"Chrissie Hynde was right about rape. Now feminists want to silence her"

[The Yeti]

It's too bad we can't say what he is, after all then we get infracted.

Seriously, that opinion is just so disgusting and flawed.

[Crissi]

Where the hell do you come off in calling it "cloth shaming"!? I'm not shaming cloths, but you seem to be saying that the way you cloth your self is not an for of expressing your self, and in the same breath you say that "they want to feel pretty". That is delusional, if you express yourself in a certain way then you will get responses that will correlate with how you express yourself. It doesn't matter if you cloth yourself as a nun or as a whore, you get treated like you are dressed. And no, this is not sexist, it is exactly the same for men.

So tis all or nothing? Why does a woman deserve what she gets for looking pretty? If a girl dresses to impress, that doesnt mean impress everyone. Only the people that matter (typically friends and men that she likes). Men that arent her tastes dont have carte blanche to do what they want just cause of dress.

[Thage]

So if a women wants to dress in a way that makes them happy, makes them feel pretty, they should just accept that men will go after them and force themselves upon them in a sexual way?

That's a pretty monstrous point of view.

I would say sociopathic and laughably evident of a basement-dweller lifestyle, but apparently that's a no-no hereabouts, so yeah. Monstrous sounds pretty good.

[The Yeti]

Its said that people are oblivious to the fact that how you dress is a form of self expression.

So is expressing yourself meaning that you are inviting rape?

That's basically what you are saying.

If a person wants to feel attractive, they invite themselves to be raped?

[Endus]

Where the hell do you come off in calling it "cloth shaming"!? I'm not shaming cloths, but you seem to be saying that the way you cloth your self is not an for of expressing your self, and in the same breath you say that "they want to feel pretty". That is delusional, if you express yourself in a certain way then you will get responses that will correlate with how you express yourself. It doesn't matter if you cloth yourself as a nun or as a whore, you get treated like you are dressed. And no, this is not sexist, it is exactly the same for men.

Thinking that a woman is dressed "like a whore" is precisely "clothes shaming". You didn't even finish the post without contradicting yourself.

[Lovecrafts]

There is nothing you do that contributed to being raped.

You're right, how DARE that the ones who go to parties alone, in provocative clothing and choose to drink themselves into a stupor and shoot up drugs get blamed for their actions!! It's like common sense went out the window.

You can easily take precautions to lower your chances of being a victim. TAKE THEM.

[The Yeti]

Well go on then, let's hear your solution.

Stop implying that women are part of the cause of rapes and instead focus on what can be done to educate men to get their shit together and stop viewing women as purely sexual objects?

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You're right, how DARE that the ones who go to parties alone, in provocative clothing and choose to drink themselves into a stupor and shoot up drugs get blamed for their actions!! It's like common sense went out the window.

You can easily take precautions to lower your chances of being a victim. TAKE THEM.

And when the drugged person says "No." to sex, does that mean that it's still the victim's fault?

[Xaelai]

There is nothing you do that contributed to being raped.

That's like saying "there is nothing you do that contributes to being mugged".

Woman steps outside in alluring clothing that shows off half of her body and gets men to drool over her, and then gets raped... uh, yes, she contributed to the rape. Maybe if she hadn't been doing her best to try and get men to look at her and sexually desire her, then maybe she wouldn't have contributed a rapist being pushed over the edge?

Just like the rich guy walking down a ghetto street at night example contributed to the mugging by flaunting his wealth in the poor part of town with no protection or common sense.

[Lovecrafts]

Thinking that a woman is dressed "like a whore" is precisely "clothes shaming". You didn't even finish the post without contradicting yourself.

Thinking a woman is dressed like a whore is just calling it as I see it. Our side is entitled to our opinions and views just as much as your agenda is.

[Deleted]

So if a women wants to dress in a way that makes them happy, makes them feel pretty, they should just accept that men will go after them and force themselves upon them in a sexual way?

That's a pretty monstrous point of view.

And it is all your view, i never said anything like it. Its cute to try and twist words but this is really beginning to get stupid. I don't know where you live, but attention just isn't the same as raping. Must be a weird place you live.

[Xaelai]

Stop implying that women are part of the cause of rapes and instead focus on what can be done to educate men to get their shit together and stop viewing women as purely sexual objects?

Stop implying that women don't view themselves as sexual objects when they do their best to try and get men to look at them in a sexual way, lol.

[Deleted]

In a much smaller scale, you can see this on Twitch too. Girls with a cleavage not even a stripper would dare to show, going on a rant against people that point it out on chat or make a comment about "bewbs" or whatever... If you want to show us how good you are at a game, just wear a turtle neck and show us our skills...

[Crissi]

That's like saying "there is nothing you do that contributes to being mugged".

Woman steps outside in alluring clothing that shows off half of her body and gets men to drool over her, and then gets raped... uh, yes, she contributed to the rape. Maybe if she hadn't been doing her best to try and get men to look at her and sexually desire her, then maybe she wouldn't have contributed a rapist being pushed over the edge?

Just like the rich guy walking down a ghetto street at night example contributed to the mugging by flaunting his wealth in the poor part of town with no protection or common sense.

If you cant control yourself, the problem is you, not her. Keep your dick in your pants.

[Lovecrafts]

Stop implying that women are part of the cause of rapes and instead focus on what can be done to educate men to get their shit together and stop viewing women as purely sexual objects?

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And when the drugged person says "No." to sex, does that mean that it's still the victim's fault?

If the victim put themselves in that situation by choosing to take drugs, then yes it's partially their fault. You assume that pointing out what the victim did wrong somehow lessens the severity of the crime. It doesn't, the criminal still should get the same punishment, but by pointing out what the victim could have done to protect herself, maybe...just MAYBE some other people will learn and wont put themselves in the same situation in the future.

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So drinking, doing drugs or going to parties alone is now punishable by rape?

Doing the above things can be a contributing factor to getting raped. Use your brain and don't put yourself willingly into those situations.

[Endus]

Stop implying that women are part of the cause of rapes and instead focus on what can be done to educate men to get their shit together and stop viewing women as purely sexual objects?

Can we please stop blaming "men"? The problem is the minority of men who are rapists. Most of us don't rape, for the same reason we don't murder; because we're not sick in the head.

You don't need to "educate men" about rape. The problem is that a small percentage of men are misogynistic dickbags who don't give two shits about women and will freely abuse them to get their rocks off. And education won't help that, not really; they'll dismiss the root principle, that women are their equals and should be respected as such.

Hopefully my invective against rapists prior to this post makes it clear that I'm immensely anti-rape and am in no way being an apologist here, just making the point that most men would never rape a girl, under any circumstances.

[The Yeti]

Stop implying that women don't view themselves as sexual objects when they do their best to try and get men to look at them in a sexual way, lol.

Ah, yes, blaming the woman again for trying to look "pretty" and act "sexy". A woman dances close to a man wearing sexy clothes, must mean they want to get raped.

[Rend Blackhand]

Stop implying that women are part of the cause of rapes and instead focus on what can be done to educate men to get their shit together and stop viewing women as purely sexual objects?

Rapists cause rape, fucktard. What I'm saying is there are ways to avoid some dangerous situations.

You can't 'educate' people to not rape. Folk have tried to stop people from murdering, raping and stealing since the dawn of human history. It just doesn't work like that. There will always be evil people and only the extinction of our species will stop it.

Also, I really hate the fact that it is constantly implied that men are predators to be feared and 'educated'.

[The Yeti]

Can we please stop blaming "men"? The problem is the minority of men who are rapists. Most of us don't rape, for the same reason we don't murder; because we're not sick in the head.

You don't need to "educate men" about rape. The problem is that a small percentage of men are misogynistic dickbags who don't give two shits about women and will freely abuse them to get their rocks off. And education won't help that, not really; they'll dismiss the root principle, that women are their equals and should be respected as such.

Hopefully my invective against rapists prior to this post makes it clear that I'm immensely anti-rape and am in no way being an apologist here, just making the point that most men would never rape a girl, under any circumstances.

Yes, I generalized with the term there. Nothing meant by it other than what you're saying.

[nextormento]

The only time personal responsibility should ever be considered as a factor is when you deliberately put yourself into an explicitly bad situation.

One could argue that "deliberately" is still a finicky thing to describe.
While being high or drunk is certainly not "asking for it", Hynde is making the case that she thinks she was, in fact, asking for it for being drugged, drunk and hoping on some gang dude's motorcycle.

she said: “If I'm walking around in my underwear and I'm drunk? Who else's fault can it be? – Er, the guy who attacks you?
“Oh, come on! That's just silly.
“If I'm walking around and I'm very modestly dressed and I'm keeping to myself and someone attacks me, then I'd say that's his fault.
“But if I'm being very lairy and putting it about and being provocative, then you are enticing someone who's already unhinged — don't do that.”

She's walking that thin line. And not very graciously if I may say.

I still think most of the "advise" (don't deliberately do stupid shit) is well spirited, but it can turn into all sorts of derp down the line. Besides, it assumes that women naturally tend towards unsafe scenarios.
That said, I think both ends are obtuse: a) trying to teach women safe practices, and b) removing all responsibility, even when they say (as Hynde does) that they we asking for it. They both remove agency from women, they both sets us back. Perhaps we should all be taught -in sexED- what consent entails.

[Deleted]

Rapists cause rape, fucktard. What I'm saying is there are ways to avoid some dangerous situations.

You can't 'educate' people to not rape. Folk have tried to stop people from murdering, raping and stealing since the dawn of human history. It just doesn't work like that. There will always be evil people and only the extinction of our species will stop it.

Also, I really hate the fact that it is constantly implied that men are predators to be feared and 'educated'.

Sure, you can educate some people. Some people seem to not know how consent actually works.