Mythic Hellfire Assault Help

[baoluvboa]

Hey guys,

My guild has been progressing on Mythic Hellfire Assault. Our recent attempts are making to the 7:45-8:00 marks but the boss isn't dead. He was at 1% multiple times. By this point we are overwhelmed with tanks down and we are just kiting waiting for the cannon to fire. How is some guild killing him at around 7:15-7:30 marks? Are we not pushing boss phases fast enough or are we missing crates?

Here are our parses on the boss:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Ym4J8FhLbz9rGBvy

[Deleted]

If you're wondered why the fight is lasting longer than it is for other guilds then there is 1 thing your raiders should know.

The fight may seem like an aoe fight but it really is not. It's about single target burning down priority targets. The dagons are pretty irrelevant and people whose single target damage doesn't benefit from aoe are blowing globals on aoeing them rather than attacking the cannon/berserkers/sub 50% fel casters.

Don't get me wrong, dagons can die but if you want the fight to last shorter than people shouldn't be focusing on blowing their load on them if you're having issues with the fight lasting too long.

Especially at the end of the fight where there are a shitton of adds to aoe but you only need like 1 or 2 more crates to finish the fight. Near the end of the fight you should be focusing ALL OF YOUR DAMAGE into the cannons. and fuck everything else.

[Pennoyer]

Hey guys,

My guild has been progressing on Mythic Hellfire Assault. Our recent attempts are making to the 7:45-8:00 marks but the boss isn't dead. He was at 1% multiple times. By this point we are overwhelmed with tanks down and we are just kiting waiting for the cannon to fire. How is some guild killing him at around 7:15-7:30 marks? Are we not pushing boss phases fast enough or are we missing crates?

Here are our parses on the boss:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Ym4J8FhLbz9rGBvy

You can't really 'miss' crates since they last like 10 minutes and the encounter is shorter than that (at least that I'm aware of). You might be overloading the cannons and losing ammo. Each crate adds something like 30 or 40 ammo to the cannon, and the cannon itself only shoots 10 energy at at time. So if a guy brings a crate to a cannon that's at 90 ammo then it goes to 100 and you lose out on a few shots. This is particularly a concern because the lull in the fight after the Grand Corruptor + Grute wave is an ideal time to load the crates, so you might have raiders who are being overeager and loading up too much.

You might notice this here on 1 attempt: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...2&end=12143279. I didn't look over the replay to see exactly who was doing what, but having 5 Felfire Munitions debuffs over the course of 16 seconds could mean that your guys are just running way too many crates to the same cannon too quickly. I'd look into that more deeply to make sure they aren't doing that. Your boss mod should provide unit frames to show the cannons' energy + cast bar so you can better track what the cannons are up to.

The third set of vehicles AFTER Grute dies *should* be the last ammo you need to finish the encounter. It spawns at 7 minutes so if you just burn them and load their ammo you can just survive until the end. At this point, I think the encounter hits a soft enrage where it starts throwing Bersekers at you until your tanks eventually die (although there is another vehicle spawn shortly after 7 minutes that you can potentially use for some additional ammo if you can somehow survive that long).

[baoluvboa]

Thanks for the detailed response Pennoyer. After looking at the parses again, I believe our issue was actually not running the crates during phase 2 because of how hectic it is which causes a down time in the cannon firing between 3:30-4:30. Hope this helps anyone else who is progressing on this.

[Pennoyer]

Thanks for the detailed response Pennoyer. After looking at the parses again, I believe our issue was actually not running the crates during phase 2 because of how hectic it is which causes a down time in the cannon firing between 3:30-4:30. Hope this helps anyone else who is progressing on this.

Assuming 3:30-4:30 is the Grand Corruptor and Grute phase (I believe 3:00 is when the drill and transporter spawn), I'd actually recommend that no one runs ammo during that time. It's probably the most throughput intensive check of the encounter, so you guys should really just focus on killing everything that spawns and surviving their abilities.

The couple of waves after Grute's spawn are pretty mellow, though. For like a minute you just get a Berserker, a couple Felcasters, some Dragoons, etc. Here is where you should space out running the crates at your own leisure, since this is the part of the encounter where you get to chill out after a fairly intense phase. As long as people don't run them all at the same time you should have a fair amount of time before post-Grute Vehicles #1 spawn again.

[Deleted]

what priority do you guys put the berserkers? I'm ok playing my protadin because i can bubble them off if needed but our blood dk seems to be having massive problems with gaining too many stacks, here's our log on the few attempts we made last night on the fight

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&fight=21

is it just too much meter padding?

[CptAwesome]

what priority do you guys put the berserkers? I'm ok playing my protadin because i can bubble them off if needed but our blood dk seems to be having massive problems with gaining too many stacks, here's our log on the few attempts we made last night on the fight

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&fight=21

is it just too much meter padding?

In most cases you will have a beserker spawn soon after a siege vehicle so the priority should be siege then beserker. Things like engineers and dragoons should never be touched unless it is a single target gain or there is nothing else up. To be very clear on this, don't even cleave them if there is a beserker up and it does not increase your single target dps.

With that said, your DK is only getting around 4 stacks. That should be perfectly survivable with sensible play on his part, he will need some sort of cooldown but it's not devastating. He also has the option of just kiting the beserker after 3 stacks. Hit death's advance and run in a wide circle so the dps can still hit it and it won't be doing any damage at all. Also, you have two other paladins besides yourself, one of them could just BoP him to remove stacks if he needs it but at least on my tries it did not feel necessary unless people were dead so the stacks went up to 5 or 6.

[Deleted]

he's the one that keeps on dying, he reaches 4 stacks and just melts which obviously is a wipe for everyone. he's reaching about 4 stacks when the berserker is around 50-60% lol so i think it def needs more focus on both sides as i'm reaching about 4 stacks then bubbling and getting back up to another 4 stacks

[Deleted]

Just to add, tell you disc to go CoW. Tank damage is very high and theres no reason not too, WoM is just meter whoring in this case and doesn´t save anyone.

[Deleted]

Yeah he will be next time only had 5 attempts at it which is ok to sort out what we're doing wrong, looks like the "right side" group had some terrible berserker damage leading to our tank getting 5+ stacks when the berserker had 50% hp left to go lol. will drop from 5 to 4 healers as well

[Tygerlily177]

Just to add, tell you disc to go CoW. Tank damage is very high and theres no reason not too, WoM is just meter whoring in this case and doesn´t save anyone.

When is WoM ever meter whoring?

Priests don't use WoM for the 5% healing it provides. Priests use WoM because if they need to blanket the raid with shields, they don't have time to cast a 2 second-long CoW, and so WoM is better than nothing at all.

You're giving the right advice, but for the wrong reasons.

Tell him that if he wants his priest to use CoW, he will be sacrificing raid healing. Not the WoM healing, the Power Word: Shield healing. Because for every 2 seconds spent on CoW, there are fewer shields going out. However, since the beacon heals don't reach both sides, it might be worth the sacrifice (assuming that the other raid healer on that side can manage).

That said, I think that switching the paladin healer to the DKs side is the only change they need to make for healing. In my experience, if DPS priorities are done right, tank deaths are not an issue.

[Deleted]

When is WoM ever meter whoring?

Always? I mean a PoM won´t save people, its just a little tiny boost in healing when its allowed to jump enough. That doesn´t mean its always worth to spec CoW, when tank damage just isn´t really high or you have 2 holy palas and such. But in this case tank damage is high and they got their holy pala on the other side. Depending how they handle the fight and tank class he might not even have to cast CoW all the time but even if he casts it a few times its a nice little buffer on the tank with high stacks and overwhelming adds.

Im healing with a pala and warrior tank so i probably cant compare it to dk/monk/druid tanks. But from my experience i had to spam CoW alot on this fight for the pala tank to even survive the damage and just so our druid could heal up the raid and even help on tank dmg while i use pw.s/poh/cascade in between Cow casts.

Also if this fight is done well there will be more tank damage then raid damage regardless.

[NoClueWhatToDo]

If you're wondered why the fight is lasting longer than it is for other guilds then there is 1 thing your raiders should know.

The fight may seem like an aoe fight but it really is not. It's about single target burning down priority targets. The dagons are pretty irrelevant and people whose single target damage doesn't benefit from aoe are blowing globals on aoeing them rather than attacking the cannon/berserkers/sub 50% fel casters.

Don't get me wrong, dagons can die but if you want the fight to last shorter than people shouldn't be focusing on blowing their load on them if you're having issues with the fight lasting too long.

Especially at the end of the fight where there are a shitton of adds to aoe but you only need like 1 or 2 more crates to finish the fight. Near the end of the fight you should be focusing ALL OF YOUR DAMAGE into the cannons. and fuck everything else.

LOL! My guild can't even get below 80% without our towers dying.

[Tygerlily177]

Always? I mean a PoM won´t save people, its just a little tiny boost in healing when its allowed to jump enough.

Again, no one cares about WoM's healing. If priests are using CoW, they are casting less PW:S. If you think that WoM is meter whoring, then you believe that casting PW:S is meter whoring because both are 100% linked. I don't have a problem with you telling others that they should use CoW when tank damage is higher than raid damage, but I do have a problem with you spreading false information.

they got their holy pala on the other side.

This is exactly what I said. This is the reason that you should have given in the first place. I would be pissed off if my raid leader told me to use CoW because WoM was meter whoring. I would tell him "Look, I'm using WoM because I'm blanketing your raid with shields and there is no downtime." Thankfully, my raid leader understands the real sacrifice when I swap to CoW. A sacrifice that I make often by the way.

he might not even have to cast CoW all the time but even if he casts it a few times its a nice little buffer on the tank with high stacks and overwhelming adds.

Sure, but he will also be casting less shields.

Here, let me fix your initial comment:

Just to add, tell you disc to go CoW. Tank damage is very high and theres no reason not too your holy paladin is on the other side. WoM is just meter whoring in this case and doesn´t save anyone. Your priest will be casting fewer shields on the raid, but it might be worth the sacrifice.

[Deleted]

Sorry i just tought someone who raids mythic would know the reason why to use CoW when given and i just only gave an argument why i think WoM doesn´t value high. Anyway lets not derail this topic more, feel free to pm me otherwise

[baoluvboa]

We tried it again on Monday with an emphasis on running the crates in phase 2 and killed it in 4 attempts or so since the fight ended right at 7:30 instead of dragging till 8:00. Thanks for the help guys.

[Deleted]

Sorry to drag this up again

my guild attempted this last night and after some replacing and shizzle started getting some good progress. just a quick question from what i can see the demo/flamebelcher that spawn at 7 minutes are holding the final ammo needed to end the encounter? on the left side i get over run with adds at that point so should i just...run? lol

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...KJqRk#fight=29

our log ^

[Irisel]

I'm not a mythic raid atm, but if it's anything like heroic, I would advise not AoEing your balls off. Single target and passively cleave, as to not push the Felcasters into Metamorph without being ready. I imagine it's the same on mythic, but nothing is worth on this fight than AoE at the cost of single target focus.

[Deleted]

yeah we have that all sorted but the end of the fight around 7:30 we get swamped with adds and the tanks die so i'm pretty sure something is going wrong with the ammo running, i know our rogue said that she died with the ammo at around 7:08 so maybe that was the last ammo needed to end the fight? :S

[Reloe]

The Cannons didn't "waste" any Ammo by going over 100, so that wasn't an issue.
If someone dies while holding the Ammo it drops on the ground where he stood so someone else can just pick it up an run it in.
By the end of the fight you typically get overruned. If your dps is good you can still all survive, it is important to focus the correct targets though.
You don't want to touch Felcasters near the end anymore. If you have any freetime then Berserkers are your target, otherwise just focus down vehicles and run the Ammo in ASAP.