Patch 6.2 Hotfixes: July 20

[Deleted]

Finally someone who understands what mythic raiding means. It is not about padding dps by too much use of fire nova.

Enhancers are currently a joke. Real AOE is rare and fast burned and in some cases simply irrelevant. And our single target dps is very very bad. We are 10 to 20% behind the other melee specs.

And this Gorefiend heroic:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...3&difficulty=4

That happens when you have a lot of data and look at the 95 Percentile. This is single target. That is to be expected in the coming weeks.

[miffy23]

I would be fine with being average to low on the DPS scale of things versus other specs if we had utility that justified it, that's all. That goes for both specs.
Gonna give Ele a swing with the fix now tho.

[Deleted]

I would be fine with being average to low on the DPS scale of things versus other specs if we had utility that justified it, that's all. That goes for both specs.
Gonna give Ele a swing with the fix now tho.

Yes, if this would be 2007.

Lol, dude... its not getter better.

[Deleted]

But as we have no utility for myth raiding, we rely on good our dps. They simply dont want to give zs utility but they also dont want to make us competive dps wise for whatever reason. It isnt even like we are too strong in pvp.

- - - Updated - - -

Btw last addon as shaman. I'll pick mage or rogue for the next addon. And if this is final balancing for HFC i wont care anymore. I have 15 days play time left on my account. 2 IDs left. I am tired right now. I dont even care about rotation issues and so on. I just want to raid and have fun.

[shammypie]

Oh well, Ascendance for AoE is still crap, so Echo remains king there.

On the other hand I think FS dependance and a extra effect for Ascendance is needed. Giving it Cata's EM damage % increase could be cool.

Also reduce Elemental Totems cd to 4min (2min gliphed). There. Now we have the biggest amount of cd stacking ever. EM, Ring, Ascendance, Elemental, Bloodfury. GG.

apparently you don't remember the end of cata with set bonus.

[miffy23]

Yes, if this would be 2007.

Lol, dude... its not getter better.

What is your problem now? You don't have to be Top 3 on the rankings as a spec to have Mythic viability. Both specs would get taken a lot more often if they brought similar utility such as Rallying, Smokebomb, etc, simple as that, regardless of whether they scale 5th or 8th on single target. The gap between Enh/Ele and the more average specs apart from rogue, arcane, warrior is not large at all, it's simply made worse by the lack of utility.

[Deleted]

Okay, let's talk about the logs you posted:

Hellfire Assault. It is more a single target fight than a AOE fight. Because of that, raids will let the classes/speccs with the most benefit of aoeing doing their job which is one certain specc most of the time: Enhancement. We get incredible single target dmg (If you don't have to worry that you get too many Felcasters in their metaform). But even with this advantage... This boss is a fucking joke.

Kormroc. The padding boss in itself. The only reason that dmg on this boss is so high, is because of the aoe people can do on the hands. But you know what? 2 persons are enough to clear the hands in mythic even. This is a mechanic that is completely useless in this fight, which is the reason why it shouldn't matter for such a discussion. Single target is the key on this boss.

Gorefiend. For whatever reason you decided to post the mythic version of the fight, without even realizing that there are only 3.. yes, 3... parses of enhancers (yeah, i like to write enhancer). So why are they doing good? Well, first of all, out of the 3 parses, 2 are at the 76k dmg mark, while the other one is at the 96k dmg mark. Looking at the logs shows that the 96k parse got allowed to aoe down the adds that spawn after people get taken down, while the other 2 parses didn't, probably because there was no reason because they fast enough. If you would look at the heroic parses, you would see, that our single target dmg is in the last field of 6 speccs.

Shadow Lord Iskar. That's the boss where i thought (before even looking at the parses): Hey, we shine there, we definitely must be in the top 3. It is the perfect fight for us. We can aoe the first 2 add-phases and in the last add-phase we have incredible burst with our cooldowns + bloodlust. But, you know what? We aren't even in the top 3, even though it is the bread&butter fight for enhancers. But then again, here you post the heroic logs, instead of the mythic ones. And you know why? Because again, there are almost no parses for the mythic encounters. And you know why? Because most enhancers are sitting on the bench or already rerolled.

Xhul'horac. I know, that my coming text will sound strange for people like you, that don't look further into a fight than the rankings. But the rankings here don't mean jackshit. The only thing those rankings show are either raids that already good enough that they can let single speccs do all the aoe to top the rankings, or (the important part) raids that are just slow with the adds, so they live long enough to have a effect on aoe. There are spawning 3 pyromancer-adds. Those 3 adds die in a breeze with a normal raid, meaning that most enhancers can only get 1-2 fire nova's out. This wouldn't be enough to top the rankings. So like i said, either the raids are doing it specially to top the rankings, or they are slow (see the irony? Slow raids get better rankings).

Mannoroth. Like Shadow Lord Iskar, i would say, that this is one of our bread&butter fights. But again, we aren't even in the top 3. To be fair, i don't think that i have enough insight in this boss. I got my top 50 ranking on it, but i still feel, that i can do much different because of the adds again. We are perfect for the aoe (well, i think that most raids probably get the adds down before we can spread our flameshock, whereas my raid at least only killed every second group of adds within 1 global cd, allowing me to pad meters with every other group) and our burst because of cooldowns is perfect for the important last phase.

Sooooo, please... Before you jump to conclusions because of rankings, at least look at the fights and try to think about them. Thats exactly the reason why so many people think that certain speccs are fine, even though they are bad (not only talking about enhancers and this tier). Most of the rankings are just because of one reason: padding. Doing aoe even though it doesn't benefit the raid or tailoring the strategy of the raid exactly for getting rankings. The fights that matter are not the ones where you can rank. The fights that matter are the one where you are still trying to kill the boss.

You sir are one of the first persons on the MMO forum that accually understands mythic progression raiding, 10/10 post.

[zarmis49]

When are these hotfixes supposed to be applied? They aren't live yet.

[Ranulf13]

When are these hotfixes supposed to be applied? They aren't live yet.

I dont know but I am getting really angsty about them and hoping for a ninja extra buff.

[oleander89]

When are these hotfixes supposed to be applied? They aren't live yet.

Have the realm restarts gone through yet?

[Nebria]

What is your problem now? You don't have to be Top 3 on the rankings as a spec to have Mythic viability. Both specs would get taken a lot more often if they brought similar utility such as Rallying, Smokebomb, etc, simple as that, regardless of whether they scale 5th or 8th on single target. The gap between Enh/Ele and the more average specs apart from rogue, arcane, warrior is not large at all, it's simply made worse by the lack of utility.

they can't give shamans new utility at this point in the expansion. they could buff what we have which is as utility our off healing (ag), which won't happen, or simply push the damage so that you are brought in for damage.
most people here look for solutions they can make now and not which should/could be done in general in next xpack.

[Deleted]

they can't give shamans new utility at this point in the expansion. they could buff what we have which is as utility our off healing (ag), which won't happen, or simply push the damage so that you are brought in for damage.
most people here look for solutions they can make now and not which should/could be done in general in next xpack.

6.2.1 - "Elemental compansation"

Make. It. Happen.

Reality: 6.2.1 - "Introduction of SELFIE-Sticks, and a futuristic Barn where you tame Horse followers"

[Deleted]

Not having echo feels like stone age gameplay now

[miffy23]

they can't give shamans new utility at this point in the expansion. they could buff what we have which is as utility our off healing (ag), which won't happen, or simply push the damage so that you are brought in for damage.
most people here look for solutions they can make now and not which should/could be done in general in next xpack.

That's actually not what most people are asking for, see both Binkenstein and Wordup's threads. We're asking for far more significant, long-lasting (!) reworks, not number passes as a band-aid.

The ship has sailed for this Tier and all past Tiers, it's about the future of the specs going forward and how long we're supposed to accept being an afterthought on every single Tier release.

As far as utility goes, buffing what we have is fine, I'm not necessarily asking for new tools.

[Nebria]

That's actually not what most people are asking for, see both Binkenstein and Wordup's threads. We're asking for far more significant, long-lasting (!) reworks, not number passes as a band-aid.

The ship has sailed for this Tier and all past Tiers, it's about the future of the specs going forward and how long we're supposed to accept being an afterthought on every single Tier release.

As far as utility goes, buffing what we have is fine, I'm not necessarily asking for new tools.

perhaps we understand the threads different.
to be honest discussions about future implementation we see in 7.0 or not are not helping us now.
and the hot fixes show they want to balance dps now. the ship has not sailed for all of us. perhaps for the mythic heroes but all other players have the same issues.
the spec is not fun. they have to do something, the content will stay for 6 month+.

bink mostly posted changes that can be implemented by hot fixes. so for me this changes could help us now and could be done with minimal effort (some number changes here and there), which is important because 6.x is done and major development is focusing on 7.0.
they are not perfect but would help to catch up. for long term solutions they can think about different stuff, with talent changes and mechanic changes in mind.

[miffy23]

perhaps we understand the threads different.
to be honest discussions about future implementation we see in 7.0 or not are not helping us now.

Point is: for 6.2, it's too late. Shamans have already mostly been benched or sat out HFC.

and the hot fixes show they want to balance dps now. the ship has not sailed for all of us. perhaps for the mythic heroes but all other players have the same issues.
the spec is not fun. they have to do something, the content will stay for 6 month+.

They throw these band - aids at both specs after every Tier release, because they are fundamentally broken in talent and ability design, according to what modern encounters throw at us. That's what most want to change, and finally get some sensible and longlasting, fun gameplay reworks. Binkenstein's thread may be mostly about number tuning, Wordup's is not. And there's tons of Ele feedback on the issue with target switching.

bink mostly posted changes that can be implemented by hot fixes. so for me this changes could help us now and could be done with minimal effort (some number changes here and there), which is important because 6.x is done and major development is focusing on 7.0.
they are not perfect but would help to catch up. for long term solutions they can think about different stuff, with talent changes and mechanic changes in mind.

You're not making a lot of sense. These number passes right now are only going to affect Ele (and Enh, if we get anything more) for the largely irrelevant remainder of 6.2, there's nothing much to catch up, and the same issues will pop up again in 7.0, 7.1, 7.2 and so on if nothing is changed about the fundamentals. Target switching will still be a bitch for Ele, Enh single target will still be horrible and have to be hotfixed after every Tier to be even remotely competitive - in hindsight.

7.0 will be another reset button with likely ability changes, glyph changes, talent changes and ofc a Tier jump in numbers, hotfixes for 6.2 do nothing to alleviate the basic problems that have been rearing their heads on both Shaman specs over and over again in WoD. We've lost our raid utility, we've lost our DPS viability, and are left with being padding monsters on 2-3 fights each Tier. Hotfixing numbers won't change that.

[Nebria]

maybe you should realize there needs to be a solution for 6.2 and again one for 7.0 and so we need different discussions and should not mix them up.

I have not read wordups thread because I play elemental so I only read sometimes enhancer threads and wall of text threads (I guess it is one) is also nothing you can read in 3 minutes.
I find it good that we have discussions about long term solutions for 7.0 where blizzards can do mechanic and talent changes, however I do not ignore the current situation because 6.2 is not over for me and I'm sure also not for the major player base. I still have some stuff to kill. any changes will help me to get back fun and to get some more kills.
wow raiding is not only about race for world first and every elemental in hfc has the same mechanic issues, no matter that some ignore this.
if I can't raid nhc with a random group because my damage is bad on a specific boss they want to do and they won't take me because of this I have the same issue a myhtic raided has that got benched.

binks post was about how to fix 6.2. elemental with minimal effort. exactly what I focus on currently.

[Deleted]

Most of progress in HFC is still ahead for me. We have only 5/13 mythic down, all those difficult bosses ahead.

I'd be fine if my enhancer could compete for raid spots with other melee dds. Even if they buffed Storm Strike and Lava Lash by 30%, i'd still be last place on iron council from all those who survived. Basically this means we'd still have some very bad fights, but at least we would be mediocre on others and perhaps even good on very few.

If nothing happens, i'm just jumping from midpack on few fights to straightout bottom on the rest. And that's not funny. Why should my raid gear me?

Mechanics wise, i gave up. The sad part is: at least Binkenstein seems to have some link to the devs. We enhancers are just left in the dust. Oh, you're 20% behind? Yeah, you get a 5% buff few days after patch and that's it.

[miffy23]

Nebria, i'm simply saying that these simple number changes they're doing now don't really address the issue. SS/LL buffs to Enh don't fix our single target, the current Ele hotfixes don't fix the issues in target switching. Both specs will still be horribly be behind on those aspects, unacceptably so for most Mythic guilds even if they're not cutting edge.

The issues both specs are having are due to painful lack of activity in the design process for years now concerning them, and player feedback (the good kind) being mostly dismissed/ignored. You are now experiencing the results of that process. Slight number adjustments might make you not unusable for Mythic 6.2 down the line, but you're still not going to be first choice, ever, and you're going to run into the same wall for 7.0 again if they don't change anything.

[Nebria]

Ok. I think we both agree that the hotfix won't change that much because we keep that mechanic issues and we need to definitely some serious changes in 7.0.