1. #1

    Where Blizzard failed and how to fix disc.

    Hello this posts will consist of two parts. The first is Blizzards failed promise on more smooth out raid damage. And the second part will consist on how to fix disc. Ofcourse keep in mind all of this is my opinion, and I'm interested to see how you look at it.

    Unkept promise
    Blizzard stated that during the development of WoD they wanted raid damage to smooth out, instead of bursts, where you needed to heal the person back up asap. Let's take a look at BRF, a great raid, half of the raid is well done in concern of smooth our raid damage.
    But let's take a look where fights have a mandatory or close to mandatory disc. Gruul, maidens, furnace, and blackhand. The reason disc is mandatory here is because it all consist of burst damage. Why did blizzard not smooth this damage out as was their intent? I personally feel blizzard could have turned alot of those high damage instant into Dots.

    Dots Or well know as damage over time is pretty much the equivallent of smooth out raid damage. For example at gruul, they could've made the impact slice way less straight up. And instead made the 30 second debuff a Ramp-up DoT. I feel this change would still make disc strong on this fight but less mandatory. I also feel it wouldn't impact the healing fun level for this boss. And infact think they it might be more enjoyable for other healers.

    Same for maidens, turn the damage from blade dash into a dot, disc would still be powerfull, but not mandatory.
    Now I'm not vouching to turn every damage into a dot. But why if your intent is to smooth out raid damage, are there so few dots, and so many high instant damage abilities.

    I feel disc would not lose alot of it's power here and it would make it more enjoyable for other healers. Blizzard also stated that with 20 man mythic they can expect to bring every class to the party. And it's fine to revolve a fight around disc, but it is mandatory on to many fights and above all It's not fun. Maidens imo is boring as hell.

    One of the counter arguments could be that while disc has the shield up the target wouldn't need healing for some time, thus making it boring for other healers. While if there is a huge burst, even if most is soaked by the disc, targets would still needer sooner healing. The only thing changing is that the majority of the healing then comes at the end of the dot mechanic instead of instantly when the mechanic is present. Nor am I saying that they should be very long lasting dots either. If the DoT alone is 5 seconds. Then disc would already lose some preshield power.

    Short version Dots would smooth out raid damage more and make disc less mandatory.

    How to fix Disc
    Next to the fact[Citation needed] that disc is currently really strong, it's also mindblowingly boring. Here are some ideas that I feel would make the spec much more enjoyable, use more spells. But the downside is it is more proc dependent

    First, nerf Pw: S around 20-25% (Numbers are ofcourse debatable)
    Secondly, casting Penance has a 30% chance to make your next PoH cost 50% less mana and have a 33% lower cast time.
    Thirdly, Whenever PoM heals a target there is a 15% chance to make your next Holy nova heal 100% more and has it's range increased to 30 yards.

    The main idea here is more synvergy wich promoted more different spells usage, instead of our current interesting pw: s spam. The downside is the proc dependent of it. However you could also make it a stacking buff, each time PoM heals a target Holy nova heals 20% more and has it's range increased by 5 yards. Or any of the likes.

    I'm very interested to hear your opinion on this. The main reason I wrote this is because disc is currently so boring, I can't focus with it. You could litterly make a mouseovermacro for pw: s and bind it to the middle mouse. And just keep scrolling while watching the tele.

    Small Holy rant
    I'm fine with the fact the archimonde trinket is shit. But the way it is currently implented is just a massive insult. I also feel holy needs the disc passive to have 30% more healing on GH and FH. Hell we wouldn't notice the difference at all, yet is imo something holy dearly needs.
    Last edited by Mazeari; 2015-06-24 at 01:40 PM.

  2. #2
    Power word shield needs to have something that makes it viable to use occasionally but not constantly - either charges or something like rapture where every 12 seconds you get a free one but otherwise it costs a lot of mana. As is it is too hard to make it viable but not spammable. I'd be ok with buffing its healing even.

    I don't think holy nova is a viable spell. The positioning requirement makes it useless on most fights, unless you can cast it on a target.

    I'd vote to remove POH's party requirement, make it work more like WG where it heals random damaged party members, and buff it for disc. No one even bothers casting the spell anymore because the party requirement makes it hard to avoid massive overhealing.

    Then I'd remove COW because it is too good at cheesing spike damage mechanics.

    To bring other classes in line, I'd nerf tranq, revival, and htt significantly (like 70% nerfs) because those spells are way too bursty and strong, making it difficult for disc to compete without spam absorbs.

    You want to end up with a class that isn't completely useless as a throughput healer (through POH) but whose niche is a powerful absorb they can use occasionally to help deal with high damage mechanics, and the best damage reduction cds in the game. In other words, the cataclysm disc priest!

  3. #3
    Legendary! Zka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    hungary
    Posts
    6,698
    I'm not bored playing disc, maybe it depends on group comp and difficulty. On our casual heroic level I do lot more than just spamming pws.

    PoH party limit should definitely be removed. It's probably the last partywide effect in the game, it's clunky as fuck.

  4. #4
    Oh and another thing - I'd reduce the cast time, mana, and healing of heal in half. 2 second casts are just too long.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zka View Post
    I'm not bored playing disc, maybe it depends on group comp and difficulty. On our casual heroic level I do lot more than just spamming pws.

    PoH party limit should definitely be removed. It's probably the last partywide effect in the game, it's clunky as fuck.
    At a high level, PWS makes up about 60-70% of a disc's healing.

  5. #5
    Deleted
    On our casual heroic level I do lot more than just spamming pws.
    Doin it wrong then.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    Power word shield needs to have something that makes it viable to use occasionally but not constantly - either charges or something like rapture where every 12 seconds you get a free one but otherwise it costs a lot of mana. As is it is too hard to make it viable but not spammable. I'd be ok with buffing its healing even.
    Oh that is very easy and the idea is years old, too. Just have it stack up a short timed (~3s), cost increasing debuff whenever it is cast. That way you can still use it back to back but spamming gets progressively more expensive.

  7. #7
    Fixing disc is very easy...nerf PWS by 20%, and give us a raid healing cooldown. And maybe buff POH slightly or make it non group/smart based.

    This will literally solve all the PWS > 50% of our healing issues.

  8. #8
    Clarity of Will is a great spell and I don't like any change that gets rid of it. I favor making the spec more of a pure absorb, less throughput (with perhaps a secondary mode to switch to for throughput). So far in progression fights in Hellfire Citadel the spec feels fine as far as balance compared to the other healers. Power Word: Shield is overpowered WITHIN THE SPEC, but that's a intra-spec balance issue, with the best solution imo being to make PWS less spammable and give us more absorb spells to provide alternatives to casting PWS. I'm fine with the "charges" idea for PWS, but we need more viable absorb spells to provide alternatives. One solution is to move Clarity of Will to the main toolkit, so we can weave CoW casts around waiting for PWS to re-charge, although a 3rd or even 4th absorb spell would help round out the toolkit. If PWS is to change from being spammable on the move then we need one more useful spell that can be cast on the move.

    The reason for making Disc a pure absorb spec is that the entire mindset of an absorb healer is to mitigate damage which has not yet happened, very different from throughput healers who refill health bars after damage has happened. It would destroy an entire healing mindset to make more of disc's healing throughput and less absorbs - again, part of the solution is to make disc more of an absorb healer. Bliz's spec strategy in general should be to create more variability, not less. We already have five throughput healers - we don't need a 6th.
    Last edited by Yunzi; 2015-06-27 at 01:39 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Yunzi View Post
    Clarity of Will is a great spell and I don't like any change that gets rid of it. I favor making the spec more of a pure absorb, less throughput (with perhaps a secondary mode to switch to for throughput). So far in progression fights in Hellfire Citadel the spec feels fine as far as balance compared to the other healers. Power Word: Shield is overpowered WITHIN THE SPEC, but that's a intra-spec balance issue, with the best solution imo being to make PWS less spammable and give us more absorb spells to provide alternatives to casting PWS. I'm fine with the "charges" idea for PWS, but we need more viable absorb spells to provide alternatives. One solution is to move Clarity of Will to the main toolkit, so we can weave CoW casts around waiting for PWS to re-charge, although a 3rd or even 4th absorb spell would help round out the toolkit. If PWS is to change from being spammable on the move then we need one more useful spell that can be cast on the move.

    The reason for making Disc a pure absorb spec is that the entire mindset of an absorb healer is to mitigate damage which has not yet happened, very different from throughput healers who refill health bars after damage has happened. It would destroy an entire healing mindset to make more of disc's healing throughput and less absorbs - again, part of the solution is to make disc more of an absorb healer. Bliz's spec strategy in general should be to create more variability, not less. We already have five throughput healers - we don't need a 6th.
    Problem is that is not blizzards mindset. Currently if you dont have a disc priest in raid your gimping yourself. It will always be that way when we are the only absorb based healer. Blizzard wants the "you can bring any class you want and still be viable" strategy so they will most likely nerf our absorbs to the ground and give us some throughput spells.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by jstefanop View Post
    Problem is that is not blizzards mindset. Currently if you dont have a disc priest in raid your gimping yourself. It will always be that way when we are the only absorb based healer. Blizzard wants the "you can bring any class you want and still be viable" strategy so they will most likely nerf our absorbs to the ground and give us some throughput spells.
    The problem is that absorbs are a great unique mechanic and Bliz is highly unlikely to replace it with something better. If they did come up with a new type of healing, it would be nice to add it to a different spec to go alongside absorb/throughput.

    If Disc priests wanted to play a throughput spec they would already be doing so. The argument of shielding increasing effective health and therefore being better than throughput healing is true, as long as that player takes damage and uses the shield, which is why Disc priests are such good tank healers, second only to Holy Paladins.

    To counter absorbs "being better" than throughput, limitations exist such as the 15 second limit on PWS, the Weakened Soul debuff, and the 20 second limit on Clarity of Will. Throughput healing has no such limitations - the biggest problem they face is heal sniping.

    It's insidious and of great concern to me when non-disc priests who don't appreciate playing the spec frequently call for an end to absorbs, whereas if the problem is imbalance there are many possible solutions more appealing, such as charges for PWS, reducing the timer on PWS from 15 seconds, or a higher mana cost for PWS.

    We have 5 throughput specs all too happy to call for an "end" to Disc as we know it, with a "mere" one spec desiring that it's unique brand of healing be continued (or as I believe, expanded), merely in a modified form.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Yunzi View Post
    To counter absorbs "being better" than throughput, limitations exist such as the 15 second limit on PWS, the Weakened Soul debuff, and the 20 second limit on Clarity of Will. Throughput healing has no such limitations - the biggest problem they face is heal sniping.
    You mean 13 seconds, because any halfway decent disc priest glyphs weakened soul. And CoW doesn't have a limit, it does have a duration, but there is no CD, just a cast time.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •