1. #1

    Lightbulb My idea for World PvP [very in depth]

    I think WPvP is something that has never been done right and also something that has absolutely huge potential in an MMO. By doing something right, I mean a simple compounding system where its complexity is something that comes from players.

    Which brings me to Ashran or "Trashran." I think Ashran is probably the closest thing to good world pvp we have in WoW. Yeah, I said that right. The thing about Ashran is that it is rife with good ideas and poor execution, in my opinion. The idea of fighting along a road to conquest, taking enemy bases and random sort of events all around for bonuses- very cool idea.

    My problems with Ashran: everything is very temporary. You win, but you don't really conquer anything. Just get bounced back and do it again in 10 minutes. There isn't any proper reason for geared people to do it. There is no obvious story reason for us to want to take over Ashran. Plus, it enforces faction balance which means that the Horde is out geared virtually always and the Alliance has infinitely long queues.

    The first solution is gold. Make players able to take honor, and trade it for gold. Not the other way around. It doesn't have to be a TON of gold. What if 1000 honor was worth 100g? Would you pvp more to buy your sub? I think more people would.

    The second answer, to me is simply as well. Queue too long? Why don't you go fight somewhere else? Somewhere with real strategic value? Are you outnumbered here? Why don't you go find a place unguarded and attack it? That's what a real war in Warcraft would look like.

    So, my plan is this: make every single zone in the real world capturable. Use what we learn from other games. I think maybe small amounts of soldiers attacking in waves like in a moba would be cool. Players can just go around fighting anywhere. Compound victories into conquest and fight a real war. Actually conquer zones, whole zones. We could have rep for each zone or something, gold rewards, honor. Honor should be given the same as if in a BG, or more. Maybe killing an enemy NPC gives you 2 honor, players give you 10.

    In this world, faction balance is not enforced. Be strategic about where you go. So, in my example, gold is substitute for honor-being that people would probably be doing pvp to get gold because it's easy to get honor gear and the mounts, anyway. Note also in my example that players and npc's give honor. And, unless an event makes something capturable, towns can only be captured if they border an enemy town (Ashran's road progression as a model, with moba elements).

    It's something I put a lot of thought into that I think would make WoW a move interactive game. This sort of model can be dropped onto any zone, so the whole world becomes one, massive, epic world of pvp. Also, you have to opt into it and all pvp zones are cross-realm by default because many would be boring without it unless there is more people playing.

    So, here is an example of one small part of a gigantic world of pvp:

    Elwynn Forest: Model for WPvP

    Alliance rep: Elwynn Forest?
    Horde rep: Elwynn Invasion Force?

    CAPTURABLE POINTS

    -capital city zone: 10% honor buff for who holds it (SW)
    -Eastvale Logging Camp (town): spawns npc minion
    -east tower: increases all npc damage 10%
    -Tower of Azora: increase guard attack 10%
    -Brackwell Pumpkin Patch: increase npc health 10%
    -Goldshire (town): spawns npc minion
    -Maclure Vineyards & Stonefield Farm: +5% player health each
    -Westbrook Garrison: +10% player defense
    -Northshire: +10% healing
    -west tower: +10% npc defense

    EVENTS

    Defias Rising!
    The Defias faction is preparing an assault on Eastvale Logging Camp:
    -conquer Stone Cairn Lake before they assault and gain a large gold reward
    -stop the faction that controls ELC from stopping Defias to gain strategic advantage and a gold reward
    -During this time SCL is populated by many elites, not advised to go alone
    -If the timer is failed, a large army of Defias invades ELC
    -After some time occupying ELC they disappear and it becomes contested/abandoned

    Murlok Apocalypse!
    Can only happen once every 2 hours.
    Triggered by players bringing 50 fish of any type to neutral murlock.
    The murloks of Elwynn are risen. A murlok army will invade Goldshire and occupy it until defeated.
    -defeating the murlocks in Goldshire is claims Goldshire for whichever faction does it, regardless of minions nearby
    -large gold reward and easy foothold for Horde in the zone

    Conquer with Candles
    The klebolds of the north cave have become their own faction with their own leader.
    -kill enemy klebolds in the other mine for 15 candles and get them to the new klebold faction leader
    -they are lootable from players by enemy players
    -first faction to get the candles to the neutral klebolds will have that faction go to war for them
    -the klebold faction will move as a group, taking bonus objectives for 30 minutes or until defeated

    Hogger's Revenge
    Can only happen once every 2 hours.
    Triggered by players bringing 50 units of food to the new chiefton.
    A new gnoll chiefton has taken over Hogger's stomping grounds and wants revenge for his old leader.
    He will rally a small army of fellow gnolls and assault Westbrook Garrison and east tower.
    -defeat this gnoll king and the invasion ends
    -large gold reward for defeating it
    -failure means that the gnoll take over and immediately vanish meaning the garrison is abandoned and contested

    CITY BATTLE: Siege of Stormwind

    Stormwind city is threatened when Goldshire & ELC is occupied by enemy faction.
    During this time guards do no spawn as they normally do.
    Each area of the city is capturable separately.
    During siege, guards have limited respawn times.
    Each occupied area spawns 10 guards that can respawn 5 times to defend the flag.
    Each occupied area that borders an area of the other occupied faction spawns waves of 5 attacking guards that respawn 5 times each.
    The counter of guards resets when an area changes hands.
    Once the majority of the city is held by the invading faction for 20 minutes, only the castle will be contested.
    That area must be captured and the leader defeated in 10 minutes or the city battle begins again (the invading faction starts owning it this time)
    If the city battle is repelled by the defending faction owning the majority of districts at the end of 20 minutes.
    If the leader killed and castle occupied, the entire zone belongs to the attacking faction. During this time it is treated as a capital city of that faction.
    During that time also, that factions mages can teleport to it, auctions, vendors, banks, etc. even hearths belong to that faction and can be used.

    However, Deeprun tram only operates when the same faction owns SW and IF. Ships to Teldrassil only work when SW and Darn are owned by the same faction.

    * At this time, there is no plan to add new ships to replace the non working ones for Horde, same is the case for every other capturable town and city with a dock.

    I hope this seems interesting to you guys.

  2. #2
    Blademaster MoonPewPew's Avatar
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    Cool idea, but making every zone is an enormous amount of work, at best they would do the ^new^ zones from the next expansions, but changing every old zone is pretty much ... impossible.

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire Krixooks's Avatar
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    I mean, in a way, Blizzard already trialed this sort of idea in The Burning Crusade.

    They decided that every zone would have a PvP objective just like Eastern Plaguelands and Silithus had in a later patch in Vanilla.

    Hellfire had the towers, Zangar had a flag cap + towers, Terokkar had the spirit towers and Nagrand had Halaa.
    Each of these had unique mechanics, and unique reward tokens you could use to cash in for gear, gems, recipes and mounts.

    It did work to some extent; players wanted the rewards, and the objectives were fun. But after a while, everyone had flying, and it wasn't fun with flying.

    Blizzard even added some more in WotLK in Grizzly Hills, but the rewards were horrible and I don't think I ever saw anyone there.

    @OP you're quite right Blizz can't seem to get WPvP right, Ashran is a kind of heroic attempt at remaking a sort of outdoor AV, but I just don't like it at all.

    In my opinion, the best WPvP objectives that Blizzard has created have been the Tol Barad zones, and Isle of Thunder. Both zones drew players in for dailys/rewards etc, and WPvP just happened naturally there.

    edit: here is a video of some Halaa that my guild and I got started during MoP just for some old-time fun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6M4eUYQAJg

  4. #4
    The Lightbringer Sinndra's Avatar
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    ill add to your plan..

    proper incentives for WPvP:

    ~ to do this they need to first create a new currency. WPvP Tokens. these tokens can be acquired from participating in any non-instanced PvP combat throughout all of WoW. the catch is, opponents must be +/- 2 levels from you. this is an attempt to stop lowbie farming for easy tokens. as long as you are fighting somebody close to your level then you can gain tokens at any level range, incentivizing WPvP even on lowbie alts.

    ~ these tokens can then be taken to multiple new vendors located at various places throughout the lands (one on each continent away from major cities, and one in a current city for convenience).

    ~ The vendors will sell transmog gear that is BoA (much like the War Mill offered at our Garry's). multiple sets for different gear types, weapons, enchants, pets/mounts, titles and even achieves. there should be lots of items to buy for lots of various prices, the goal here is to keep the costs low so as to not need to dedicate tons of time to get one item. this is an aspect that can be added to with each patch to keep the incentives going.

    stop treating WPvP like second class, and give it its own structure and cosmetic rewards. entice people to take a break from their normal daily routines because there is something easily within grasp for a reward. cost of rewards completely defines the success of the WPvP structure, making it to costly enforces too much grind to be worth the time.
    Last edited by Sinndra; 2015-08-06 at 09:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ablib View Post
    I do realize that this is an internet forum full of morons, however in real life, no one questions me, people look to me for the answer, look up to me, trust me. To have dipshits on a video game forum question me, is insulting.

  5. #5
    I like your overall idea, but the biggest problem I have is that it doesn't get you out into the gorgeous World of Warcraft enough. I would suggest something quite simple.

    A Daily Quest where each day you report to Stormwind/Ogrimmar and some NPC is telling you about how the opposite faction has gone and started some trouble in Zone X. You then are directed to go there and help capture a point. Once you capture the point, you get some sort of decent reward that makes it worth you actually going there. The whole point of this however is to get folks to visit all of the different zones in Northrend, Eastern Kingdoms, Kalimdor, Outlands, Draenor, etc... Each day, a new Zone.

    There are two ideas I have that could easily be done. A "Flag" to capture (easy to implement) or relocate the Black Market to a traveling group that has to be fought for on a PvP server. Each day the Travelling black market would be in a different zone and you'd have to go and escort it some amount of distance and (on PvE: Defend it from NPC's) (On PvP: Defend and hold it for your faction)

    I really want a real reason to get back into different old world zones that make them relevant once again and not just mothball things like they currently do.

    Keep in mind that any reward needs to be REAL and worth it otherwise folks won't even bother to go do it.
    Last edited by fly; 2015-08-07 at 09:37 PM.

  6. #6
    Deleted
    Imagine this:
    - In order all of that to work, they need to boost all PvP flagged guards accross all zones to level 100.
    - Any leveling player in such a zone will be instantly eradicated the moment they come close enough to aggro them. And in many zones you have to be really close for some quests.
    - Massive low level ganking accross all zones in all PvP realms.

    They can either phase level caps from the rest of the world, which is bad idea, or make low levels unattackable by max levels. Which is also bat since it promotes low level ganking over lower levels.

    I cant see how would they get around those obstacles.

  7. #7
    Deleted
    pvp is player vs player, those proposed events are pve just like most of ashran. You could have them without any attachment to pvp goals. Essentially they would be the same thing as gw2 or FF14 does with their events progressing depending on whether the players win a event or not.



    That aside there is a simple reason why blizz has no incentive for wpvp with meaningfull goals that everyone would want:
    Faction imbalance can't be solved while keeping combat between those 2 factions.

    There always will be one side dominating, getting everything and one complaining to blizz and losing players switching to the winning side or worst case ragequitting the game entirely. Currently the vast majority of serious pvp players are alliance.The only way to fix this is making it not based on the horde/alliance factions.

    The simplest solution would be an item like the timelost island incense that allows you to spontaniously fight for a side with 2 sides and an underdog bonus for the loosing side. Storywise something like 2 goblin factions like gadget&booty bay fighting for ressources and paying for you as a mercenary. Fullfilling jobs decreases the reward which means fighting for the loosing side becomes increasingly more beneficial. Should balance itself that way as both alliance&horde would split into both sides which would remove any faction balance problems.

  8. #8
    I like that you put a lot of effort into this but there's no way this would work, even if they do everything you said. World PvP won't ever be good anymore because of the way the players treat it. The larger group will almost always win. If you don't do anything about Faction imbalance, then one side will literally own everything. If one side owns everything, the other side can't do anything unless you make it not matter and then no one is going to want to do it. Putting in a way to grind for eternal gold isn't good either because of Bots. This also sounds immensely disruptive to the majority of players who want nothing to do with World PvP. Have 10mins to log on and do something? Good luck trying to get anything done because the other faction owns nearly the whole zone!

    I don't see anyway that World PvP gets revived and honestly, I'd rather just see it go away completely.

  9. #9
    There are hardly any pvp realms with a semblance of faction balance so this idea would never work.

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Bosen's Avatar
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    I like these ideas. This would be awesome for PVP servers. It really would bring a strong contrast.

  11. #11
    Warchief Duravian's Avatar
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    You missed a grand opportunity for "Murlocalypse" there. I love the idea. Make all zones conquerable to some degree!
    It's pronounced "Dur-av-ian."

  12. #12
    I like your idea very much, but it would be too much work to make.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by lunchbox2042 View Post
    There are hardly any pvp realms with a semblance of faction balance so this idea would never work.
    This right here is why world PvP will never be a thing.

    What's more fun? 10v10 BGs, 3v3 arenas, or 30v7 world PvP?

    Think the answer is pretty obvious. Sure, it might be fun for the group of 30 that instantly kills the group of 7 whenever they respawn, but that doesn't warrant any type of reward and it certainly isn't fun for the people that are massively outnumbered.

    World PvP is a numbers game, not actual PvP. It doesn't matter if you have the best 10 players in the world, they'll still get instantly killed if they play against 20 mediocre players. And how can you give rewards for having more people on your side? We used to see this with the original Wintergrasp, when one side just got completely rolled and they couldn't win, then they couldn't get the gear from the bosses inside. Eventually one side just stopped showing up, so it was no longer PvP, it was just wait 20 minutes for the thing to end to collect your honor.

    The only way world PvP could ever work is if there was a way to keep the numbers equal, and the only way to do that is with instances like Ashran. Otherwise you're just rewarding whichever faction has more players on it, and there still isn't any actual PvP.

  14. #14
    I am going to be honest, this is not "in depth"; this is as superficial as it can get and I didn't like your ideas, at all. I appreciate the effort tho.

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