[PvP] Gladiator - Stat?

[Deleted]

What is the best stat for Gladiator while PvPing, actually?

[Valech]

You don´t. The only broken thing about gladiator PvP was the Shieldslam glyph. That was nerfed. PvP revolves around burst windows, to which Gladiator shave nothing to contribute to, since they lack cooldowns.
If we are talking bout amateur or open world PvP, I suggest going full prot. The glyph works for full prot and you have many tools to annoy your opponent.

If you still insist on playing Gladiator in PvP: best stat Bonusarmor.

[Bigbazz]

A Prot Warrior is like a Gladiator with much higher survival, you're best just sticking to defensive stance. Bonus Armor, and I imagine Crit/Mastery are your main stats and pretty much all of the stats have real value, haste is really strong for sustained damage output and Versatility should be useful for survival/damage. But definitely not Gladiator stance because it has nothing to offer in a PVP environment, just go Prot if you want to sword and board.

[Toppy]

A Prot Warrior is like a Gladiator with much higher survival, you're best just sticking to defensive stance. Bonus Armor, and I imagine Crit/Mastery are your main stats and pretty much all of the stats have real value, haste is really strong for sustained damage output and Versatility should be useful for survival/damage. But definitely not Gladiator stance because it has nothing to offer in a PVP environment, just go Prot if you want to sword and board.

Bonus armor >>> Vers > Crit >Mastery > Multi >>>>>>Haste is beyond worthless for prot.

Dont go glad, go prot. It kinda does more damage anyway if only because it dispell spam.

[Deleted]

Bonus armor >>> Vers > Crit >Mastery > Multi >>>>>>Haste is beyond worthless for prot.

Can anyone confirm this?

[Deleted]

Bonus armor >>> Vers > Crit >Mastery > Multi >>>>>>Haste is beyond worthless for prot.

Dont go glad, go prot. It kinda does more damage anyway if only because it dispell spam.

Was that supposed to be a stat priority for prot or glad? If it's for glad then I wouldn't trust a word out of your mouth after that. Glad has a soft cap on haste to allow for an extra shield slam inside shield charge, so you want 13% haste. Also, crit is most certainly above vers for both because devastate and shield slam crits proc enrage. You stack crit once you reach your haste soft cap. The only stat other than these two that prot warriors should care about is bonus armour, but it's irrelevant in pvp since you can't really stack it and the only enchant that gives it, mark of blackrock, is shit in pvp.

[Valech]

Was that supposed to be a stat priority for prot or glad? If it's for glad then I wouldn't trust a word out of your mouth after that. Glad has a soft cap on haste to allow for an extra shield slam inside shield charge, so you want 13% haste. Also, crit is most certainly above vers for both because devastate and shield slam crits proc enrage. You stack crit once you reach your haste soft cap. The only stat other than these two that prot warriors should care about is bonus armour, but it's irrelevant in pvp since you can't really stack it and the only enchant that gives it, mark of blackrock, is shit in pvp.

This. You are my favorite person today.

[Deleted]

Thanks!

tenchar

[Deleted]

Was that supposed to be a stat priority for prot or glad? If it's for glad then I wouldn't trust a word out of your mouth after that. Glad has a soft cap on haste to allow for an extra shield slam inside shield charge, so you want 13% haste. Also, crit is most certainly above vers for both because devastate and shield slam crits proc enrage. You stack crit once you reach your haste soft cap. The only stat other than these two that prot warriors should care about is bonus armour, but it's irrelevant in pvp since you can't really stack it and the only enchant that gives it, mark of blackrock, is shit in pvp.

So Bonus Armor > 13% Haste > Crit?

[Deleted]

So Bonus Armor > 13% Haste > Crit?

Essentially, yes. Realistically, bonus armour is irrelevant enough to not even be mentioned since you can only get it on a single ring. I would list the stat priority as Haste 13%>Crit>Mast=Vers>Multi

[Toppy]

Was that supposed to be a stat priority for prot or glad? If it's for glad then I wouldn't trust a word out of your mouth after that. Glad has a soft cap on haste to allow for an extra shield slam inside shield charge, so you want 13% haste. Also, crit is most certainly above vers for both because devastate and shield slam crits proc enrage. You stack crit once you reach your haste soft cap. The only stat other than these two that prot warriors should care about is bonus armour, but it's irrelevant in pvp since you can't really stack it and the only enchant that gives it, mark of blackrock, is shit in pvp.

1. We're talking about PvP
2. Haste is worthless for Prot, but not Glad
3. Versatility trumps crit for PvP, for both glad and prot.

If you want the Gladiator stat priority its

Bonus armor > Haste=Versatility > crit >mastery >multi

Haste is still important, though its not as important as it would be for PvE. In a PvP environment you're not to likely to be able to take full advantage of a shield charge window, plus versatility is a god tier stat for PvP. It may very well be a better stat than haste for PvP, but I imagie its close enough that it would come down to what you're fighting (versatility better for fighting range, haste for fighting melee)

If we were talking about PvE you'd be right. We're talking about PvP. And some gear for PvP does have bonus armor. Rings, cloaks, and neck all have a much higher priority for a pvp prot than other classes due to the bonus armor.That's why the bonus armor is mentioned. Essentially you want to get your 4pc first, then hit up those bonus armor pieces since they provide such a notably significant boost.

[Deleted]

1. We're talking about PvP
2. Haste is worthless for Prot, but not Glad
3. Versatility trumps crit for PvP

If we were talking about PvE you'd be right. We're talking about PvP. And some gear for PvP does have bonus armor. Rings, cloaks, and neck all have a much higher priority for a pvp prot than other classes due to the bonus armor.That's why the bonus armor is mentioned. Essentially you want to get your 4pc first, then hit up those bonus armor pieces since they provide such a notably significant boost.

1. Really? I wasn't aware, which makes it really strange that specifically stated I was talking about pvp
2. I never said any different, which is why I asked whether you were giving a stat priority for prot or glad before explaining why glad wants haste. The op did not ask for a stat priority for prot, he asked for one for glad, which means I would be perfectly justified in just assuming that the stat priority was for glad. I didn't, instead I asked.
3. Except it doesn't. The main problem prot/glad has in pvp is the lack of burst, and the fairly low damage. Crit stacking fixes this. Crit provides more damage that vers, and prot/glad warriors don't exactly need the defense provided by vers.

I will give you the point on bonus armour though, for some reason I thought there was only a single ring which gave it.

[Toppy]

1. Really? I wasn't aware, which makes it really strange that specifically stated I was talking about pvp
2. I never said any different, which is why I asked whether you were giving a stat priority for prot or glad before explaining why glad wants haste. The op did not ask for a stat priority for prot, he asked for one for glad, which means I would be perfectly justified in just assuming that the stat priority was for glad. I didn't, instead I asked.
3. Except it doesn't. The main problem prot/glad has in pvp is the lack of burst, and the fairly low damage. Crit stacking fixes this. Crit provides more damage that vers, and prot/glad warriors don't exactly need the defense provided by vers.

I will give you the point on bonus armour though, for some reason I thought there was only a single ring which gave it.

For glad, they do have decent burst via their shield charge. They need the survivability too, which makes Vers > Crit for glad. Glad very very much does still need survivability. Against spell caster comps especially: in such a situation they're squishier than arms and fury.

For Prot, the primary reason you're brought, and your primary source of damage, is your shield slam dispells. You still need survivability, and crit doesn't offer much in the way of damage here that versatility wont already give you. Vers already isn't all that behind crit from a damage standpoint for prot, the extra surv just seals the deal.

And speaking on bonus armor. Is the legend ring still a must have for prot/glad PvP? Haven't PvPed in a few months, so that could have changed.

[Deleted]

How could you even consider Bonus Armor to be irrelevant? It's on three different offpieces, not to mention the offsets.
http://www.wowhead.com/items=4?filte...4.39;gb=1#neck
You can simply change the search field for blue pieces, were you to look for those aswell.

These are the stat prios for Gladiator in PvE

Stats


685-715 ilvl
Strength > Bonus Armor/Attack Power > Haste to 13% Buffed > Crit > Multistrike > Mastery > Vers > Haste after 13% buffed.

730 ilvl BIS
Wdps > Strength > AP/BonusArmor > Haste to 13% Buffed > Crit > Multistrike > Vers > Mastery > Haste after 13% Buffed.

Taken from Cyclonus' blog
http://gladiatorsresolve.blogspot.it/

In PvP, I'd say to be wary about the 13% Haste value. In a thread about Gladstance on AJ there's the 330 Haste breakpoint mentioned, but things changed wildly since then.

I'd go for BA > Versa > Mastery as pure Prot since Gladstance has slightly more damage and arguable mobility, but I wouldn't stray much away from that anyway.

If you have the legendary ring, take it aswell. Its active won't work in any structured PvP aside from duels and maybe Ashran, but its stats are best in slot however you look at it.

One last headsup: you need the 4pc bonus set. Rage from damage taken is way too strong to pass up when going defensive.

[Deleted]

For glad, they do have decent burst via their shield charge. They need the survivability too, which makes Vers > Crit for glad. Glad very very much does still need survivability. Against spell caster comps especially: in such a situation they're squishier than arms and fury.

For Prot, the primary reason you're brought, and your primary source of damage, is your shield slam dispells. You still need survivability, and crit doesn't offer much in the way of damage here that versatility wont already give you. Vers already isn't all that behind crit from a damage standpoint for prot, the extra surv just seals the deal.

And speaking on bonus armor. Is the legend ring still a must have for prot/glad PvP? Haven't PvPed in a few months, so that could have changed.

Shield charge is only barely decent burst, stacking crit helps that. It gives you harder hitting shield slams in two different ways and lets you stack an enrage proc with the little burst you have.

Glad warriors are fine against spell casters as long as they know how to use shield barrier, and with the 4p bonus it doesn't even matter as much whether they're sticking on the target or not. Even disregarding this, it's lunacy to call glad squishier than arms and fury. In a fight against a caster there isn't a single relevant defensive cooldown that arms/fury have but glad does not, while glad is able to use shield barrier much better that arms/fury.

You're really stretching by calling shield slam dispels prot's primary source of damage. The only time I'd call that a decent representation of the situation is against a disc priest comp, or possibly against feral/resto druids. Outside of those situations your dispel is more of a defensive than an offensive. But even assuming that is the case, it has no bearing on anything we've be discussing.

Crit offers one huge thing that versatility wont give you, that being a straight 10% damage increase that can be kept up near constantly thanks to the 2 piece bonus. Vers scaling on prot is not amazing like it is on some classes *cough*feral*cough*, and both prot and glad already have more survivability than either of the other warrior specs. If you think that vers is that high for prot because of a lack of survivability I'd love to see how high you rate it for arms and fury.

I'd imagine it isn't thanks to blizz nerfing pve items in pvp, since 6.1 all pve items scale down to 680 Ilvl in instanced pve.

[Toppy]

Shield charge is only barely decent burst, stacking crit helps that. It gives you harder hitting shield slams in two different ways and lets you stack an enrage proc with the little burst you have.

Glad warriors are fine against spell casters as long as they know how to use shield barrier, and with the 4p bonus it doesn't even matter as much whether they're sticking on the target or not. Even disregarding this, it's lunacy to call glad squishier than arms and fury. In a fight against a caster there isn't a single relevant defensive cooldown that arms/fury have but glad does not, while glad is able to use shield barrier much better that arms/fury.

You're really stretching by calling shield slam dispels prot's primary source of damage. The only time I'd call that a decent representation of the situation is against a disc priest comp, or possibly against feral/resto druids. Outside of those situations your dispel is more of a defensive than an offensive. But even assuming that is the case, it has no bearing on anything we've be discussing.

Crit offers one huge thing that versatility wont give you, that being a straight 10% damage increase that can be kept up near constantly thanks to the 2 piece bonus. Vers scaling on prot is not amazing like it is on some classes *cough*feral*cough*, and both prot and glad already have more survivability than either of the other warrior specs. If you think that vers is that high for prot because of a lack of survivability I'd love to see how high you rate it for arms and fury.

I'd imagine it isn't thanks to blizz nerfing pve items in pvp, since 6.1 all pve items scale down to 680 Ilvl in instanced pve.

Arms and fury can go protection stance. they can also use shield barrier (they have to use a shield yes, but when gap closing, who gives a damn). Shield barrier is also rather pathetic mitigation for its cost. You need to hold on to rage for heroic strike as glad which is a significant portion of your damage. Thats one of glads issues. Their only mitigation for casters is shield barrier, which they can only use by sacrificing a significant portion of their damage.

Vers is rather high for arms and fury in a PvP environment.

The warrior 4pc is equally effective no matter your crit levels. Its a flat 50% increase to crit.

Its not lunacy to say glad is squishier. You're seeing a shield and assuming its automatically more defensive, when its not since glad gives up two of prots most important forms of damage mitigation: the flat percentage decrease in damage taken, and shield block. Glad has more defense vs melee. Less vs range. And even its melee defense isn't all that notably better since you mostly need that defensive for burst windows, which fury and arms both have the hands down best mitigation ability for fighting other melee. Not to mention the ability to go prot stance for a flat percentage decrease in damage taken.

[Deleted]

Arms and fury can go protection stance. they can also use shield barrier (they have to use a shield yes, but when gap closing, who gives a damn). Shield barrier is also rather pathetic mitigation for its cost. You need to hold on to rage for heroic strike as glad which is a significant portion of your damage. Thats one of glads issues. Their only mitigation for casters is shield barrier, which they can only use by sacrificing a significant portion of their damage.

Vers is rather high for arms and fury in a PvP environment.

The warrior 4pc is equally effective no matter your crit levels. Its a flat 50% increase to crit.

Its not lunacy to say glad is squishier. You're seeing a shield and assuming its automatically more defensive, when its not since glad gives up two of prots most important forms of damage mitigation: the flat percentage decrease in damage taken, and shield block. Glad has more defense vs melee. Less vs range. And even its melee defense isn't all that notably better since you mostly need that defensive for burst windows, which fury and arms both have the hands down best mitigation ability for fighting other melee. Not to mention the ability to go prot stance for a flat percentage decrease in damage taken.

Shield barrier isn't very resource efficient, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still something. Also, the majority of your damage against casters comes from the shield slams and revenges you get in before they manage to create a gap again, heroic strike is only a significant portion of damage against classes you can train. Against classes like mage and hunter you're better of with heavy repercussions so that you can get more damage out quickly, so you'll hardly be using heroic strike anyways. Shield Barrier provides a dump for the extra rage that you have thanks to this lack of using heroic strike.

I think you mean the 2pc bonus, and I never said any different than this. I said that stacking crit combined with the 2 pc bonus allows for near constant uptime of enrage.

It really is. No, I'm seeing defensive things like shield wall, shield barrier, the ability to block, the fact that you have more armour. I'm seeing the fact that it literally is more defensive and then making the statement that it's more defensive. Also, what are you talking about it needs it's defense for burst windows? The reason that glad is unequivocally more defensive against melee than arms or fury is that you can block, which has absolutely nothing to do with your ability to burst. And yes, you can go prot stance as arms or fury, but you lose a large amount of your damage. Glad has access to all of it's defensives without that straight damage loss.

- - - Updated - - -

How could you even consider Bonus Armor to be irrelevant? It's on three different offpieces, not to mention the offsets.
http://www.wowhead.com/items=4?filte...4.39;gb=1#neck
You can simply change the search field for blue pieces, were you to look for those aswell.

These are the stat prios for Gladiator in PvE

Taken from Cyclonus' blog
http://gladiatorsresolve.blogspot.it/

In PvP, I'd say to be wary about the 13% Haste value. In a thread about Gladstance on AJ there's the 330 Haste breakpoint mentioned, but things changed wildly since then.

I'd go for BA > Versa > Mastery as pure Prot since Gladstance has slightly more damage and arguable mobility, but I wouldn't stray much away from that anyway.

If you have the legendary ring, take it aswell. Its active won't work in any structured PvP aside from duels and maybe Ashran, but its stats are best in slot however you look at it.

One last headsup: you need the 4pc bonus set. Rage from damage taken is way too strong to pass up when going defensive.

I've already addressed my mistake about bonus armour. For some reason I thought there was only a single ring that had bonus armour.

[Bigbazz]

I think the issue (and confusion with my post) is when comparing PVP with PVE priorities and whether you're gonna go full Glad or Prot. Haste for Gladiator dps is very strong, even if it's not desired from a survival/prot point of view. Either way, I can't see any reason to go Gladiator over Prot in PVP really, because Shield Slam glyph effectively gives you more dps vs a lot of targets than you would have as Glad without it.

For Prot, Crit/Mastery are very strong for both damage and survival, Versatility is weaker in damage but also provides survival, haste even for Prot is valuable for pure sustained damage dealing, but little other benefits. It has been a while since I played PVP in any form this expansion, but when I played as Prot in 3s we were completely steamrolling most teams we came up against in the low-mid ratings and mostly thanks to Shield Slam glyph and Prot survival, neither of which is a thing in Glad stance.

[Rorke]

Mastery is the best stat for Prot because when you actually decide to seriously play and have a brain, you can swap to Arms without having to regear or re enchant your shit. Versatility is bad because you can't stack it through gear as you're forced to get the stupid 4P that should be passive. Having Versatility stats on just enchants is a waste and you won't notice the difference in defense mitigation.


Not like Defensive Mitigation matters because you'll be playing Prot which is completely worthless in terms of mitigation and a worthless spec overall I might add. Wizards will fuck you so hard, you'll be wishing you had Arms Defensive stance. Arms gets so much shit for being "bad" for "solo" play (hilarious considering this class is strictly meant for team play anyway) yet every time I decide to play Prot once in a blue moon I feel like I'm back on my Rogue that doesn't have Feint up during a stun where you die instantly.


Armor and blocking is meaningless when non Rogue/Warrior/2H Frost DK melee are hardly effected by them. Enhance will still fuck you with magical attacks, Rets will still glass you when they burst, Monks will still fuck you with Fists of Fury/Brew burst, Assassination will still fuck you with poisons, ect you get the point. Blocking/Armor really only does well against other Warriors/2H Frost DK's and non Assassination Rogues. But even then it doesn't matter because those specs will still out damage you.


Prot is like playing a Combat Rogue with no Killing Spree/Deep Insight/Adrenaline Rush where you'll feel like you're just hitting buttons that don't feel like they're worth shit except at least with Combat it has defensive bonuses like Feint/Evasion/CoS/Stealth/Silence/Blind/Combat Readiness on top of its offensive cds. Prot has nothing that competes defensively with Rogues and I haven't even brought up Burst of Speed yet.


So go ahead and waste your time with your favorite so called "defensive spec" that does everything worse defensively than most other specs in this game. On top of your already piss poor defensive capability, you get the bonus of dealing no meaningful damage where you have to wait all the way into Dampening have a chance to kill someone. Sounds fun.


I think those of you that try so hard to make this class into a good "solo survival" class need to finally accept the idea that this class IS ALWAYS going to be dependent on other classes to carry you. No matter how hard you try to force yourself into believing otherwise by playing weird shitty specs like UqT Fury or Prot or stacking stamina trinkets or some weird bullshit, understand that other specs in this game will still have far better survival while dealing more damage than anything you can do.


Play Arms, hell play Fury if you want because at least with Fury (as much as I hate it) you'll be performing the role this class is meant to play as a pure damage/aoe king cleave bot that actually won't be a burden to your team mates.

[Valech]

Also a good advice regarding Glad stance and this forum in general is to never listen to Ryan Cailan Ebonheart. Luckily he is banned most of the time for spouting bullshit and being toxic.