted everything in sight.
Fel Lord Zakuun: Affi SB:H/Sac
Xhul'horac: Destro, lots of cleave and aoe'ing with the imps if gripped.
Tyrant Velhari: Played destro for cleave, wasn't sure which spec would be able to burst harder in the last phase, also thought about affi.
Mannoroth: Destro, lots of cleave to be done here.
Archimonde: Didn't kill it, but played destro for the cleave.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...R79Pwx#fight=1 I suppose I played alright, but nothing special or fancy.

[Styxxa]

We managed the first 5 heroic bosses. I went in with Destro/Affliction.

-Hellfire Assault is fun as Destro, Havoc on cooldown basically and Shadowburn heaven.
-Iron Reaver I played Affliction with Supremecy (Observer) and SB:Haunt. Reason I ended up on Observer was to have some pet damage rolling if I ended up out of range, but I imagine this was a raid positioning issue that we still have to work out. Affliction was nice because at least you have DoTs doing some damage during Blitz and not totally useless during Bombs - just dot them all up.
-Kormrok was Destro and it pulls its weight on hands for sure. Other lock in my group went Affliction and I even ended with more damage on the boss. He could be an Affliction noob though
-Hellfire High Council went Affliction with Supremacy (Observer) and SB:Haunt and even though I didn't really play too well while dealing with mechanics for the first time it still performed well. Basically just keep 3 DoTs and SB:Haunt up. Only Drain Soul a target when Haunt is up on it and don't let Agony fall off any target. Just DoT up as many of the mirror images. And during the ST push, try to keep just Agony up on the secondary target as long as it's not too close to 30%. (we managed to kill it even though we pushed the 2nd and 3rd bosses under 30% at the same time....)
-Kilrogg went Destro. But I'd say it's tougher to get Shadowburns off as most of the adds were melting. Certainly couldn't get 3x SB off. So I mostly Havoc'd with CB and sniped in some SB where available.
-Gorefiend is another Destro fight. Great down below on the adds.

Overall though... DKs, Hunters, Boomkins were running the show.. I felt middle of the pack for sure.

[Gaidax]

Assault - Destruction no-brainer
Iron Reaver Normal - Destruction, Heroic - Demonbolt
Kormrok - Demonbolt
Council - Demonbolt
Kilrogg - Destruction
Gorefiend - Destruction
Socrethar - Destruction
Tyrant - Demonbolt

As I pleasantly discovered with Mastery buff Demonbolt is very good in single target and council. Destruction is naturally good in any other case.

Overall pretty competitive, I'd say I was a guaranteed 3rd/4th, could do much better with Dbolt, need to relearn it.

[SpikeySquad]

Thanks for sharing all.

Axxym, on a fight like Iron Reaver where you have a boss that jumps around I would think that the Imp may do better DPS (if positioned well) rather then the eyeball trying to keep up to melee its target. This is just a feeling though, no evidence to back this up. For my group DK was the one that definitely stood out.

[Deleted]

As I pleasantly discovered with Mastery buff Demonbolt is very good in single target and council. Destruction is naturally good in any other case.

Overall pretty competitive, I'd say I was a guaranteed 3rd/4th, could do much better with Dbolt, need to relearn it.

That's nice to hear, I'd already swapped demo out for aff/destro since I thought DB would only start to shine once we had some of the fancy doodads from HFC. Good to hear that it might be decent right off the bat, it'd be a shame to get no use out of the nice new demon models.

Thanks for sharing all.

Axxym, on a fight like Iron Reaver where you have a boss that jumps around I would think that the Imp may do better DPS (if positioned well) rather then the eyeball trying to keep up to melee its target. This is just a feeling though, no evidence to back this up. For my group DK was the one that definitely stood out.

The difference between the imp and observer has been so minor for multiple expansions that I don't think I'd ever bother using the observer unless I needed an interupt.

[Cathbadh]

Anyone else have issues with Heroic Hellfire Assault with a raid in Heroic BRF gear? The fight seemed really overtuned.

We did. Normal seems insanely undertuned and heroic seems a bit overtuned. That said I have a feeling that our problem (and possibly yours) was 2-3 DPS going aoe/cleave crazy and not single targeting the warlock adds like they were supposed to, that or blowing 2-3 minute CDs to inflate numbers on dragoons rather than siege machines or again the warlock adds.

[Soulzar]

Aff when played well can't be touched on council. I was miles ahead of everyone else last night in heroic. Was kind of shocked actually. It is extremely strong on that fight and leads me to believe that any buffs Aff might get should be based around drain soul. One can hope.

I am wondering how good Affliction really is on this fight outside of parsing well. How much priority dmg are you doing to the sub 30% boss when you're juggling dots on 2 off targets? Both Destro/Demo seem much better suited for pumping out burst dmg on those targets, as well as when you get picked by Bloodboil for big dick deeps mode. Outside of beating the enrage timer... multi target dmg doesn't seem very important.

[xuros]

Assault - Destruction no-brainer
Iron Reaver Normal - Destruction, Heroic - Demonbolt
Kormrok - Demonbolt
Council - Demonbolt
Kilrogg - Destruction
Gorefiend - Destruction
Socrethar - Destruction
Tyrant - Demonbolt

As I pleasantly discovered with Mastery buff Demonbolt is very good in single target and council. Destruction is naturally good in any other case.

Overall pretty competitive, I'd say I was a guaranteed 3rd/4th, could do much better with Dbolt, need to relearn it.

Good to know. Think I'll need to try it out more next week. Went Destro for everything cept Council and the big ghost looking guy with the imps and shadows (forgot its name!). Only have Mannaroth and Archimonde left.

[Deleted]

On heroic, we did that pool last. The hands didn't even spawn

- - - Updated - - -

I feel that Destruction is pretty good on every fight basicly. No need to switch to affliction/Demo DB just yet.
Set changes and/or trinkets might change this. But for now I will play Destruction up till Archimonde.
Despite me hating Destruction alot (I was a Demo fanboy)

- - - Updated - - -

We did. Normal seems insanely undertuned and heroic seems a bit overtuned. That said I have a feeling that our problem (and possibly yours) was 2-3 DPS going aoe/cleave crazy and not single targeting the warlock adds like they were supposed to, that or blowing 2-3 minute CDs to inflate numbers on dragoons rather than siege machines or again the warlock adds.

We are mythic geared and had no issues with Hellfire Assault at all (one-shot) there were however some parts in the fight that were a bit stressy on the healers. I think this was when one of the adds transformed. Is that what you talk about?

[Drutt]

We are mythic geared and had no issues with Hellfire Assault at all (one-shot) there were however some parts in the fight that were a bit stressy on the healers. I think this was when one of the adds transformed. Is that what you talk about?

In non-mythic gear (i.e. a 10/10H only guild that doesn't raid mythic), HFA is pretty brutal. You just cannot keep up with the adds and eventually get overwhelmed. The effect is similar to doing Blast Furnace while undergeared.

Normal was just laughable in comparison. Everyone was goofing off, it was that easy.

It feels like heroic HFA was tuned so that it's quite easily doable in mythic BRF gear, but extraordinarily difficult for heroic guilds at around 685-90 raid ilevel.

[evertonbelmontt]

Yeah, they should clarify this. Until now I was pretty sure that Normal > HC > Mythic wasn't supposed to be a "stairway", but different challenges for different people/audience. Majority of guilds who clear HC do not go to Mythic (because of 20 ppl required or difficulty) and a lot of people who clear Normal can't get AotC.

Now, with the way the raids are presented, and loot is scaled, I think they changed their mind. Beating Archimonde on normal is now the best way to clear HC.