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  1. #61
    And we're not talking about situations where a woman's put herself at risk. We're talking about a woman wearing normal clothes just doing normal stuff. There's no such thing as "dressing provocatively", not when we're talking about clothes they'd wear in public. A woman wearing attractive clothes is not "provocative", in any way.
    Dude, you either have a very loose set of standards, or you don't see the absolute trashy clothing I've seen some women wearing.

    What is "Legal" in public isn't anywhere near "Tasteful". You can step out in public in a g-string and a bikini bra and be "legal". As long as you cover 3 little parts of your body, you're good as far as the law goes.

    Obviously, that isn't very tasteful and it is very trashy to be walking around like that in public. But it isn't illegal per se.

    You can't tell me that you've never seen women who are wearing skin-tight pants that don't even come all the way up past the butt where you see the g-string thong they got underneath every time they lean forward, the bare belly tube shirt they got on that exposes half of their breasts, and/or the open vest type deal where they let you see half of their chest and if they move the wrong way they're going to have a wardrobe malfunction, etc etc.

    You can't tell me you don't see that crap in public on a regular basis. If you are trying to tell me that, where do you live, a monastery?

  2. #62
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilla Blomma View Post
    No, it doesn't "depend" on how you act, what you say(Unless you're basically saying "rape me") or "other forms of communcation".
    Yes, if you rides some guys crutch then it is not a real stretch to imagine that he might grab a hold of you without him asking it first. And if you continue along these lines then there are allot of mixed signals. Specially if you mumble a soft no that one time when you where licking him somewhere like he was a pop stickle.

  3. #63
    Just like I don't go down the road flashing the contents of purse, like money or credit cards I also don't go down the road flashing my naughty bits for the same reason.

  4. #64
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeHMeH View Post
    So according to you every guy that wants to get laid and tries his best (without raping her) is still a rapist? No wonder that people tend to not take this stuff serious anymore.
    If you're pushing a woman past what she's comfortable with, you're a rapist, dude. That's not "wanting to get laid", that's "wanting to coerce a woman into sex", which is the literal definition of rape.

    Normal men don't do that shit. Because that's rape. And we're not rapists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    (The police will, however, talk to people about how to avoid situations that put you at greater risk of being victimized. That's not "Blaming" anyone, nor does anyone claim that it is about any other crime. :| )
    If we're going to say "these are dangerous situations that put you at greater risk", that's fine, but it doesn't mean the victim has any form of responsibility or blame for their being victimized. Which is what the article set out to claim. If anything, it means we should ask ourselves why those situations are dangerous, and how we can mitigate that.


  5. #65
    The Lightbringer Rend Blackhand's Avatar
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    Reducing exposure to risk is not victim blaming.

    Is it victim blaming to say to a victim of burglary that they should have locked their doors?

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Well, that's the discussion point basically in this: where does victim blaming begin and where does personal responsibility for your safety end?
    I'm sure we've already had a case where a woman ground her lady parts into a guy and then accused of sexual assault when he touched them.

    You know what happens if I go shirtless at a gay club/bar with some shorts that show all my parts off? I get grabbed. I don't want to get touched? I wear looser fitting shorts.

  7. #67
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Or to make herself feel pretty. Or to make women think they're attractive.

    And me thinking a girl is attractive is not remotely going to make me "rapey". I don't get rapey, because I'm not a sick bastard.

    Your argument is no different in character from Saudi men saying that the flash of an ankle made them rape that girl. That's exactly the argument you're making here. I'm not going to ever agree that it's valid.
    Or to make them selves look pretty? Do you even listen to what you are saying? There are numerous ways of being pretty without running around in your bare ass. If you dress to look sexy then you dress to impress, if someone els is impressed and you don't want other people to be impressed, you should not dress for that. Its not rocket science.

  8. #68
    Does a rapist who rapes an "easy" victim make them any less of a rapist? Any less of a monstrous human being? Does it make the victim any less of a victim?
    I never said the rapist was not at fault, nor did I ever say they were not guilty of rape, nor did I ever say that anything the victim did justified the crime.

    Rape is never justified by any means.

    However, there ARE times when the victim put themselves in a position to become a victim. It is just simple fact. But the whole point of those post is you can't DARE say that or everybody jumps on you for "victim-blaming". Just trying to tell people "stay safe out there, be reasonable" is somehow translated into "victim-blaming"... and that's just stupid.

    Women wanna wear whatever skimpy trashy stuff they can wear legally and expect to never be in danger.... is just as bad as the rich guy in the armani suit wanting to carry his briefcase full of stuff down a ghetto street at night.

  9. #69
    Moderator Crissi's Avatar
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    Im ok with telling people, before the fact, to be cautions. However, theres only so much caution to be had before to become a virtual hermit, especially when rape is more often between people that know each other already. Telling soeone after the fact though, is victim blaming. No one likes "haha I told you, you shouldve dont this".

    Anyways, Im not going to adjust my behavior anymore than it already is just to please some "if you dont do this you kidna deserved it" people. Then again, Im apparantly too chubby to attract a rapist!

    Also, someone explain how to dress to cover up large breast silhouettes without wearing a baggy t-shirt?

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If you're pushing a woman past what she's comfortable with, you're a rapist, dude. That's not "wanting to get laid", that's "wanting to coerce a woman into sex", which is the literal definition of rape.

    Normal men don't do that shit. Because that's rape. And we're not rapists.



    If we're going to say "these are dangerous situations that put you at greater risk", that's fine, but it doesn't mean the victim has any form of responsibility or blame for their being victimized. Which is what the article set out to claim. If anything, it means we should ask ourselves why those situations are dangerous, and how we can mitigate that.
    Everything is coercion then. Men making themselves look attractive is coercive. So according to what you just said if I wear anything other than a burlap sack with hair unwashed for 3 months, it's rape because I'm trying to coerce women. And furthermore women wearing revealing clothes is rape to men because it's trying to attract men who normally wouldn't want to have sex with them.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeHMeH View Post
    Yes, if you rides some guys crutch then it is not a real stretch to imagine that he might grab a hold of you without him asking it first. And if you continue along these lines then there are allot of mixed signals. Specially if you mumble a soft no that one time when you where licking him somewhere like he was a pop stickle.
    There's really no mixed signals if you tell someone "No". No has no room for interpretation, it's pretty concise for not wanting something.

  12. #72
    Deleted
    I say it's not their -fault- if they get raped, because it's only the rapist out to do this sort of thing. They probably leave their house thinking 'Tonights the night I do this', whereas the girls will just be thinking 'I look hot in this short skirt and crop top, everyone will be so jealous!'

    I wouldn't blame the girls at all, but it definitely doesn't -help- the situation, or the possibility that it could happen.

    Do you walk down the street swinging your wallet saying 'Oh my I am so lost! Anyone know the way to the train station?' then go down a dark alley and expect not to be mugged? You might not be planning it, but if you go around looking vulnerable, you will more than likely get attacked. And to that extent you can get a fraction of blame for not being careful.

  13. #73
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaelai View Post
    Dude, you either have a very loose set of standards, or you don't see the absolute trashy clothing I've seen some women wearing.

    What is "Legal" in public isn't anywhere near "Tasteful". You can step out in public in a g-string and a bikini bra and be "legal". As long as you cover 3 little parts of your body, you're good as far as the law goes.

    Obviously, that isn't very tasteful and it is very trashy to be walking around like that in public. But it isn't illegal per se.
    Y'know, I go to the beach all the time, and see plenty of women in bikinis, and I can somehow manage to not rape any of them.

    Funny how that works out, me not being a rapist. We're back to the Saudi men saying "I saw her ankle, I couldn't help but rape her". That's literally the argument you are making, here, the only difference is the level of dress that you're arguing pushed you over the edge.

    You can't tell me that you've never seen women who are wearing skin-tight pants that don't even come all the way up past the butt where you see the g-string thong they got underneath every time they lean forward, the bare belly tube shirt they got on that exposes half of their breasts, and/or the open vest type deal where they let you see half of their chest and if they move the wrong way they're going to have a wardrobe malfunction, etc etc.

    You can't tell me you don't see that crap in public on a regular basis. If you are trying to tell me that, where do you live, a monastery?
    Yes, I've seen that. That's called "clothing". It doesn't make me want to rape them, because I'm not sick in the head. Which you'd have to be, to think that.


  14. #74
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by gypsybob View Post
    Reducing exposure to risk is not victim blaming.

    Is it victim blaming to say to a victim of burglary that they should have locked their doors?
    You're at highest risk when you're with male friends or your partner, in your home or their home. So...

  15. #75
    Dreadlord The Yeti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeHMeH View Post
    Or to make them selves look pretty? Do you even listen to what you are saying? There are numerous ways of being pretty without running around in your bare ass. If you dress to look sexy then you dress to impress, if someone els is impressed and you don't want other people to be impressed, you should not dress for that. Its not rocket science.
    There are a number of different descriptions of "pretty". For some, pretty is a modest sweater and jeans. Others, pretty is booty shorts and a tube top.

    Again, it's an opinion of what makes somebody "pretty"

    And just because you are impressed with somebody's looks does not mean that you should be driven to rape them.



  16. #76
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If you're pushing a woman past what she's comfortable with, you're a rapist, dude. That's not "wanting to get laid", that's "wanting to coerce a woman into sex", which is the literal definition of rape.

    Normal men don't do that shit. Because that's rape. And we're not rapists.



    If we're going to say "these are dangerous situations that put you at greater risk", that's fine, but it doesn't mean the victim has any form of responsibility or blame for their being victimized. Which is what the article set out to claim. If anything, it means we should ask ourselves why those situations are dangerous, and how we can mitigate that.
    Having difficulty reading again? I said, without raping her. All boys will be trying their best to get laid, and now you are shaming them for it for calling them rapist. They didn't rape, so you should not call them rapist. We have had a similar discussion about something alike, then it was about culture. You can't just call something something els. A bicycle just isn't the same as a computer.. You might not like what those guys are doing, but it isn't rape, so do not call them rapist.

  17. #77
    I never blame the victim for rape. The fault lies squarely on the one committing the crime.

    But as others have said we don't live in a perfect society. It's not unreasonable to take some common sense precautions. Don't walk down dark alleys alone at night. Don't leave money or expensive jewelry/electronics sitting out in your car in a parking lot. Don't open suspicious emails. Don't ship out your used ps4 to Nigeria before you have the payment in your actual account.

    Suggesting simple precautions to avoid being raped is not victim blaming. I shouldn't have to lock my car and front door, but we live in an imperfect society. Is it fair to girls to have to dress more conservatively or be more careful while partying? No. It's not fair. But suggesting things like this to help cut down on rape isn't victim blaming. It's being realistic. That's not to say we shouldn't hold rapists accountable, and that there isn't progress to be made on that front. But until such a time as we're able to root out rapists entirely, it's just smart, if perhaps unfair, to be a bit more cautious until then. It's not fair, but life isn't fair in general.
    Last edited by Florena; 2015-09-01 at 04:14 PM.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Packers01 View Post
    No. Just stop.
    Why don't you actually say something to back up your point instead of just saying "No just stop"?

    You can't refute it, so you just say a little one liner.

    So maybe you should actually practice what you preach and stop posting useless posts?

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Y'know, I go to the beach all the time, and see plenty of women in bikinis, and I can somehow manage to not rape any of them.

    Funny how that works out, me not being a rapist. We're back to the Saudi men saying "I saw her ankle, I couldn't help but rape her". That's literally the argument you are making, here, the only difference is the level of dress that you're arguing pushed you over the edge.



    Yes, I've seen that. That's called "clothing". It doesn't make me want to rape them, because I'm not sick in the head. Which you'd have to be, to think that.
    No they raped you according to your stance. You didn't want to have sex with them and they are trying to coerce you to do so.

  20. #80
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    Everything is coercion then. Men making themselves look attractive is coercive. So according to what you just said if I wear anything other than a burlap sack with hair unwashed for 3 months, it's rape because I'm trying to coerce women. And furthermore women wearing revealing clothes is rape to men because it's trying to attract men who normally wouldn't want to have sex with them.
    If you (try to) push someone beyond what they're comfortable with, then yes; it's coercion.

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