How dungeons should be designed

[Deleted]

Saw this image on 4chan.

i.imgur.com/SJ7sFAd.png

And I think it points out something really important about dungeons. They've become really boring. And it's not just the linearity. It's that they've removed all these special little things from them, like the black forge or exclusive profession trainers, because then people complain about having to go there. But in turn dungeons have been stripped of a lot of the awesomeness.

[WintersLegion]

the dg's are designed similiar to that in FFXIV most of the time the groups I have been in skip the optional stuff and just push through as fast as possible

[Darsithis]

No thanks.

It sounds great on paper but once you know the dungeon, no one will want to do any secrets. No one will want to, who could use the treasure, deal with a group NOT with a rogue. A quest-related optional boss can only be done so many times before everyone has done it.

Besides, something this complicated wears out quickly for people who just want to get it done.

[Putin-Chan]

I think that blizzard wouldn't do it simply because of whiners going "Bring the player not the class/profession!", and the fact that it isn't an amusement park dungeon: (Go in, go fowards, kill stuff, get loot, leave), but I think it's a brilliant way of dungeon design, but to discourage people from skipping bosses, the final boss could have their chance of dropping maybe an epic item would increase with each boss you did.

Here's the pic btw

[Panquake]

So basically a dungeon where all but 2 bosses will be skipped.

[Darsithis]

Oh yeah, also remember that Blizzard had to add, to the dungeon quests in WoD, a requirement to defeat the end boss to stop people who would do only what they wanted to and then drop. The design they have today isn't because of Blizzard, it's because of the community.

[Lylium]

No thanks.

It sounds great on paper but once you know the dungeon, no one will want to do any secrets. No one will want to, who could use the treasure, deal with a group NOT with a rogue. A quest-related optional boss can only be done so many times before everyone has done it.

Besides, something this complicated wears out quickly for people who just want to get it done.

People who "just want to get it done" should not be the people the game is designed for.

The game should be designed for people who want to play it. Not for people who want to play a hollow shell of emptiness just "getting things done" to get +0.05% higher numbers each week.

[WintersLegion]

Oh yeah, also remember that Blizzard had to add, to the dungeon quests in WoD, a requirement to defeat the end boss to stop people who would do only what they wanted to and then drop. The design they have today isn't because of Blizzard, it's because of the community.

Yeah I remember doing Everbloom with some friends we had a pug that through an absolute fit when we didn't go for the shortcut to skip straight to the first boss since one of my friends needed a quest item that you have to kill some extra mobs to get to.

[Logwyn]

So all dungeons like Black Rock Depths then? Seems gimmick to me

[Deleted]

I'm shocked to see that some people would rather have a boring, unimaginitive dungeon, just because you wouldn't get to do all the bosses every time.

[WintersLegion]

People who "just want to get it done" should not be the people the game is designed for.

The game should be designed for people who want to play it. Not for people who want to play a hollow shell of emptiness just "getting things done" to get +0.05% higher numbers each week.

Except like Darsithis said where after doing it a few times most people don't want to do the extras

[Krazzorx]

The only way they could do something like this, and I don't think it would work in any instanced content, is make the secrets have "rare spawns", similar to how in Tanaan they have those treasure chests on a re spawn timer.

Like, have a gnome randomly appear in a cage that you need to summon out of the cage, only doable with a Warlock, and once you summon him he gives you valor points.

[Putin-Chan]

Honestly, there has to be some things blizzard just says 'no' to, and I think that making dungeons simply a chain of bosses waiting to die is something blizzard should have said 'no' about, honestly not all dungeons should be like this, and if dungeons were to be designed like this, they should be challenging, and be an alternate pve progression to raiding, but at an equal difficulty level, with dungeons designed like the ones we have today serving as a pre-raid gearing method.

[Foj]

No thanks.

It sounds great on paper but once you know the dungeon, no one will want to do any secrets. No one will want to, who could use the treasure, deal with a group NOT with a rogue. A quest-related optional boss can only be done so many times before everyone has done it.

Besides, something this complicated wears out quickly for people who just want to get it done.

People who just "want to get it done" should be doing chores or flipping burgers on a grill, not playing WoW.

This is the raiding mindset that views everything other than killing a progression boss as a menial task to be eliminated from the game if possible, or made as quick and "efficient" as possible otherwise. Blizzard listened to you folks to the exclusion of everyone else and wrecked the game for 10 million players in the process. Thanks, by the way!

[Deleted]

Today's player base can't handle those kind of dungeons.

Give them a silver platter or nothing.

[Foj]

Today's player base can't handle those kind of dungeons.

Give them a silver platter or nothing.

It's not today's players who "can't handle" those dungeons, it's the whiny, narcissistic raiders who want their gearing speedbumps to be as low and quick and infrequently visited as possible.

Although, I guess with the way Blizzard's making this a raiding game, that may well be "Today's player base" pretty soon.

[Lylium]

Except like Darsithis said where after doing it a few times most people don't want to do the extras

So they don't have to. That doesn't mean the game should be designed with all that stuff just cut and missing.

This is the same logic that leads to Blizzard designing Facebook-style menu games. Because they're designing for "the people who only have 5 minutes to log on and play."

The game shouldn't be designed for them. The game shouldn't be designed for the people that are going to skip the cool, immersive, interesting stuff just because they're going to skip it after a while (if not immediately).

It shouldn't be catered to the people who aren't going to actually play.

[Fabled]

I'm shocked to see that some people would rather have a boring, unimaginitive dungeon, just because you wouldn't get to do all the bosses every time.

Because not everyone has time for a dungeon that looks like it'd last a long period of time anymore. Most people want in and out in a timely manner.

[edmorte]

Oh yeah, also remember that Blizzard had to add, to the dungeon quests in WoD, a requirement to defeat the end boss to stop people who would do only what they wanted to and then drop. The design they have today isn't because of Blizzard, it's because of the community.

Wrath of the Lich King.

Blizzard kicked all the vets to get new brain dead players, i hope those new players keep the game alive.

Enjoy.

[Darsithis]

People who "just want to get it done" should not be the people the game is designed for.

The game should be designed for people who want to play it. Not for people who want to play a hollow shell of emptiness just "getting things done" to get +0.05% higher numbers each week.

That's not realistic and that's not at all true.

No matter how much an immersive person you are, there comes a time when you just want to complete a goal. If every step of the goal is a super complicated, secret-ridden maze, you aren't going to want to do it, especially if you have to do it more than once. A dungeon like the above once is cool, maybe twice. A dozen times? Two dozen times? No.

Blizzard is a business and, like a smart business, they do their best to appeal to their largest demographic. They do provide plenty of stuff for other types of players, but the end goal is to make sure the most possible people are satisfied.