The legion announcement + content drought is killing my raiding guild

[Fayenoor]

Yes. The main function of Mythic mode for most players is to act as a reminder that, compared to that 1%, they suck.

I am going to use that as a quote in my wow forums

[Hotsforyou]

Our guild broke up last night because of this. Called it quits at 5/13M. Player churn and doing the same content over 4 difficulties is just too much. Wears out too fast. Crappy part is i play a tank and it will be near impossible to find another guild that raids the hours i need at a similar progression. Damn.

[Tennis]

The game is terrible right now. Why not unsubscribe is the question.

[Thetruth1400]

There is simply no reward in staying around to kill bosses you already killed in another difficulty setting. And when you understand that raiding the same content in multiple settings is no longer fun, then there is simply nothing else that WOD offers to keep you going.

I agree 100%. I wish Blizzard wasn't so blind as to think that "More difficulty toggle switches means more content!" It doesn't, simple as that. They need to go back to the way things used to be; one or two difficulties, and even the entry level is hard. LFR needs to be scrapped, and people need to go back to having a carrot to chase. Blizzard just doesn't have that carrot on a stick anymore, they just hand the carrot to the player and tell them, "Put this carrot as far away from you as you feel you want it to be."

It isn't interesting, it isn't a challenge, and it isn't rewarding at the end of the day. We don't need these super easy modes for the people that don't care to even try. We don't need these super hard modes that only 1% of the population will see. We need content that is going to be challenging, content that we're going to actually last, less catch up mechanics, and less hand holding. We want to feel rewarded when we accomplish something, not "Eh, I'd already done that on three other modes before I got here."

On top of that, we need more to do outside of raids that is another track to enjoyment. It doesn't have to mean high end epic gear, but something unique to those people that choose that path instead to get to show off that "Hey, I might not be a high end raider, but I am a high end dungeon adventurer that put in the time and effort to get this unique item set / mount / pet / whatever!"


As for the OP, I'm not surprised it didn't happen sooner. WoD is a massive failure outside of raiding, and frankly, with Legion knocking on the door, once you've finished it once, there's absolutely no reason to keep going back. Legion is going to come out soonish which is just going to make every single piece of gear obtained from WoD obsolete. Sure, a mythic level raider might have an easier time in Legion in the level up process, but by the first dungeon, let alone raid, that gear is gone. There's absolutely no reason to keep paying Blizzard when in a few short months, you're going to have to essentially start over anyway.

[PrairieChicken]

Or, as it was during SoO

People fuck you with a lockout or leave after the first boss, requiring you to find more people to continue. Heroic then, mythic now, has NEVER been intended to be puggable, despite how many nerfs they provide. If you want that content, simply invest the time to raiding with a guild, time that's probably less than you spend pugging.

People pugged mythic (heroic in the past) all the time

[lazorexplosion]

LMAO at people complaining about having to do it on four difficulty modes.

Any half-way decent or half-dedicated raider can be through normal before LFR even finishes releasing, or at least so far through that going back to LFR would be pointless.

If you have don't have your shit together enough to avoid clicking the LFR button (and it's seriously easy as fuck to avoid LFR), maybe you should just stop lying to yourself: you aren't a dedicated raider any more, and that's the reason you're burning out on/not motivated to do higher raiding, not the fact that there's multiple difficulties.

[Vivica]

and why is it sad exackly ? he did clear the whole instance and is done with game - 95 % of wow playerbase never given a single f.... about anything above lowest difficulty lv and never will - its nice that you enjoy you hardmodes but stop puting people in the same box as you - most players do not enjoy hardmode and if game is unable to provide them enough content on easy mode to keep them interested its failed game simple as that.

I made a point of adding that if people have no interest then of course it makes no sense to pursue a higher level of difficultly of the same raid. But there are a lot of people saying there is no hope at all for WoW from now until Legion, but there is if you want there to be. The original post and topic is about a person trying to get a group together to give things like Mythic raiding a shot, so that alone is inclusive of those who want to try out another difficulty of the same raid. When someone comes in here and says well I have no fun because it's end of xpac and there is never anything to do, then as much as that is entirely true, we are talking about raiding, and the struggle of guilds who want to keep doing these extra levels of difficulty in a dying community.

The way I look at it is this. "Normal" is the way the game was designed to be played. LFR/Story Modes/etc are for people who basically just want a movie and want to explore and see the lore. Hard/Mythic/Insane/etc are modes for people who just want to play for the challenge.

Yep, there is nothing that playing at any higher level than LFR/Normal that adds to any of the things you mentioned, but if people choose to take on that experience only then it feels contradictory to say that there is "nothing else" or "no content" left in the game. What is sad to me is how negative people get about what is completely inevitable come this time of expansion. I don't necessarily agree that it's right that come the last 12 months of xpac, we all sit around twiddling our thumbs while the player base dies off, especially not in the case of WoD where there has been sweet all nothing to do unless you want to raid. But this post was specific to raiding and how hard it's been to keep a Heroic into Mythic guild going.

It comes down to awful design of the way PvE works now, but I don't think that if people had to really chew into all the content to catch up, or if we couldn't skip half the bosses (which is dumb in itself), it would keep the people that are ok with seeing it on lfr only engaged for any longer than it does now.

[Unir]

LMAO at people complaining about having to do it on four difficulty modes.

Any half-way decent or half-dedicated raider can be through normal before LFR even finishes releasing, or at least so far through that going back to LFR would be pointless.

If you have don't have your shit together enough to avoid clicking the LFR button (and it's seriously easy as fuck to avoid LFR), maybe you should just stop lying to yourself: you aren't a dedicated raider any more, and that's the reason you're burning out on/not motivated to do higher raiding, not the fact that there's multiple difficulties.

This, a thousand times this. I am so sick to death of reading all the game sucks, blah blah, raiding different difficulties sucks blah blah crap on the forums I can barely stand to look at any of them.

Any guild halfway decent at raiding didn't bother with normal to begin with, banging its head right into heroic instead - and of course, the encounters are quite a bit different and more challenging on mythic. If you call yourself a raider and you're stupid enough to go into LFR for "content," well that's on you.

If you're not a dedicated raider type, I can see a viewpoint for some of the criticism about content - but for fuck's sake people need to stop saying "I'm a raider and the raid meta is all the game is for me" - and then unsubbing and bitching about things a raider should enjoy and want to do anyway. I'm enjoying working my way through Mythic HFC bosses now, and no, they are not the same as heroic bosses. That's just dumb imo.

[FertsBlert]

Has killed my guild there are maybe 4 people left that log in regularly, the GM is now an alt of one of the core raiders who is raiding in another guild and most of the people I liked raiding with have outright quit. I doubt this guild will be capable of raiding even when Legion arrives just too many core people gone so I'm looking elsewhere it's slightly annoying as when I joined this guild I was looking for somewhere to be for the long haul.

Basically WoD was bad enough that it killed my guild and unless I can find another enjoyable guild to be in, my motivation to even bother to continue playing is gone.

[Ergar]

Will probably end up quitting raiding until legion myself soon enough. I've already killed archimonde, and i have the legendary questline completed so there isn't really a reason to keep going since i cba to raid hfc on mythic. Feels weird to already be tired of HFC when i managed to raid SoO for 9+ months without getting as bored as i am currently.

[Spriestlawl]

Yep, I agree with this. Ulduar was beautiful because how you did the fight changed the difficulty in very specific ways; it wasn't just "flip switch, boss has more health and hits harder."

... uhhh lolwut? In fact that's exactly what it was.. In fact, there was a boss where you literally pushed a button to start the "hard mode".

Multiple difficulties have to exist. I'm not calling LFR/Normal plebs or anything but I definitely wouldn't play the game if it was normal only. If it was heroic only that'd be too punishing to others. Mythic only would be disastrous. Having the 4 is actually useful. Besides.. NO ONE runs 4 difficulties as part of progression. If your guild is anywhere significant in mythic I'd be surprised if you did more than the final two bosses in heroic in fact.

People are complaining about more difficulties and 'content drought' but the fact is ... less than 100 guilds worldwide have even managed to kill the "End boss" on the "hardest difficulty". The top end raiders all say that this is the best raid content in a very long time, through and through. And the truth is.. they're right. I'm currently 10/13M and it's easily the best content I've seen in a very long time.

I get that mythic isn't for everyone. I get that normal is too easy and some people can't commit to a heroic/mythic guild. But to say that there is a content drought is just trolling at this point. There's a ton of shit to do, people are choosing not to do it. There's a ton of things I still need to do to round out this expansion but I just really don't have time, and most of what's left is somewhat grindy. I don't fault it for being grindy.. wow has always had grindy aspects. Hell the entire leveling process in vanilla was an excercise in grindy. I grinded the same spawn of spiders from 35-45 (roughly 6 days of killing). Honestly, I feel people who say there's "nothing to do in the game" are about the same as "blizz store ruined the game" .. it's simply untrue.

[Deleted]

Our guild broke up last night because of this. Called it quits at 5/13M.

I know that feel. If at this point of a tier you've only done less than half of a raid in mythic it means the guild is struggling. That kind of guild will never complete the raid in time (unless the nerfbat comes for the last month).

It's the subconscious realization that Mythic Archimonde will never be done on time that ruins it.

It's one of the reasons I don't mind not raiding in a team anymore.

[kamuimac]

I get that mythic isn't for everyone. I get that normal is too easy and some people can't commit to a heroic/mythic guild. But to say that there is a content drought is just trolling at this point. There's a ton of shit to do, people are choosing not to do it. There's a ton of things I still need to do to round out this expansion but I just really don't have time, and most of what's left is somewhat grindy. I don't fault it for being grindy.. wow has always had grindy aspects. Hell the entire leveling process in vanilla was an excercise in grindy. I grinded the same spawn of spiders from 35-45 (roughly 6 days of killing). Honestly, I feel people who say there's "nothing to do in the game" are about the same as "blizz store ruined the game" .. it's simply untrue.

and what is this stuff that you claim that is out there ? because as someone with 715 itlv toon which cleared raid on hc and dont want to do mythic since i hate 20 man i have absolutely 0 content to do which would offer me any sort of char progress - and char progress is crucial to mmorpg - if you dont have it game is non existent - i dare you to show me that content which is in game for me. maybe i should farm hfc hc for months for wf/sockets ? or pug all my alts through normal ? only nobody gonna invite them unless i blow 200k on crafted stuff/boes beause every moron around wants now 710 itlv dps for instance droping 700 itlv gear and i have 0 ways to progress past 695 itlv outside of normal hfc bcause blizzard for whatever reason is out there cut of decent gear which was obtainable from world bosses/vp - this expansion is othing but a joke.

[Last Starfighter]

Yeah, people are dropping like flies. It bums me out that most of the serious raiders in my guild have quit for the rest of the expansion. There's no hope of me finding a CM group at this point at all.

Dude, go to Open Raid. You can EASILY find a good CM group. Or, just do a CM a month. You'll have time.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes. The main function of Mythic mode for most players is to act as a reminder that, compared to that 1%, they suck.

This is excellent and engaging game design that is sure to retain customers.

If you look at mythic mode and think "I suck", then you have self esteem issues. Blizz doesn't create a different raid for mythic.

The function of Mythic is to provide an extremely difficult setting for people that want it. 95% of wow is extremely accessible. So having some difficult things in the 5% doesn't equal blizz saying "Lawlz, fuck you guiz, we only care about mithyx raiderz yo".

You have an agenda that has more to do with people than anything about the game.

[infernity]

Our raid team has just taken a break too.

Although we were sat in previous tiers for this long, we had 10 man teams, which were a lot easier to maintain. With the amount of people quitting all over the place, the competition for anywhere near decent raiders is fucking fierce. You're left with bringing in people who have lower ilvl than you, because once you have 13/13hc, it's easy to find a good guild with space. And so, for the average raid team, your officers are just constantly recruiting, which becomes draining. And when you do get new people, you have to go gear them, or you hold out and wait for people whose ilvl is near the rest of your raid team? And leave your team farming hc, rather than getting onto mythic...

Add on to that how awkward it is to play an alt at a reasonable level, because of the gating for content behind garrisons and shipyards

Add on to that how we spend our time alone in the garrison, not interacting with people.

Add on to that how we nothing to do to progress our mains on outside of raids, and with the ilvl changes, outside of the later bosses, whereas in previous expansions, we had upgrades, so had to do dungeons to farm valor there were just things.

[Glorious Leader]

.

You have an agenda that has more to do with people than anything about the game.

I've been accused of this numerous times as well and I find it fascinating. It seems to be a a very paltry attempt to defend against criticism of structural weaknesses within the game but it's never illustrated fully. What agenda do you perceive people have?

[Osmeric]

I've been accused of this numerous times as well and I find it fascinating. It seems to be a a very paltry attempt to defend against criticism of structural weaknesses within the game but it's never illustrated fully. What agenda do you perceive people have?

Yeah, it's a pretty classic ad hominem argument.

[Fayenoor]

Our raid team has just taken a break too.

Although we were sat in previous tiers for this long, we had 10 man teams, which were a lot easier to maintain. With the amount of people quitting all over the place, the competition for anywhere near decent raiders is fucking fierce. You're left with bringing in people who have lower ilvl than you, because once you have 13/13hc, it's easy to find a good guild with space. And so, for the average raid team, your officers are just constantly recruiting, which becomes draining. And when you do get new people, you have to go gear them, or you hold out and wait for people whose ilvl is near the rest of your raid team? And leave your team farming hc, rather than getting onto mythic...

This is not new to the expac and has been existent since Vanilla. Guilds working on Naxx-40 spent a lot of time running apps and new recruits through AQ40 and BWL to get them gear over and over to the point of collapse.

Add on to that how awkward it is to play an alt at a reasonable level, because of the gating for content behind garrisons and shipyards

Depends really on the person/player. I know plenty of raiders with 3+ toons with completed(735) rings and 700+ ilevel.

It is more of a problem for returning players. The ring quest literally kills any interest in new players. I have had several ex-WoW players contact me about coming back to the game after 2-3+ years hiatus. They are interested in Legion and want to try WoW out again. But then they read about ring quest and how it is needed for joining any meaningful Mythic raiding guild. And same reaction-- "Well, I will wait for 7.0 and Legion when ring won't matter any more".

Add on to that how we spend our time alone in the garrison, not interacting with people.

Yes, this is a major problem for this expac. We spent our whole WOD in house arrest in our own Garrison.

Add on to that how we nothing to do to progress our mains on outside of raids, and with the ilvl changes, outside of the later bosses, whereas in previous expansions, we had upgrades, so had to do dungeons to farm valor there were just things.

Yep. Wow is now a lobby game. Not an MMO. You sit in your lobby (garrison), wait for queue to pop (or get summoned to an instance), kill X,Y,Z bosses and go back to your lobby and log off. Except it's worse. Unlike in other lobby games, you are all alone in your Garrison.

[Sanguinesun]

Right now its a perfect storm of guild break ups and raid parking. One is the traditional seasonal change going into the fall when folks go back to school. Then adding all these other factors even Method now has become a victim of things.

Blizzard devs have admitted that they pretty much develop the game in an epistemic bubble. This more than anything is what currently grooms the results we're seeing with the game and the players.

[Youn]

Yeah, we're probably getting to that point right now. Tuesday we had 20 raiders and 2 friend rank online, we did all of heroic.. Wednesday was 20 raiders we did first 3 bosses on mythic. Thursday, we had 19 raiders online, we sat about for a half hour and called it for the night. Yeah, 6 hours of raiding for week!

Recruitment is terrible right now, because no one has any desire to switch to anything but a high population server.