European migrant crisis [Megathread]

[Slant]

Hypothetical? Haha you know damn well were we are going with this, thats why you try to cut it short.

My stephdad was the kind of guy that liked to tell stories in his point of views favour (bit like u but even worse). So yeah, that actually was the whole story.

90% of Muslims don't force their female children to wear Hijabs. End of story. Your analogy fails right there.. jesus fuck, do we have to spell everything out every time?

[Deleted]

You're not in Sweden, you're in private property that happens to be in Sweden.
That means you either follow the customs of the owner, or you get the fuck out and accept your bad grade.

My customs are no head covering. No caps, no hats, no fedora's, no Hijabs.
So i guess were on the same page.

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90% of Muslims don't force their female children to wear Hijabs. End of story. Your analogy fails right there.. jesus fuck, do we have to spell everything out every time?

Source for that statement?

[Slant]

My customs are no head covering. No caps, no hats, no fedora's, no Hijabs.
So i guess were on the same page.

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Source for that statement?

Every Muslim in Germany that I've spoken to in my entire life...

[Sama-81]

You're not in Sweden, you're in private property that happens to be in Sweden.
That means you either follow the customs of the owner, or you get the fuck out and accept your bad grade.

So a museum you have to go to for a good history-grade, can declare that wearing a chain with a crucifix is a must-wear to enter?

[Slant]

So a museum you have to go to for a good history-grade, can declare that wearing a chain with a crucifix is a must-wear to enter?

Nope, but they can ask you to not run and behave in a quiet, respectful manner so other visitors can enjoy the exhibitions. See, context is important. Wearing a cross or not is not essential to the function of the museum, so that doesn't even make sense.

[Sama-81]

Nope, but they can ask you to not run and behave in a quiet, respectful manner so other visitors can enjoy the exhibitions. See, context is important. Wearing a cross or not is not essential to the function of the museum, so that doesn't even make sense.

Context is important, hah? My question was in regards to Kangodo's statement only (which you obviously disagree with, seeing your answer), but since you don't seem to understand the context of my statement (see what I quite rightfully did there?), how's this for context - When I was visiting a big orthodox church in Romania, the same as you just wrote applied, even though a woman was midway through confession. Which makes it viable in a mosque as well, by any standard conceivable, i.e. an observer-status without wearing religious symbols.

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Depends on the museum.
Does it matter?
Is there a museum that wants to do this?

It's besides the point if there is one or not, and if it suddenly depends then you're already backpedalling.

[Ethas]

I guess stupid european governments should support ISIS more. This obviously will resolve the issue...

[Slant]

Context is important, hah? My question was in regards to Kangodo's statement only (which you obviously disagree with, seeing your answer), but since you don't seem to understand the context of my statement (see what I quite rightfully did there?), how's this for context - When I was visiting a big orthodox church in Romania, the same as you just wrote applied, even though a woman was midway through confession. Which makes it viable in a mosque as well, by any standard conceivable, i.e. an observer-status without wearing religious symbols.

Huh? I thought you were talking about a museum, now you're talking about a church? Where is the connection? Did they force you to wear a crucifix? Do you think any church is automatically a museum? Or do you think a museum is a church? Do you think confessions can be made in a museum? And most importantly... are you allowed to run and make noise in a church?

So many questions, so confusing context...

[Deleted]

Every Muslim in Germany that I've spoken to in my entire life...

Oh ok. And here I was thinking you only had anecdotical evidence.
Thanks for the "sources".

[Slant]

Oh ok. And here I was thinking you only had anecdotical evidence.
Thanks for the "sources".

Ok, point me to an all Muslim poll regarding that question with a conclusive and unbiased result. No? Guess not, so you did ask me for an impossible proof, didn't you? Now, since this game is fun, show me your source that states 90% of Muslim dads force their daughters to wear Hijabs.

Go ahead... make my day. :P

[Leonaras]

With strangers? What?

Given your general responses on this forum you have already proven that you are pretty antisocial, so its not a suprise that talking to strangers seems alien to you.

[Yriel]

making people adhere to Muslim cultures = radical Imams.. you heard it here first folks.

you do realise, even a "non radical" Imam would still request you wear the hijab. And also refuse entry if you didn't

Why do you think the rule for a woman to wear a hijab exists ?

The more people hate towards the Hijab because it represents Islam, the more Muslim women wear it out of spite to represent their belief. By now any original meaning - while still present - probably takes a step back to making a statement about being Muslim and not giving a shit about you hating on it. :P

"Hey the people in the country we migrated to don't like one of our habits. So let's do it even more out of spite".
Yay integration.

[Sama-81]

Huh? I thought you were talking about a museum, now you're talking about a church? Where is the connection? Did they force you to wear a crucifix? Do you think any church is automatically a museum? Or do you think a museum is a church? Do you think confessions can be made in a museum? And most importantly... are you allowed to run and make noise in a church?

So many questions, so confusing context...

But really now...it wasn't that hard to understand, and if you're trying to be funny, it is really majorly backfiring on you, I'm afraid. The museum was only in regards to Kangodo, and was only a question based on the premise he set up, nothing else, namely private enterprises (which many museums are) being able to enforce whatever rule they wished. There was nothing for you to debate in it, in regards to me - I never said anything at all about it. Not a word beside a contextual question, there is literally nothing for you to be confused about in regards to that bit. It might help to read the quoted parts in a post, as well as the actual post...

As for the latter, about the church, it was in regards to the actual debate in this thread. And my point was, put in another way, that if you see the context as being so vital, then the entire case of "must-have-veil-in-mosque" falls like a rock, since the context of the situation was students coming to observe (exactly as what often times happens in a museum), and that there is no other religion that forces observers to adapt in any way or form to the goings on in a standard place of worship when merely visiting - not even when as vital and personal a thing as a confession takes place in as conservative a setting as an orthodox church. Besides to not to disturb, obviously, like you pointed out above, in regards to the museum. The same ruleset, the same basic contexts (students learning and standard place of worship). It all perfectly frames how mosques are unique when it comes to actually imposing things on the visitors.

[Yriel]

because there wasnt any other nations army involved in afghan or iraq. just UK and US right......

the ignorance is strong with this one.

The "west" didn't cause ISIS
the "west" also the reason that they all travel here instead of neighboring Muslim states.

There is nothing stopping these people going to Lebanon, Jordan, UAE, SA ect, other than the fact that they want "free stuff" handed to them.

Arab tribes have been killing each other in one way or another for millenia and probably for millenia more. Stop blaming others for it.

I agree. It seems the only way those arab countries can be ruled is by a strong dictator. Every time one of those dictators was removed the people started killing each other.
It's amazing.

[Sama-81]

No, that matters.
A museum doesn't care about these things, they want visitors.. As long as they follow the museum-rules.
And that last thing matters: A museum has rules too.

But a privately owned museum would be allowed to require a crucifix.
Though I think the board would be against it since that would really mess with their income.

I don't agree with you, but neither will I debate the point - your opinion is quite fine in my opinion, as long as you would deem it allowable. What really angers me is inconsistency, and as long as people treat everyone alike, I can respect a difference of opinions when it comes to the actual ruleset. At least there are others far more important to oppose, to waste energy on it.

[l0nglive]

He will eventually be on my ignore list like the others, but for now I'll have my fun with him and keep people educated on just how wrong he is. See, I want people to not fall for this kind of idiocy. I don't expect him to change his opinion, I'm responding for the sake of the others that may read his bullshit.

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This is a distinction that the Mosque really doesn't need to concern itself with, isn't it?

I think exception is fair. If someone comes to a pagoda in mini skirt unintentionally, she will be exempt. We usually forgive the non-believers.
Teachers should not give a poor mark if someone is refusing to participate. Imagine that teacher bring Muslim students to a Chinese new year party to experience the culture, they will be shocked of pork. Religion class is something sensitive, thus, we should grant exception in cases like Lilla's.

[Vilendor]

Thread title should be changed from 'European migrant crisis' to 'European headwear crisis'.

Yeah, i already ridiculed them once, but they keep doing it

Meanwhile the new EU plan is out. Their awesome new solution which will solve every problem: increase the quota and take in more people from Croatia

[Slant]

"Hey the people in the country we migrated to don't like one of our habits. So let's do it even more out of spite".
Yay integration.

Nah, it's just them being proud of their heritage. And why not?

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I think exception is fair. If someone comes to a pagoda in mini skirt unintentionally, she will be exempt. We usually forgive the non-believers.
Teachers should not give a poor mark if someone is refusing to participate. Imagine that teacher bring Muslim students to a Chinese new year party to experience the culture, they will be shocked of pork. Religion class is something sensitive, thus, we should grant exception in cases like Lilla's.

That's exactly what I'm saying. And all of this is not the Mosque's fault.

[Acidbaron]

Tabloids still being used as sources. Stay classy.

Neither extreme is right in this case as usual, being completely xenophobic sends the wrong message so does merely welcoming them all, although the latter really isn't happening on a government level so far i have seen.
It's also interesting to note that people point out correctly so that we expanded the EU zone too quickly, some countries shouldn't have been allowed in yet. Not that this would have stopped the crisis much since it's related to not acting for 4 years.

I would've liked to see the plan of the 'Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe' come to pass as mentioned a while back. Right now we don't have a good oversight of all that's happening and who is entering and while sorry folks but war refugees is one thing, luck seekers is another. Give it a month and we will probably start forcefully sending back people who aren't part of demographic we aim to give refuge. At least in Belgium not sure about other countries.

[Deleted]

Yeah, i already ridiculed them once, but they keep doing it

Meanwhile the new EU plan is out. Their awesome new solution which will solve every problem: increase the quota and take in more people from Croatia

As if this would help. Mostly I think that many people have the memory capacity of a fruit fly.

Regarding the quotas I sincerely hope, that they anti-quotas alliance stays strong. This EU dictate is not only extremely counterproductive, it sends an absolute wrong signal to the immigrants.
I don't follow the part, where the countries have to agree to the distribution quotas, but they aren't in the end obligatory.
So as I understand, in the end the countries, who are in the core against this quota, could accept this but in the end only let in as much people as they actually want.

This article is a little bit too vague and we'll have to wait until more information leaks out.