LF Mythic Hellfire High Council/Kilrogg Arms Trinket/Talent Advice

[ORCSMASH]

I have gotten ridiculously lucky with trinkets this tier, but it's made it very difficult for me to figure out which ones to use for Arms in what situation. I'm hoping someone here will be able to shed some light on this for me, as I've just recently switched back and I'm not sure of the intricacies of the interplay between these trinkets and the Arms set bonuses.

These are the trinkets I have access to (some I have just for CMs, but I'm listing them all just in case):

--Heroic
Unending Hunter
Empty Drinking Horn
Worldbreaker's Resolve
Discordant Chorus

--Mythic (Tier 17)
Forgemaster's Insignia
Horn of Screaming Spirits

--Crafted
Skull of War (715)

Also, for Kilrogg, I am being assigned as the melee spot on the third Visions of Death specifically for the Execute phase. Should I take Bladestorm for the adds in the Eye or just cleave them down?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[apoe]

Worldbreaker and unending hunger.

Don't take bladestorm as arms. Bloodbath + ravager. Use the ravager in the vision on the largest add wave towards the end, and hope the other dps has good AOE.

[Michh]

If it's Kilrogg progression for your group you'll do ok in the 3rd group. I normally came up with about 20% left on the boss. Now, he dies before I ever come up.

Trinkets for Arms are Hunger and Resolve. Bloodbath and Ravager Should be your best bet to build stacks I believe. I play fury and have never tried arms on this fight though. If the tanks don't drag the add out too early, I'm sure arms cleave would be really good.

[fuguki]

Consider going Bladestorm on Kilrogg if you need more AoE inside. Also Shockwave instead of Dragon Roar.(I personally use bladestorm when we have around 10 stacks, before that just rend things up and spam MS/Execute(don't bother whirlwinding since you just wanna single target until you get reasonable amount of stacks)).

[ORCSMASH]

Thanks for all the help, folks, I really appreciate it. Just one follow up: the trinkets - should I be using those two trinkets for every fight I play as Arms?

[apoe]

Thanks for all the help, folks, I really appreciate it. Just one follow up: the trinkets - should I be using those two trinkets for every fight I play as Arms?

Yes. Mythic pebble can be better than heroic unending hunger in certain situations though. For example on gorefiend, often times you will not be able to build the 20 stacks of unending hunger while running between adds etc. and the proc gets mostly wasted.

[Digatron]

Class trinket / Unending hunter like the rest of the people say

[Moonsorrow-GH]

Worldbreaker and unending hunger.

Don't take bladestorm as arms. Bloodbath + ravager. Use the ravager in the vision on the largest add wave towards the end, and hope the other dps has good AOE.

Actually avatar has some value, the difference between bloodbath and avatar is small even as arms. Take for example Archimonde. When using bloodbath you won't get the full value out of it especially when you are using cooldowns at times when you need damage i.e Doomfire and Infernals, especially now when gear is so high and power creep of the ring you just do not get enough bloodbath ticks before the damn thing dies, whereas avatar is increased damage instantly.

Also ravager isn't really that good especially when you have multiple targets with rend up, when you use it it means you are probably taking that global over a mortal strike proc, colossus smash proc and execute. If you're going to be using ravager which I wouldn't use on any fight (This debate is subject to kill times and what anger management will give you for your executes and getting CDs back for critical moments like prio targets/execute phase). On most fights that you play arms on, using AM will be a big increase, and on few it will be a very very small increase in using ravager.

As for trinkets, Unending Hunger and Worldbreaker's is BiS. Empty Drinking Horn is pretty garbage for arms and the Discordant Chorus is not much better so just go with the two BiS ones, Unending Hunger is proabably better than the latter two mythic ones unless the stars aline for you and you get socket and warforged, and even then I don't even know.

As for Kilrogg, it depends who you have with you class wise, there should be someone there who can carry you a bit, rogue, warlock etc. You will want to kill one at a time, try and keep rend up on 3 targets and I would say you'll want bladestorm unless you're being carried in there by a good AOE class, that said, it's probably better for you to take bladestorm and get out quicker rather than take bloodbath because if you're coming out for execute then the boss is going to die either way so it might just be overkill and that would be you getting out sooner, especially with a warlock they can easily just snipe off remaining adds while you execute the bosses face off!

Sometimes it's difficult to make the call on what talents to use, a lot of people just use theory when in actual fact experience and knowledge of the fight will bring you to come to a more beneficial conclusion to your raid rather than just your DPS. I got criticised by someone on this forum who is meant to have a good reputation when I used furious strikes on Mannoroth mythic (He hadn't done the fight yet) and to some extent using it on Xhul progress. The reason was to guarentee having reckstorm for every single add spawn, which back when I progressed on it it was a necessity for these adds to fall instantly. In theory, this may not be the best way for your personal DPS but it is definitely better for the raid, especially when that is what you are assigned to.

Anyway, this is irrelevent now after the buffs to the tier and you will have reckstorm up for all the imps on Mannoroth, so enough waffling and good luck with your progress.

[Soiy]

Actually avatar has some value, the difference between bloodbath and avatar is small even as arms. Take for example Archimonde. When using bloodbath you won't get the full value out of it especially when you are using cooldowns at times when you need damage i.e Doomfire and Infernals, especially now when gear is so high and power creep of the ring you just do not get enough bloodbath ticks before the damn thing dies, whereas avatar is increased damage instantly..

IMO Avatar vs. Bloodbath as arms depends on 2 things: Your ring uses and whether or not you can get execute damage during a majority of your Avatars. It's something that's really dependent on kill times and general timings of fights for your guild. For example it can be strong on Tyrant depending on the timing of your adds dying; if they are focused and die before your Avatar comes up for execute then bloodbath will be stronger, but if you can Avatar and have it up during their last 20% then it will outperform Bloodbath. The biggest perk to Avatar is it's synergism with the legendary ring during execute. If you can get even 1 ring on a fight with Avatar+Recklessness in execute phase the damage boost is HUGE. Bloodbaths strength is it's low CD, its relatively safe to use on CD while Avatar is really only good when paired with execute damage imo. For most people the safest and most consistent option will be Bloodbath, but if you're familiar with your guilds kill times and how each fight comes together then Avatar is pretty fun to try (HUGE NUMBERS) and can be slightly better if used correctly.

[Moonsorrow-GH]

IMO Avatar vs. Bloodbath as arms depends on 2 things: Your ring uses and whether or not you can get execute damage during a majority of your Avatars. It's something that's really dependent on kill times and general timings of fights for your guild. For example it can be strong on Tyrant depending on the timing of your adds dying; if they are focused and die before your Avatar comes up for execute then bloodbath will be stronger, but if you can Avatar and have it up during their last 20% then it will outperform Bloodbath. The biggest perk to Avatar is it's synergism with the legendary ring during execute. If you can get even 1 ring on a fight with Avatar+Recklessness in execute phase the damage boost is HUGE. Bloodbaths strength is it's low CD, its relatively safe to use on CD while Avatar is really only good when paired with execute damage imo. For most people the safest and most consistent option will be Bloodbath, but if you're familiar with your guilds kill times and how each fight comes together then Avatar is pretty fun to try (HUGE NUMBERS) and can be slightly better if used correctly.

Yeah I find myself just using Avatar whenever I play arms now, for the simple reason adds just melt in seconds. Especially for opening burst as well, if you get good mortal strike procs on the pull as well as a class trinket proc then you are golden. I did an Archimonde pug the other day too and I decided to use the crit trinket and Flamebender one just for execute fun. The stars then alligned, ring procced at 20% and the bosses HP went absolutely splat, but sadly the entire raid switched infernals when we were on 6% but seriously though yeah, people who are wondering which talent to use just need to read through their own guild logs and work out kill times and how long adds are surviving for.