View Poll Results: Is taking advantage of someone drunk Rape?

Voters
584. This poll is closed
  • Yes

    294 50.34%
  • No

    290 49.66%
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  1. #41
    I am Murloc! Phookah's Avatar
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    Technically and legally, no.
    But its pretty immoral to get someone drunk with the intent of "They might want to fuck me if they get drunk enough".

  2. #42
    If you were completely sober and screwed a drunk chick that would be wrong. If you were both completely drunk that happens all the time after bars close all over the country.

  3. #43
    As far as I know, this is a bit of a legal grey area and it varies based on the state.

  4. #44
    If you take advantage of someone you know or suspect to have impaired decisions, then that is you refusing to give them a fair choice in the matter, so yes that is in my view rape when the answer would have been no otherwise.
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by buck008 View Post
    As far as I know, this is a bit of a legal grey area and it varies based on the state.
    yes there seams to be a lot of grey area. I've looked at some state laws and college campus policies and rulings and there isn't any consensus of when some one gets intoxicated enough to lose the capacity to give valid consent for sex

  6. #46
    The Lightbringer
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    It's not rape and it's not even a bad thing. If they are passed out drunk then yes, it is absolutely both rape and bad but simply drunk? No. You're able to make your own decisions and if you get drunk and get fucked by someone ugly or gross or clingy then it's your own fault.
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  7. #47
    Hasn't this been discussed before?

  8. #48
    Scarab Lord bergmann620's Avatar
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    I clicked yes, base on the phrasing.

    Here's my full position:

    Are you 'taking advantage of them'? Are you intentionally leveraging their inebriated state for sex? Because, if that's a yes, it's pretty much the same thing as drugging them for sex.

    If you're drunk and they're drunk, or it's sex that wouldn't be questioned if they were sober, it's completely different.

    To me, it really comes down to intent. Are you intending to do something that the other person would consider a violation of their trust? If yes, then, yea, rape.
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  9. #49
    The fact that this is even a question shows how far down the sewer our culture is.

  10. #50
    Are both parties drunk?

    Then it sounds like you have two rapists.
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  11. #51
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    It's too situational to have a general rule. Do I think it's incredibly reckless and stupid? Yes.
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  12. #52
    Scarab Lord bergmann620's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    Major, major difference here - "drugging them for sex" usually means it is without their knowledge. Much different from them getting drunk themselves... if they consciously put themselves in a state where they make decisions they wouldn't make when they were sober (even if the guy is the one giving them the drinks) - yeah there's a good chance the guy is an asshole, but again I don't think it warrants ruining the guy's life.
    So... If the girl you want to have sex with is wasted, but still vaguely coherent... If 'taking advantage of her' (aka get some when you know you'd have no chance normally) is OK, Is it also OK to take all the money out of her wallet? She normally wouldn't just you have $200, but hey... She didn't say not to.

    It's basically fraud, but fraud that results in rape.
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  13. #53
    As someone who has grown to fucking hate the excuse "I was drunk" to dismiss their actions. I would say No. If you can't control yourself when you get drunk, then don't get drunk, if you continue to get drunk anyways, then you condone your actions have no excuse for them as you refused to take the steps to prevent them and actively encouraged repeating them.

    If you do get drunk, whatever you do or consent to while you are drunk, you still did or consented to. Whether you regret your actions after the fact is beside the point.

    Personally, I do not drink, smoke or do any of that stuff and I will not go for a girl who isn't in their right head at the time, either they can go for sober or they aren't getting me either way. I refuse to deal with a girl smelling of that crap. Hate the taste, hate the smell, and hate the way people act on it.

    But to the guys who go for the drunk girls (Whether they are getting drunk themselves), if the girls consented, they consented. Same with the girls who have tried to go after drunk guys they wanted. And don't pretend that doesn't happen as I have seen it and even warned a few of my friends about one girl we knew who did that.

    Edit: Except for the fall over, black out drunk who can't consent or say no, that IS rape.
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  14. #54
    Brewmaster Time Sage's Avatar
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    Depends on if you're drunk too... or you're the drunk one while their sober and you're sure it was your idea.

  15. #55
    Stood in the Fire
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    If someone is blacked out, yes. They can't say yes or no. However if there judgement is impaired, I'll say no for one reason. Being drunk is not a valid or viable excuse for your actions while drunk, particularly those of a criminal nature. It might earn sympathy, but it doesn't excuse one's actions.
    Patience is a virtue. I never claimed to be virtuous.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Uselessrouge View Post
    if they are drunk and want sex? no

    RAPE is if someone DOES NOT want sex

    if they are to stupid to get drunk that they cant controll THEMSELFS its not your fault
    The problem with defining it as someone who doesn't want sex vs someone who doesn't consent is that while you may say no and therefore not consent given suitable stimulus your body will decide you want it. Therefore that is not a fair way to define it I'm afraid. Consent at least takes us a few steps back from that rather unsavoury means of definition.

    Though overall if someone consents, even while intoxicated so long as such is a state they consented to enter initially, then it is not and cannot be rape. Regrettable perhaps, but not rape.

    That being said, it is then the levels of intoxication itself that need to be defined before we can attempt to see where the grey areas move from white to black exactly. I mean while you are concious, and capable of enough awareness and coordination to move and act unaided then you are in control of your actions and responsible for such. If you're unable to stand on your onw and can't focus well on the world around you then to engage or consent to anything in such a state would become classifiable as rape because your body moves but your brain has long since departed and is simply going through the motions.
    Last edited by Tyrealius; 2015-09-20 at 04:33 AM. Reason: Spelling issues.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinBash View Post
    It's not rape and it's not even a bad thing. If they are passed out drunk then yes, it is absolutely both rape and bad but simply drunk? No. You're able to make your own decisions and if you get drunk and get fucked by someone ugly or gross or clingy then it's your own fault.
    when do you consider some one drunk enough that that they lose the capacity to give valid consent
    when they cant verbally give a yes or no answer to give consent or impaired enough that the lose the ability to fully comprehend and cognitive enough to give valid consent

  18. #58
    "Taking advantage" clearly implies that they would not have had sex with you if they were not drunk.

    Ergo, you are taking advantage of the fact that they are unable to think clearly due to chemical influence in order to have sex with them. Ethically, it's no different than dropping any of the "date rape" drugs into their drink.

    Even without that particular phrasing, it comes down to a simple question: are you able to give consent? If you got drunk, had sex, and after the fact don't regret it, you're certainly not obligated to press charges.... but ultimately, if they're drunk, they are not able to give consent.

    Of note, courts typically refuse to enforce any contract that was signed by one party that was drunk, if the second party to the contract was aware of the intoxication and took advantage of it to get the contract signed. Being taken advantage of while drunk is considered a legal defense to void a contract.

    @MatthewOU2015: Yes, she took advantage of you. The real question is: do you care? If not, then you don't need to press charges and everything's fine. But she absolutely took advantage of you, and if after the fact you decided you didn't want it, it would have been rape. Period.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    By the way - I'm specifically opposed to charging someone with rape in this instance. Remember - rape means years in jail. It means registering as a sex offender and being unable to live in many areas for the rest of your life. It means never being able to get a job because you have to admit to a felony. It means, basically, your life is utterly destroyed. Does it really make sense to do this to someone who was (probably drunk himself) and unable to infer whether the person was having sex just because she was drunk? I'm ok with sending them to counselling, or requiring they don't drink for a while, community service, whatever. I just think rape needs to be saved for more serious offenders.
    If one person was drunk and the other was not, and the one who was drunk wouldn't have said yes if he/she was sober I don't care even slightly what happens to them. Jail, sex offender registry, go wild.

    If they're both drunk, then neither was able to give consent; either both should be charged, or neither should be charged (ideally neither).

    The fact that in situations where both are drunk, the man is liable to get charged and the woman is not is a reflection of negative bias in society leading to improper application of the law. (Situations like this strike as being as absurd as charging a teen who texts nude pictures of himself/herself with child pornography; technically you can make the case under the law, but it's clearly not in the spirit of the law and it's clearly not going to help.)

  19. #59
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Coherently drunk, no. If they're stumbling, staggering, heavily slurring and very clearly not able to think straight then yes, it is. It's pretty damn easy to tell the difference too.
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
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  20. #60
    Scarab Lord bergmann620's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    That's a specious argument. Stealing is always bad. Violence is always bad.
    But you're not stealing. Yes, you're taking it, but she didn't tell you not to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    Sex is usually an enjoyable act, unlike getting punched in the face or having your money stolen.
    Sex with someone you want to have sex with, yes. Also, many, many people get joy out of donating money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    By the way - I'm specifically opposed to charging someone with rape in this instance. Remember - rape means years in jail. It means registering as a sex offender and being unable to live in many areas for the rest of your life. It means never being able to get a job because you have to admit to a felony. It means, basically, your life is utterly destroyed. Does it really make sense to do this to someone who was (probably drunk himself) and unable to infer whether the person was having sex just because she was drunk? I'm ok with sending them to counselling, or requiring they don't drink for a while, community service, whatever. I just think rape needs to be saved for more serious offenders.
    You're conflating two different circumstances.

    1) Person 'A' is drunk. You purposely leverage their lack of coherence to coerce them into sex..

    2) Person 'A' is drunk. You want to have sex with them and it seems like they want to have sex with you.

    The answer is really in the question. Are you intending to take advantage of them? It's all on the intent.
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