"Chrissie Hynde was right about rape. Now feminists want to silence her"

[Deleted]

There are *dozens* of sources, i linked one of the first one, then linked the second. http://chersonandmolschky.com/2014/0...-speech-islam/ here's a third. Must be propaganda right? I guess whenever a European is discussing an issue in America they should shut the fuck up and never offer an input, criticism, or ask for clarity because they aren't living there and couldn't possibly have anything to offer to the discussion

Acquitted in the court of appeal, so, doesn't matter.

[Druidjezus]

I will add that we should also flog those that try and silence the idea that women should take precautions to prevent rape (whoever that is, seeing as the article is trusting me to take their words face value).

I'm starting to get the drift that, for the people in this thread at least, they're more saying they think precautions will be ineffective because most rape doesn't happen in circumstances like the article the OP linked. I knew this, I just thought it was wise to try and protect yourself from even the less probable forms of a crime, apparently that is wrong.

[Vanyali]

This is like talking to a feminist, where they only twist your words to fit their point of view. Ugh, I'll explain what the word highly means now, so everyone can understand. Highly, is an adverb, used to describe a high degree or levels, it's used in probability views mostly. So in this case, I said Alcohol is highly involved in rape. Highly, doesn't infer 100% in any shape or form or in every case. Other things do happens, stranger rape happens, gang rape, military rape, and all sorts of other forms of rape do exist out there. Not every case includes alcohol, and hell their is marital rape as well, and I won't deny that.

When your talking about probabilities, you talk usually about the highest segment that infected, which is mostly friend or acquaintance rape, in which alcohol is involved. Outlying parameters do exist and aren't discounted, but in most of those situations it can't be prevented no matter what was done.

It's like a school shooting, are you going to shutdown every school, because one situation of it happens, it's highly insignificant. Not to make it sound like what happen to you wasn't terrible or awful, which it was. I look at things with mathematical probability and the way it can be helped. Honestly your situation, is just one that doesn't fit.

Again:

Most rapes have little to do with alcohol. And most of the "protections" given for it do fuck-all for people you known and trust, as you're not out anywhere - you're in your house, hanging out with a friend (or at their house). Tell me... how would you protect against being assaulted in your own home by someone you know and trust? Why should you be afraid to hang out or, in the other cases, have a drink with someone you've known for years in your own home?

Unless the solution is "don't do anything around men, ever", you'll realize why that stance is so bullshit.

[AzazeltheRuthless]

Now now ladies, no catfighting in the harem.

I thought batman enjoyed catfighting though? Lol.

[Druidjezus]

Again:

Most rapes have little to do with alcohol. And most of the "protections" given for it do fuck-all for people you known and trust, as you're not out anywhere - you're in your house, hanging out with a friend (or at their house). Tell me... how would you protect against being assaulted in your own home by someone you know and trust? Why should you be afraid to hang out or, in the other cases, have a drink with someone you've known for years in your own home?

Unless the solution is "don't do anything around men, ever", you'll realize why that stance is so bullshit.

You're absolutely right, it is completely unreasonable to put up defenses against most cases of rape. But does that mean it's pointless to try and safeguard against the others?

[Deleted]

You're absolutely right, it is completely unreasonable to put up defenses against most cases of rape. But does that mean it's pointless to try and safeguard against the others?

It's pretty much impossible to do, unless you want to distrust just about any man.

[Vanyali]

You're absolutely right, it is completely unreasonable to put up defenses against most cases of rape. But does that mean it's pointless to try and safeguard against the others?

Those safeguards aren't anything more than the same safeguards for men - don't walk in shady areas, be ready to protect yourself, and bring a partner if possible. Don't shout insults at people, don't wave money around, etc etc.

Except, for some reason, it's been decided that wearing a dress means men can't control themselves, so don't do that either. Or make yourself attractive at all. because you'll attract attention, and that's your fault for going outside attracting attention. It's stupid. Blaming someone for wearing something that made someone "lose control" is stupid. That loss of control is squarely on ONE person.. and it's not the person wearing the "so tempting" clothes.

[Deleted]

I'm starting to get the drift that, for the people in this thread at least, they're more saying they think precautions will be ineffective because most rape doesn't happen in circumstances like the article the OP linked. I knew this, I just thought it was wise to try and protect yourself from even the less probable forms of a crime, apparently that is wrong.

I think the problem is that this is the most taught one (sometimes the only one) and also falls somewhat under common sense (somewhat!). Of course that doesn't mean it shouldn't be continued to be taught, but it should be noted that it is the rarer occurrence and more information should be given on the more occurring forms of rape. I think the misunderstanding between those two, is that some think we say it shouldn't be taught, when really the message is that it shouldn't be the most taught and not block the way for the more important and viable lesson.

It is tough to discuss, because the message can be blurry, but I feel we are getting somewhere here

[Therion777]

How many of you know someone who was raped? This is ridiculous. Clothes have nothing to do with it, looks have nothing to do with it. If it was only about looks, it wouldn't happen nearly as often. Rape, whether you believe it or not, is a crime of power, sometimes a crime of passion, and has nothing to do with being a sexual thing. Is gratification happening? Yes, but that's not why they did it. What makes me so sure? I've had to go to the court rooms of friends and family and hear scumbag rapists testify. I have also had to sit on a jury in a rape case, with pictures. Close family was raped. Her bones eye cracked, her joints dislocated, and she got a concussion. She was wearing baggy jeans and a hoody. Everyone needs to realize rape isn't a cool thing, and rape has nothing to do with looks or with how you dress. Ignorance is not bliss, but is the cancer of reason.

That being said, young girls and women should also be taught to look for warning signs and stay away from some volatile situations. . Don't go down a dark alley with a stranger, don't hang out with that guy that gives you creeper vibes. More people in general should be taught to listen to their intuition, and that would help immensely.

[Druidjezus]

It's pretty much impossible to do, unless you want to distrust just about any man.

For most cases yes, but it's not like the GHB in the drink at a party and grabbed walking home at night stuff just doesn't happen at all. It's probably a statistically irrelevant possibility that the guy I see walking towards me on the sidewalk at night is actually a mugger waiting for his moment to strike. That doesn't mean I'm not planning on how to take him down if he makes a sudden move at me. You can call it paranoia, I call it being cautious.

[Deleted]

For most cases yes, but it's not like the GHB in the drink at a party and grabbed walking home at night stuff just doesn't happen at all. It's probably a statistically irrelevant possibility that the guy I see walking towards me on the sidewalk at night is actually a mugger waiting for his moment to strike. That doesn't mean I'm not planning on how to take him down if he makes a sudden move at me. You can call it paranoia, I call it being cautious.

I've been there before in my life(Being paranoid about men), it ended up with me at a psychiatric ward for pulling a knife to a guys throat. It's not healthy.

[Vanyali]

For most cases yes, but it's not like the GHB in the drink at a party and grabbed walking home at night stuff just doesn't happen at all. It's probably a statistically irrelevant possibility that the guy I see walking towards me on the sidewalk at night is actually a mugger waiting for his moment to strike. That doesn't mean I'm not planning on how to take him down if he makes a sudden move at me. You can call it paranoia, I call it being cautious.

That's not rape precaution, though. That's general safety. The fact that it's emphasized so hard for rape is odd, when it's something BOTH genders do (and should do!) for safety. the fact that threads are full of general safety tips like that for how to "avoid rape"is most of the problem.

[Druidjezus]

Those safeguards aren't anything more than the same safeguards for men - don't walk in shady areas, be ready to protect yourself, and bring a partner if possible. Don't shout insults at people, don't wave money around, etc etc.

Except, for some reason, it's been decided that wearing a dress means men can't control themselves, so don't do that either. Or make yourself attractive at all. because you'll attract attention, and that's your fault for going outside attracting attention. It's stupid. Blaming someone for wearing something that made someone "lose control" is stupid. That loss of control is squarely on ONE person.. and it's not the person wearing the "so tempting" clothes.

I guarantee if you go through my posts I never said that women need to change the way they dress. Otherwise, you're pretty much spot on, I've just been here advocating for being safe, but for some reason I'm told it's pointless to do that, probably because I'm perceived as being 'the opposition' or something, but seriously, look at my posts, it's what I've been saying.

[Vanyali]

I guarantee if you go through my posts I never said that women need to change the way they dress. Otherwise, you're pretty much spot on, I've just been here advocating for being safe, but for some reason I'm told it's pointless to do that, probably because I'm perceived as being 'the opposition' or something, but seriously, look at my posts, it's what I've been saying.

That part wasn't for you. In general. We have the general safety (of how to avoid crime) then the woman-only, which boils down to "don't commit the crime of attractive outdoors".

[Druidjezus]

That's not rape precaution, though. That's general safety. The fact that it's emphasized so hard for rape is odd, when it's something BOTH genders do (and should do!) for safety. the fact that threads are full of general safety tips like that for how to "avoid rape"is most of the problem.

Oh I agree, it's stupid to say they're precautions against rape. They are general precautions that people should use, and I brought them up because the woman in the article the OP posted clearly didn't exercise them, just as my friend who got robbed on the train while passed out drunk did not. People should just be careful to keep themselves safe, that's all.

[Deleted]

How many of you know someone who was raped? This is ridiculous. Clothes have nothing to do with it, looks have nothing to do with it. If it was only about looks, it wouldn't happen nearly as often. Rape, whether you believe it or not, is a crime of power, sometimes a crime of passion, and has nothing to do with being a sexual thing. Is gratification happening? Yes, but that's not why they did it. What makes me so sure? I've had to go to the court rooms of friends and family and hear scumbag rapists testify. I have also had to sit on a jury in a rape case, with pictures. Close family was raped. Her bones eye cracked, her joints dislocated, and she got a concussion. She was wearing baggy jeans and a hoody. Everyone needs to realize rape isn't a cool thing, and rape has nothing to do with looks or with how you dress. Wake the fuck up, ignorance is not bliss, but is the cancer of reason.

I know quite some people it's happened to and it's happened to me as well.

[Druidjezus]

That part wasn't for you. In general. We have the general safety (of how to avoid crime) then the woman-only, which boils down to "don't commit the crime of attractive outdoors".

I assure you, I am very much pro women being attractive outdoors.

[Deleted]

That part wasn't for you. In general. We have the general safety (of how to avoid crime) then the woman-only, which boils down to "don't commit the crime of attractive outdoors".

Oh man, so many serial criminals on this website

[Vanyali]

Oh I agree, it's stupid to say they're precautions against rape. They are general precautions that people should use, and I brought them up because the woman in the article the OP posted clearly didn't exercise them, just as my friend who got robbed on the train while passed out drunk did not. People should just be careful to keep themselves safe, that's all.

The thing is.. if she just got mugged, people would be pointing and saying "yeah, you made dumb decisions. why would you get drunk and ride off with strangers?" and so on, with some general "sorry that happened to yours". But, because it was rape, it automatically moves to "god, you're so stupid for getting drunk around men. probably dressed like a slut too. i bet you wanted it and just had regret-sex".

[Ol Scratch]

It's pretty much impossible to do, unless you want to distrust just about any man.

Yeah, because all men are evil rapists just biding their time. Nailed it.

Sorry, but if you want to dramatically lower your chances of getting raped, don't dress like a slut, don't get drunk around complete and utter strangers, and don't go wandering off into quiet little areas with people you don't trust especially in a situation that is otherwise rapey. Guess what! Do those things and chances are you'll be a genuine outlier if and when you do get raped, and in those cases, you will not only get, but deserve, any and all sympathy others have to offer.

It's all about not being a completely and utter moron. That's not "slut shaming" or "victim blaming," it's "quite being a fucktard"ing. Want to drastically lower the chances of having your car stolen? Well don't leave it idling with the door wide open when you run into a store, especially in a neighborhood known for its criminal element. That kind of logic is exactly the same sentiment behind the "don't dress like a slut, dumbass" statements.

Does it mean having your car stolen or being raped isn't still a horrible thing to have happen to you? Nope. Does it mean the criminal doesn't deserve to be prosecuted under the full weight of the law? Nope. However, and most importantly: Does it mean you deserve any sympathy for all but inviting someone to victimize you? Nope. Just like the guy who left his car idling.

Sure, you can do whatever you want. It's your body/your car. But don't expect anyone to feel bad for you when you do something stupid with it, not because you deserve it, but because you shouldn't have been such a fucking moron in the first place.