Page 7 of 66 FirstFirst ...
5
6
7
8
9
17
57
... LastLast
  1. #121
    Moderator Crissi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    The Moon
    Posts
    31,187
    Quote Originally Posted by Xaelai View Post
    That's like saying "there is nothing you do that contributes to being mugged".

    Woman steps outside in alluring clothing that shows off half of her body and gets men to drool over her, and then gets raped... uh, yes, she contributed to the rape. Maybe if she hadn't been doing her best to try and get men to look at her and sexually desire her, then maybe she wouldn't have contributed a rapist being pushed over the edge?

    Just like the rich guy walking down a ghetto street at night example contributed to the mugging by flaunting his wealth in the poor part of town with no protection or common sense.
    If you cant control yourself, the problem is you, not her. Keep your dick in your pants.

  2. #122
    Brewmaster Lovecrafts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    1,345
    Quote Originally Posted by The Yeti View Post
    Stop implying that women are part of the cause of rapes and instead focus on what can be done to educate men to get their shit together and stop viewing women as purely sexual objects?

    - - - Updated - - -



    And when the drugged person says "No." to sex, does that mean that it's still the victim's fault?
    If the victim put themselves in that situation by choosing to take drugs, then yes it's partially their fault. You assume that pointing out what the victim did wrong somehow lessens the severity of the crime. It doesn't, the criminal still should get the same punishment, but by pointing out what the victim could have done to protect herself, maybe...just MAYBE some other people will learn and wont put themselves in the same situation in the future.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Packers01 View Post
    So drinking, doing drugs or going to parties alone is now punishable by rape?
    Doing the above things can be a contributing factor to getting raped. Use your brain and don't put yourself willingly into those situations.
    Let's make America GREAT again. Trump 2016.

    The community whined and bitched and cried, they stamped their little feet and demanded faster expansion releases. They don't get to complain now that expansions are shorter.

  3. #123
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    64,070
    Quote Originally Posted by The Yeti View Post
    Stop implying that women are part of the cause of rapes and instead focus on what can be done to educate men to get their shit together and stop viewing women as purely sexual objects?
    Can we please stop blaming "men"? The problem is the minority of men who are rapists. Most of us don't rape, for the same reason we don't murder; because we're not sick in the head.

    You don't need to "educate men" about rape. The problem is that a small percentage of men are misogynistic dickbags who don't give two shits about women and will freely abuse them to get their rocks off. And education won't help that, not really; they'll dismiss the root principle, that women are their equals and should be respected as such.

    Hopefully my invective against rapists prior to this post makes it clear that I'm immensely anti-rape and am in no way being an apologist here, just making the point that most men would never rape a girl, under any circumstances.

  4. #124
    Dreadlord The Yeti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    In The Mountains
    Posts
    785
    Quote Originally Posted by Xaelai View Post
    Stop implying that women don't view themselves as sexual objects when they do their best to try and get men to look at them in a sexual way, lol.
    Ah, yes, blaming the woman again for trying to look "pretty" and act "sexy". A woman dances close to a man wearing sexy clothes, must mean they want to get raped.



  5. #125
    The Lightbringer Rend Blackhand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Grommashar
    Posts
    3,664
    Quote Originally Posted by The Yeti View Post
    Stop implying that women are part of the cause of rapes and instead focus on what can be done to educate men to get their shit together and stop viewing women as purely sexual objects?
    Rapists cause rape, fucktard. What I'm saying is there are ways to avoid some dangerous situations.

    You can't 'educate' people to not rape. Folk have tried to stop people from murdering, raping and stealing since the dawn of human history. It just doesn't work like that. There will always be evil people and only the extinction of our species will stop it.

    Also, I really hate the fact that it is constantly implied that men are predators to be feared and 'educated'.

  6. #126
    Dreadlord The Yeti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    In The Mountains
    Posts
    785
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Can we please stop blaming "men"? The problem is the minority of men who are rapists. Most of us don't rape, for the same reason we don't murder; because we're not sick in the head.

    You don't need to "educate men" about rape. The problem is that a small percentage of men are misogynistic dickbags who don't give two shits about women and will freely abuse them to get their rocks off. And education won't help that, not really; they'll dismiss the root principle, that women are their equals and should be respected as such.

    Hopefully my invective against rapists prior to this post makes it clear that I'm immensely anti-rape and am in no way being an apologist here, just making the point that most men would never rape a girl, under any circumstances.
    Yes, I generalized with the term there. Nothing meant by it other than what you're saying.



  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The only time personal responsibility should ever be considered as a factor is when you deliberately put yourself into an explicitly bad situation.
    One could argue that "deliberately" is still a finicky thing to describe.
    While being high or drunk is certainly not "asking for it", Hynde is making the case that she thinks she was, in fact, asking for it for being drugged, drunk and hoping on some gang dude's motorcycle.

    Quote Originally Posted by The telegraph
    she said: “If I'm walking around in my underwear and I'm drunk? Who else's fault can it be? – Er, the guy who attacks you?
    “Oh, come on! That's just silly.
    “If I'm walking around and I'm very modestly dressed and I'm keeping to myself and someone attacks me, then I'd say that's his fault.
    “But if I'm being very lairy and putting it about and being provocative, then you are enticing someone who's already unhinged — don't do that.”
    She's walking that thin line. And not very graciously if I may say.

    I still think most of the "advise" (don't deliberately do stupid shit) is well spirited, but it can turn into all sorts of derp down the line. Besides, it assumes that women naturally tend towards unsafe scenarios.
    That said, I think both ends are obtuse: a) trying to teach women safe practices, and b) removing all responsibility, even when they say (as Hynde does) that they we asking for it. They both remove agency from women, they both sets us back. Perhaps we should all be taught -in sexED- what consent entails.

  8. #128
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by gypsybob View Post
    Rapists cause rape, fucktard. What I'm saying is there are ways to avoid some dangerous situations.

    You can't 'educate' people to not rape. Folk have tried to stop people from murdering, raping and stealing since the dawn of human history. It just doesn't work like that. There will always be evil people and only the extinction of our species will stop it.

    Also, I really hate the fact that it is constantly implied that men are predators to be feared and 'educated'.
    Sure, you can educate some people. Some people seem to not know how consent actually works.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Xaelai View Post
    Woman wears clothing that invites men to look at her in a sexual way.
    Woman struts her stuff to show off her body in an area that's not so safe.
    Woman gets raped.

    Sure, the guy is definitely at fault, but sometimes it takes two to make something happen. Maybe if women would dress a bit more conservatively, maybe if women wouldn't be showing off their body so much, maybe if women would watch what they're doing at parties and such, we'd see a lot less rapes.

    Do you walk down the streets of the ghettos at night wearing an armani suit, and carrying a briefcase full of cash? Of course not. That'd be inviting a mugger to rob you blind. Do you park a Lamborghini and leave the doors unlocked and the keys in the ignition in some dark parking lot at night? I would hope not.

    So why on Earth would you want to wear skimpy clothing that invites men to lust over your body and then strut your stuff at some party where someone can drug you or grab you and make off with you and take what they want?

    Doesn't matter if it is a robbery, rape, murder, there's the person who commits the crime... and then there's the person who the crime is committed against.

    If the latter invites the former by being an easy target, or an attractive target, then the latter is partially contributing to the crime. Everybody has a responsibility to act maturely and in such a way that they are protecting themselves from such crime. Sometimes crime happens anyways even if you do take all the precautionary measures, but if you do something absolutely stupid and you become the victim of a crime... then yes, you're partially to blame for it.

    "A woman shouldn't have to change her clothing because of lustful men!"

    Ok, are you also saying that a rich man shouldn't have to change out of his armani suit before walking down the streets in a ghetto at night? lol.

    Everybody is responsible for their own personal safety. This includes women and skimpy clothing. There's no reason to wear skimpy clothing other than to get men to lust after them. Is it really THAT big of a surprise when a woman who was wearing that trashy clothing gets raped? Now, obviously, if a woman was not wearing trashy clothing and still got raped... then no, she's not at fault (unless she did something else stupid, like drinking at a party or something) at all.

    You can't just disregard personal safety and expect the rest of the world to conform to you. No, you must conform to it. If personal safety means not going down the ghetto streets at night wearing rich clothing and carrying money, then yes... that means you either have to not carry the money, not wear such rich-looking clothing, or take the long way to avoid the ghetto street. If you're a woman wanting to avoid being raped, then yes... you should not be wearing skimpy clothing and perhaps you should be avoiding parties and drinking. Perhaps if the woman in question weren't wearing trashy clothing, men might have a little more respect for her, eh?
    I agree with you, what you said is logical, but you're going to get whiny feminists and SJW's that still won't agree because "hur dur victim blaming".

  10. #130
    Deleted
    Honestly I can understand the concept of taking responsibility for the exposure one puts themselves into, but it is still just wrong in my head that a person should feel that they are at fault for something that another person forcibly exposes them to, be it mental or physical harm. Not to mention the mindset that it is one's own fault, can be extremely harmful and is not part of the healing process.

    As for silencing, the article doesn't really provide anything to support that and just mentions it as truth. So it is taking it at face value, which of course is humours seeing how that is usually the thing that gets criticized until it fits oneself gentle Xarim jab
    Last edited by mmoccd6b5b3be4; 2015-09-01 at 04:31 PM.

  11. #131
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Thinking that a woman is dressed "like a whore" is precisely "clothes shaming". You didn't even finish the post without contradicting yourself.
    I didn't contradict myself, and if you had really really read it then you would have noticed that i was talking not talking of dressed woman like a whore, you are cherry picking.
    What i did say that it doesn't matter if you dress like a NUN or like a whore, you will be treated on how you are dressed. So to explain it to you like you are five, it doesn't matter on what extreme part of the clothing spectrum you care to dress, you will be judged on how you dress by everyone you meet.
    So, now lets go to the point you failed to answer and tried to deflect with this word twisting nonsense.
    Last edited by mmoc4a3002ee3c; 2015-09-01 at 04:27 PM.

  12. #132
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    64,070
    Quote Originally Posted by Xaelai View Post
    Stop implying that women don't view themselves as sexual objects when they do their best to try and get men to look at them in a sexual way, lol.
    It's the word that I put in bold that was the issue women being treated as "sexual objects". Not that women are sexual, but that they are objectified, and treated as if they exist to be used, by men.

    Women absolutely view themselves as sexual. They don't view themselves as objects, without rights or feelings or desires of their own. Which is what the phrase means.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    If you cant control yourself, the problem is you, not her. Keep your dick in your pants.
    It isn't about me, it is about those who would rape. *shrugs*

    But apparently, everybody thinks that people should be able to live their lives as dangerously as they feel like, with practically no regard for their own personal safety. But then I guess that's the Lawsuit Mentality of the USA these days. If I get dead drunk and stick a ladder up against a building, and try to climb up it backwards and fall and break my leg, I can sue the ladder company if the sticker that says "do not use this while drunk" is missing, rather than accepting that it was my own stupid fault for trying to climb it while drunk.

    The USA these days is all about blaming everybody ELSE rather than looking at things we did ourselves that contributed to the problem.

    Nobody wants to admit their own part in something. They want to point the fingers at everybody else. The girl who dresses in super-short skirt, showing off half of her breasts who gets dead drunk at a party and shoots up on drugs and ends up raped won't ever admit she did anything wrong, and how DARE anybody try to say she did anything wrong, how DARE they victim-blame when they tell her that she did very stupid things that led up to her being raped....

  14. #134
    Brewmaster Lovecrafts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    1,345
    Quote Originally Posted by Furitrix View Post
    The moment you start victim blaming, is the moment you make it much easier for rapists to actually get away with it. You can recognize that it's dumb to act in a manner that would entice people, but in the end a no means no. I also clearly said 'act', because I don't believe that dress is a valid way of enticing people. Just because a girl is wearing a tiny dress doesn't mean she is trying to entice men.
    Sorry but as soon as she willingly starts making choices to do things that will incapacitate herself from protecting herself (getting blackout drunk with strangers and shooting up drugs), then she has to shoulder some of the responsibility. Honestly think how much people would learn if they figured out that bad choices lead to horrible consequences.
    Let's make America GREAT again. Trump 2016.

    The community whined and bitched and cried, they stamped their little feet and demanded faster expansion releases. They don't get to complain now that expansions are shorter.

  15. #135
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    64,070
    Quote Originally Posted by MeHMeH View Post
    I didn't contradict myself, and if you had really really read it then you would have noticed that i was thinking of dressed woman like a whore, you are cherry picking.
    You literally just contradicted yourself, again. Saying a woman "looks like a whore" is shaming her for how she's dressed. You insisting that she does look like a whore just means that you're shaming and demeaning women without consciously knowing that you're doing so, which is a greater mark against you, because you don't even have the self-awareness (or, potentially, the recognition of women as people like yourself) to recognize it.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Furitrix View Post
    The moment you start victim blaming, is the moment you make it much easier for rapists to actually get away with it. You can recognize that it's dumb to act in a manner that would entice people, but in the end a no means no. I also clearly said 'act', because I don't believe that dress is a valid way of enticing people. Just because a girl is wearing a tiny dress doesn't mean she is trying to entice men.
    Praytell why ELSE she'd be wearing skimpy clothing?

    I can't think of a single practical use for wearing skimpy clothing other than trying to look sexually pleasing to men. Unless she's Bi or lesbian or something and trying to look nice to other girls, but still. Is there really a need to be walking around in public dressed like that?

  17. #137
    Moderator Crissi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    The Moon
    Posts
    31,187
    Quote Originally Posted by Xaelai View Post
    It isn't about me, it is about those who would rape. *shrugs*

    But apparently, everybody thinks that people should be able to live their lives as dangerously as they feel like, with practically no regard for their own personal safety. But then I guess that's the Lawsuit Mentality of the USA these days. If I get dead drunk and stick a ladder up against a building, and try to climb up it backwards and fall and break my leg, I can sue the ladder company if the sticker that says "do not use this while drunk" is missing, rather than accepting that it was my own stupid fault for trying to climb it while drunk.

    The USA these days is all about blaming everybody ELSE rather than looking at things we did ourselves that contributed to the problem.

    Nobody wants to admit their own part in something. They want to point the fingers at everybody else. The girl who dresses in super-short skirt, showing off half of her breasts who gets dead drunk at a party and shoots up on drugs and ends up raped won't ever admit she did anything wrong, and how DARE anybody try to say she did anything wrong, how DARE they victim-blame when they tell her that she did very stupid things that led up to her being raped....
    Women dress up for mroe reasons than to impress men however, so blaming them for teasing men with their dress is just showing you dont know how women mind's work half the time. Dressing up is fun and a self esteem booster a lot of the time.

  18. #138
    Deleted
    Common endus, still haven't heard from you how clothing is not a form of expressing your self, and how this expression of self isn't a form of communicating.

  19. #139
    Moderator Crissi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    The Moon
    Posts
    31,187
    Quote Originally Posted by Xaelai View Post
    Praytell why ELSE she'd be wearing skimpy clothing?

    I can't think of a single practical use for wearing skimpy clothing other than trying to look sexually pleasing to men. Unless she's Bi or lesbian or something and trying to look nice to other girls, but still. Is there really a need to be walking around in public dressed like that?
    Self esteem is a lot of it. We want to look good and dress certain ways because it makes us feel good.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    So tis all or nothing? Why does a woman deserve what she gets for looking pretty? If a girl dresses to impress, that doesnt mean impress everyone. Only the people that matter (typically friends and men that she likes). Men that arent her tastes dont have carte blanche to do what they want just cause of dress.
    That line of thought is thinking the world is a safe place.... sadly its not

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •