Nerf Death Siphon.

[Schmeebs]

Actually, mages can pull more heals than a warrior, which is just sad.

Just sayin.

Could you tell me where these magical mage healing spells are that I have completely missed this expansion?

[GodEmperor]

glyphed Iceblock -> Frostsnap -> wait 30seconds -> glyphed Iceblock
40%+22%+40% healing.

Not good sustained regen, but pretty good burst healing e.g. in arena.

It's not great, not at all, especially as the full combo is on a 5minute cd, 3minute cd at least, but it's better than nothing.


Though over time warriors heal more with 30% per minute (not counting minor heals as fury).

Also spell stealing hots and shields help big time in 2s. Almost 1v2ed a Disc/Warrior yesterday after my Spriest partner died, let the disc cast Clarity of Will then stole it. They eventually got me though but was a funny game face tanking warrior burst cds because I had a 250k bubble on me.

OT : Death Siphon and DK healing in general is strong in 2s and it might be a good reason Blizz refuses to give DKs any utility because they do good damage and healing. However removing Death Siphon from DKs would simply make them inferior to warriors in every single way. Right now they're only better in healing.

[Tyrean]

This has to rate up there in the all time "don't nerf me" line of posts underselling of a class.

ya ibf so garbage being a stun break and immunity, but psh only an additional 20% dr. such a garbage ability.

ams "only" 40% of you hp as a damage shield + new magic effect immunity ability. (ps arcane shot)

And you should know very well that you can never just compare CDs or abilities in a bubble and expect every class to be the same. I was just illustrating that the class is built around taking and healing damage so if you take away the healing part what are you left with?

Besides, the reason DK is not a viable thing at high ratings is that for some reason the high rated players have figured out that if the DK can't hit you he can't kill you and the sub2k players are just happy to eat a DK's damage to the face and whine on the forums about how hard they are to kill.

[Stormspellz]

And you should know very well that you can never just compare CDs or abilities in a bubble and expect every class to be the same. I was just illustrating that the class is built around taking and healing damage so if you take away the healing part what are you left with?

Besides, the reason DK is not a viable thing at high ratings is that for some reason the high rated players have figured out that if the DK can't hit you he can't kill you and the sub2k players are just happy to eat a DK's damage to the face and whine on the forums about how hard they are to kill.

yes, you can't look at abilities in a vacuum but you can't also leave out half of an abilities effect when ranting about it.

[Tyrean]

No I mention that IBF is used as a stun break not a silly damage reduction. It is more important to the DK toolkit as a "trinket". I think most DK players would gladly give up all their get me out of crap abilities if they could just have some form of percentage damage reduction that does not gut their damage or some mobility that is not built around reverse charge and ranged slow.

[Stormspellz]

No I mention that IBF is used as a stun break not a silly damage reduction. It is more important to the DK toolkit as a "trinket". I think most DK players would gladly give up all their get me out of crap abilities if they could just have some form of percentage damage reduction that does not gut their damage or some mobility that is not built around reverse charge and ranged slow.

you still left out key aspects of the abilities in your rant about said abilities.

[Deleted]

All dps healing ability's need to be nerfed.

[Theed]

All dps healing ability's need to be nerfed.

Agree. Especially Feral/Enhance uniterruptable Instant heals that heal for 20% of max hp every 10-15 seconds. They scale far too good.

[shise]

Right, might be the only decent thing DK's can do now a days...

Deal with it to be honest.

[Theed]

Right, might be the only decent thing DK's can do now a days...

Deal with it to be honest.

Besides having the one of the best survivability, huge damage/pressure, many interrupts and being much harder to cc than everyone else ingame (Lichborne, DG, AMS, IBF). Really Nothing.

[Deleted]

i just dont see a vaild reason why dpsers should have good heals. Makes no sense. Your supposed to dps not have full hp heals

[Tyrannica]

This has nothing to do with the thread. I agree that Warriors should be nerfed, but this isn't a "nerf Warrior thread."

I play DK right now btw. Death Siphon is retarded even as 2H Frost although at least 2H Frost loses a ton of damage from using it.

DW hardly loses any damage and gets more healing from it. I've played it on PTR before the patch, and you're basically invincible if you can abuse the rune system correctly.

But 2H Frost can switch easily into blood presence without much of a penality, while frost dw has no way to deal any dmg in blood. Due to the prio in mastery instead of haste and using runic power for their hard hits on solo targets.

Other than that i think the healing is fine as is. Obviously you never tried to bring down a feral with your army and raid buffs and see him healing through any dmg you do. Not even healers were able to do that.

That should be questioned before any dk heal nerfs.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd like Blizzard in general to remove/drastically nerf all of the self healing of dps classes, especially classes that don't even have a healing spec.

Rogues, Hunters, Mages shouldn't be able to heal themselves at all.

correct, they have enough escape and reset mechanics to avoid dmg, no healing is required in PvP.

- - - Updated - - -

Sure nerf death siphon and in return make DKs not made of paper. Death siphon exists because DKs don't have any mitigation. This has been DK design since forever, take shit tons of damage, heal some of it back. It just used to be melee ranged only and now that frost mages, hunters, etc can't kite and explode a DK everyone has tears? Ryan, I know you are notorious for one sided rants and tears but even you know how DKs are designed and why they have the tools they do. If what you are currently crying about was even remotely a problem you would see DKs as the most represented class and stomping the ladders. Instead they are number 9 in representation at 4.4% and arguably the best DK (Mes) plays warrior instead.

I would trade some actual mobility and some percentage defensives for stupid self healing any day.

its just good in duels and solo que random bgs. Rather an odd design.....to be the king of 1vs1 and trash in arenas.

- - - Updated - - -

Blood presence, 10% mitigation that guts your damage, AMS that is a 40% HP absorb that doesn't help against hunters, warriors, ferals, combat rogues, sub rogues, etc and IBF that is such a huge amount of mitigation (20% for 8 secs on 3 minute!!! CD) that every DK in existence glyphs it for half duration just to have a stun break. By the way, die by the sword is 30% reduction plus 100% parry on a shorter CD....

DKs are designed to take tons of damage and heal it back. If they don't have heals then they need mitigation like pretty much every other class that is not designed around healing.

I think the blood spec of the dk should be used as a heal spec and the tank design completely removed. Cause the design is not tanky but about heals and there would be finally a spec be useful in arenas.

- - - Updated - - -

And you should know very well that you can never just compare CDs or abilities in a bubble and expect every class to be the same. I was just illustrating that the class is built around taking and healing damage so if you take away the healing part what are you left with?

Besides, the reason DK is not a viable thing at high ratings is that for some reason the high rated players have figured out that if the DK can't hit you he can't kill you and the sub2k players are just happy to eat a DK's damage to the face and whine on the forums about how hard they are to kill.

well, unholy still hits pretty hard and reliable, but ns was removed, and it only got a 3 min burst window. There are better options out there.

[Arcanimus]

correct, they have enough escape and reset mechanics to avoid dmg, no healing is required in PvP.

I know rogues and mages have enough reset and escape mechanics to not need healing, but really? Hunters have disengage on a 20 second baseline cooldown, Deter on a 3 min base cooldown that stocks to 2 charges, Master's Call on a 45 second cooldown, and a bunch of piddly slows that barely make a difference.
Feign Death cannot be counted as a reset, it's an interrupt at best.

[Tyrannica]

I know rogues and mages have enough reset and escape mechanics to not need healing, but really? Hunters have disengage on a 20 second baseline cooldown, Deter on a 3 min base cooldown that stocks to 2 charges, Master's Call on a 45 second cooldown, and a bunch of piddly slows that barely make a difference.
Feign Death cannot be counted as a reset, it's an interrupt at best.

was more directed at mages and rogues, played with that setup since cata in arenas and the reset possibilities are endless along with their over the top burst. They are also dominating arenas, too.