Drag Queens banned from Gay Pride Event

[nextormento]

Well you could just say you're a human. And you have a penis (?). So you're male. And not give a fuck what anyone thinks about how you should or should not act/dress.

I recomed this video to anybody, but particularly to those that have trouble with the trans experience, and think they should simply get over it somehow.
It's short and to the point. And done by Vi Heart, which is always a treat. :]

[Hawgwash]

I don't know what Tumblr speak is, I don't use that site. And yeah, I am anti-trans (maybe not by your definition though, I didn't read all of your definitions posts) because I don't understand why people are so eager to conform to gender norms while supporting a movement built ironically on non-conformity.

I support the notion that gender is a fabricated tool of social control, and we would all be better off applying our identities to our sex, and not the other way around.

Sex is the means by which gender comes about. Your designation into one of the two social categories of gender is determined based upon your genital morphology at birth. Giving social meaning to sex is gender. So I don't see why it should be the means by which we identify others or ourselves.

[Gothicshark]

I don't know what Tumblr speak is, I don't use that site. And yeah, I am anti-trans (maybe not by your definition though, I didn't read all of your definitions posts) because I don't understand why people are so eager to conform to gender norms while supporting a movement built ironically on non-conformity.

I support the notion that gender is a fabricated tool of social control, and we would all be better off applying our identities to our sex, and not the other way around.

You are justifying bigotry, and hate. By using words that sound socially acceptable, The mind the center of what it is to be human, is gendered. That has been scientifically established. Transgender n. (ie Transwomen, and Transmen) have the minds opposite of their birth sex. This is established scientifically, and is testable. By saying otherwise is to practice what amounts to a religious concept not based on fact but belief.

[Underverse]

Also, you really don't have a clue about me, I really don't give a *&^% what people think about me, I was a biker, a goth, and a marine. Do you think I give a f***?

If some one dis's me while I'm dressed fem with a beard, (ie back in the 90's), I'd just kick their ass. I want you to know I do lift, and I do it for my own health. I am in transition because my mind is fully female, but I'm also big and strong and can fight. However most of the time I sit at home with my cats, typing on the internet.

I think you do care what people think about you. Maybe not what I think. But what people close to you think. And you certainly care what you think about yourself. Otherwise you would not be transitioning.

[Gothicshark]

Sex is the means by which gender comes about. Your designation into one of the two social categories of gender is determined based upon your genital morphology at birth. Giving social meaning to sex is gender. So I don't see why it should be the means by which we identify others or ourselves.

Well not 100% of the time. Sometimes the mind goes in the opposite direction to the body.

[Underverse]

I recomed this video to anybody, but particularly to those that have trouble with the trans experience, and think they should simply get over it somehow.
It's short and to the point. And done by Vi Heart, which is always a treat. :]

I was on board until she conceded that gender was a 'thing' just because people do it against the path of least resistance. I think she misidentified a few critical factors that make the path towards transgenderism more enticing, such as intense social pressure.

[Deleted]

Also, you really don't have a clue about me, I really don't give a *&^% what people think about me, I was a biker, a goth, and a marine. Do you think I give a f***?

If some one dis's me while I'm dressed fem with a beard, (ie back in the 90's), I'd just kick their ass. I want you to know I do lift, and I do it for my own health. I am in transition because my mind is fully female, but I'm also big and strong and can fight. However most of the time I sit at home with my cats, typing on the internet.

O_o

Where did that come from...?

[Gothicshark]

I think you do care what people think about you. Maybe not what I think. But what people close to you think. And you certainly care what you think about yourself. Otherwise you would not be transitioning.

I only care how I feel about myself and that's it. I dumped my family years ago, and I will drop a friend in a heartbeat if they judge me in anyway. I tend to isolate a lot, but thats because I like playing videogames, reading, watching Anime, and other solo activities which do not require social interaction. You on the other hand have the gaul to judge me without know a thing about me, which shows how you are, I am sure if I met you I wouldn't like you at all.

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O_o

Where did that come from...?

Remarks from Quetzl. follow the conversation, and you'll understand.

[PizzaSHARK]

Also, you really don't have a clue about me, I really don't give a *&^% what people think about me, I was a biker, a goth, and a marine. Do you think I give a f***?

If some one dis's me while I'm dressed fem with a beard, (ie back in the 90's), I'd just kick their ass. I want you to know I do lift, and I do it for my own health. I am in transition because my mind is fully female, but I'm also big and strong and can fight. However most of the time I sit at home with my cats, typing on the internet.

Identifies as fully female, yet grows and maintains a beard, an overt symbol and sign of masculinity, and would readily attack others for suggesting that she is not as female as she thinks she is. Which, of course, is a contradiction in and of itself, since she's saying that she doesn't give a fuck about what others think about her

[nextormento]

the path towards transgenderism more enticing, such as intense social pressure.

Who pressures anyone into transgenderism?
There are next to zero social benefits to it.

[Underverse]

Sex is the means by which gender comes about. Your designation into one of the two social categories of gender is determined based upon your genital morphology at birth. Giving social meaning to sex is gender. So I don't see why it should be the means by which we identify others or ourselves.

No, it isn't. Social interactions, how people treat you, your predispositions, things you're taught - these are things that construct gender, as well as other parts of your identity. It isn't just what's between your legs. Which is why it's so convoluted, and why people feel like they are something they are not, or not something that they are.

Also, your definition of gender is a good example of applying your sex to your identity. You see your sex, you see other people's sex, and then compare to see which sex your identity most matches up with. This is the current trans dogma. It would be better if one would see their identity, see their sex, and conclude that "this is what it feels like to be [my sex]."

[Wells]

I don't understand why people are so eager to conform to gender norms while supporting a movement built ironically on non-conformity.

You confuse wanting to do away with enforced gender norms with self selected gender norms. That's why you don't understand.

There is no hypocrisy in identifying oneself as "a woman" (short hand here for a given set of characteristics), while wanting everyone else to get to make that decision as well. There are of course those who argue that a world with entirely self selected gender is a world with no gender, but that's really all one and the same as far as I'm concerned.

[Deleted]

Identifies as fully female, yet grows and maintains a beard, an overt symbol and sign of masculinity, and would readily attack others for suggesting that she is not as female as she thinks she is. Which, of course, is a contradiction in and of itself, since she's saying that she doesn't give a fuck about what others think about her

You are mean.

[Underverse]

Who pressures anyone into transgenderism?
There are next to zero social benefits to it.

By social pressure, I don't mean peer pressure. I mean the existence of gender norms telling you how to feel if you're a man from the moment you are born.

[Underverse]

You are justifying bigotry, and hate. By using words that sound socially acceptable, The mind the center of what it is to be human, is gendered. That has been scientifically established. Transgender n. (ie Transwomen, and Transmen) have the minds opposite of their birth sex. This is established scientifically, and is testable. By saying otherwise is to practice what amounts to a religious concept not based on fact but belief.

Where has it been scientifically established that the mind is gendered? Forget that, where has it been scientifically established what constitutes the mind? You can demonstrate that female babies with more estrogen in their hypothalamus end up having a higher chance of being trans, but that's a far cry from a gendered mind, and indeed has very little to do with my argument, which is that behaviors are only gendered because of preexisting dogma.

[Thage]

As Nixx mentioned back on page 1, trans women and drag queens have a very storied history and the majority of that story isn't one of solidarity. There is a sentiment, albeit not indicative of the whole, among the trans community that drag queens reap the benefits of trans activism without putting their shoulder to the boulder and joining in the uphill struggle trans people have gone through to get the modicum of mainstream acceptance they had before Caitlyn Jenner hit the cover of Vanity Fair.

[nextormento]

By social pressure, I don't mean peer pressure. I mean the existence of gender norms telling you how to feel if you're a man from the moment you are born.

Which is almost exactly the opposite of the point the video was making.

[Underverse]

You don't seem to understand what he's saying. He's saying that at birth when you pop out, the doctors look to see what genitals you have and then declare your sex. From that moment on, people just automatically assign you the corresponding gender until you're old enough to tell them you feel otherwise and maybe not even then.

Yes, this is all true, and if that's all he was saying, I agree with all of it. But I would also point to that last bit in bold and suggest that this only happens because gender roles are pushed so hard in the first place.

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Which is almost exactly the opposite of the point the video was making.

Which is why I disagree with the video? You're going to have to be more clear, I don't think I understand your argument.

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I only care how I feel about myself and that's it. I dumped my family years ago, and I will drop a friend in a heartbeat if they judge me in anyway. I tend to isolate a lot, but thats because I like playing videogames, reading, watching Anime, and other solo activities which do not require social interaction. You on the other hand have the gaul to judge me without know a thing about me, which shows how you are, I am sure if I met you I wouldn't like you at all.

This is why I say you care what people think. Because you say you do, even when denying it. Look, I'm not saying I know much about you at all. I'm only going on what you've shown me in this thread. But it isn't insignificant.

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Identifies as fully female, yet grows and maintains a beard, an overt symbol and sign of masculinity, and would readily attack others for suggesting that she is not as female as she thinks she is. Which, of course, is a contradiction in and of itself, since she's saying that she doesn't give a fuck about what others think about her

Pretty much this.

[nextormento]

As Nixx mentioned back on page 1, trans women and drag queens have a very storied history and the majority of that story isn't one of solidarity. There is a sentiment, albeit not indicative of the whole, among the trans community that drag queens reap the benefits of trans activism without putting their shoulder to the boulder and joining in the uphill struggle trans people have gone through to get the modicum of mainstream acceptance they had before Caitlyn Jenner hit the cover of Vanity Fair.

The other side of the story being that trans activism wouldn't even be much of a thing without the exposure transvestites gave to the whole shebang.

[Gothicshark]

Identifies as fully female, yet grows and maintains a beard, an overt symbol and sign of masculinity, and would readily attack others for suggesting that she is not as female as she thinks she is. Which, of course, is a contradiction in and of itself, since she's saying that she doesn't give a fuck about what others think about her

I am Female, yes.
I have a natural beard, yes.
Sometimes I let the beard grow.
I have Breasts, and need to wear a bra. Sometimes I have a beard and go to the beach with out a top. I should point out I go to the closest point walking from my apartment when I go to the beach, and it is not as busy there. But that's because I hate dealing with people.

Your problem is not understanding, I am gender non-binary and a Transwoman. I just do what feels natural for me, my inner voice says she and her. I have no idea what it means to feel like a man, although for a time I tried to very hard and Joined the Marines, got in to Force Recon ect.