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  1. #21
    The Insane Underverse's Avatar
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    Not great, but the title is a bit misleading. He wasn't eating because of his own volition. They weren't exactly neglecting him; they just weren't making all of the right decisions.

    There are better ways the situation could have been handled, for sure. But I'm having a hard time feeling sympathy for a repeat criminal drug addict.

    I'd like to add that the officials involved are being very open about the case, which is encouraging. They also mention resource shortages for dealing with those with mental health problems. I doubt this is a malicious incident, though that doesn't waive responsibility.

  2. #22
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Can't pay ticket throw you in jail... yes that's the way.

    Put into mental health cell after a nurse said he should be in detox and who was there to provide mental health? Who was there to help him while he was going through withdrawal?
    You should look into the privatization of the U.S. prison system - you think this story is unique? It's not. They've made poverty a crime now.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Macomb County, right near detroit..
    until you specified this was in the US (i guessed it was) i had a tiny glimmer of hope based on his name, that this happened somewhere else for a change.

  4. #24
    The Insane Feali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emageht Tsoluoy View Post
    until you specified this was in the US (i guessed it was) i had a tiny glimmer of hope based on his name, that this happened somewhere else for a change.
    That's exactly what I was thinking.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    I'd like to add that the officials involved are being very open about the case, which is encouraging. They also mention resource shortages for dealing with those with mental health problems. I doubt this is a malicious incident, though that doesn't waive responsibility.
    The official quoted is the leader of the county. He says the county gave the FBI the tape. He doesn't mention that it was given up under subpoena. He admits to not watching the video. Won't give specifics on the case, while saying the validity of the details in the complaint need to "be vetted." He's just a shit weasel talking out of the sides of his mouth trying to save his elected position.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    Not great, but the title is a bit misleading. He wasn't eating because of his own volition. They weren't exactly neglecting him; they just weren't making all of the right decisions.

    There are better ways the situation could have been handled, for sure. But I'm having a hard time feeling sympathy for a repeat criminal drug addict.

    I'd like to add that the officials involved are being very open about the case, which is encouraging. They also mention resource shortages for dealing with those with mental health problems. I doubt this is a malicious incident, though that doesn't waive responsibility.
    He a drug addict... They need help...

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Ya, sorry, the 'other side of the story' in this case is letting an inmate die because they didn't follow the instructions given by medical personnel. The Detroit News story is mainly just quotes from a politician stonewalling.

    The case is currently being appealed by the county, to try to get it dropped. The FBI hasn't really been involved at all. Supposedly autopsy shows that he died from withdrawal. In other words, poor medical care. If the autopsy report is true, there isn't really another side of the story.

    Edit: I should say proceedings to hear the motion to dismiss have been scheduled, really, not currently being appealed.
    Nurses cannot make these kind of medical decisions... plain and simple. It is beyond their scope of practice... doing so can cause a nurse to have their licence revoked. If he was sent to mental health, it was done by a doctor.
    No man really becomes a fool until he stops asking questions.

  8. #28
    Elemental Lord Templar 331's Avatar
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    So a former druggie gets caught for careless driving and dies from withdrawal in jail. It shouldn't have happened but it's kind of hard for me to care about someone who did the kind of illegal drugs that require methadone to come off of.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Emageht Tsoluoy View Post
    until you specified this was in the US (i guessed it was) i had a tiny glimmer of hope based on his name, that this happened somewhere else for a change.
    I wasn't the OP. I just googled the name of the guy who died and macomb county. Then looked up the case "Michigan Eastern District Court, Case No. 2:15-cv-11019" which has the specifics of what happened. The guy lost 50lbs from his intake weight to autopsy weight. The officers knew he was on medication to keep his withdrawal symptoms from killing him, as well as other prescribed medication. They refused to give the medications to him. At his intake he was marked for emergency care if he ever exhibited signs of nausea, hallucinations, or seizures, signs he displayed on the video, and care he did not receive. There is clear tort. Prison knew he needed medication, and who his doctor was, knew about the clear danger to him from not receiving medication, saw him suffering the effects of his withdrawal from those medications, and then just let him die.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoweye View Post
    Nurses cannot make these kind of medical decisions... plain and simple. It is beyond their scope of practice... doing so can cause a nurse to have their licence revoked. If he was sent to mental health, it was done by a doctor.
    You should read the case.

    Edit: Seriously, the politician is just saying, "Hey I don't know the details, it LOOKS pretty bad from the tape, but fuck that guy, our county isn't going to spend a dime on this!"
    Last edited by Ripster42; 2015-10-03 at 12:47 AM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Templar 331 View Post
    So a former druggie gets caught for careless driving and dies from withdrawal in jail. It shouldn't have happened but it's kind of hard for me to care about someone who did the kind of illegal drugs that require methadone to come off of.
    Oh yeah demonize addicts who can't help it since they've become addicted. I knew a woman who was addicted to Crack after her brother forced her to use it.

    We don't live in a country with an abundance of programs to help addicts. When they're caught they're thrown in jail.

  11. #31
    Elemental Lord Flutterguy's Avatar
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    Cops aren't trained physicians.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Flutterguy View Post
    Cops aren't trained physicians.
    They were to contact someone when he showed signs.

    It was recommended he be in detox

    They restricted his medicine

  13. #33
    >shit like this happens

    >police wonders why people dont like them
    Whoever loves let him flourish. / Let him perish who knows not love. / Let him perish twice who forbids love. - Pompeii

    The nature of discussion is trial ballooning.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Flutterguy View Post
    Cops aren't trained physicians.
    I'm assuming they have brains though (these aren't cops btw, they're prison guards). Read the case. Google "Michigan Eastern District Court, Case No. 2:15-cv-11019" and the first plainsite downloads a pdf of the case. They knew he was on medication to prevent withdrawal. As well as other medications. Either they're not qualified to be prison guards or they know that withdrawal is dangerous. They saw him going through signs of withdrawal, and when he asked when his medication was coming they said it wasn't and then they let him die.

    Edit: Actually I'm not sure. They're guards at a jail? They might be cops. I'm not sure with the way they contract their work.
    Last edited by Ripster42; 2015-10-03 at 02:08 AM.

  15. #35
    This thread didn't disappoint. Themius keeps living up to what is constantly said about him. Thanks for the laugh, more effort next time though.

    Next we'll see a thread along the lines of " Unarmed black man killed by white man "..then the second sentence in the article it says " In a traffic accident".
    Last edited by Stop Pretending; 2015-10-03 at 02:58 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    We only burn oil in this house! Oil that comes from decent, god-fearing sources like dinosaurs! Which didn't exist!

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Stop Pretending View Post
    This thread didn't disappoint. Themius keeps living up to what is constantly said about him. Thanks for the laugh, more effort next time though.

    Next we'll see a thread along the lines of " Unarmed black man killed by white man "..then the second sentence in the article it says " In a traffic accident".
    With no source.
    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    I feel bad for all those 'protesters' at the Trump rally, it's like the real life equivalent of making a 40 man raid in WoW and not having the boss spawn, thereby denying them a chance at looting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That's a nonsense argument that ignores what words mean.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Luxxor View Post
    With no source.
    Nothing is stopping you from looking up the case. I've posted what you need to find the download for the pdf. But for good measure: Michigan Eastern District Court, Case No. 2:15-cv-11019.

  18. #38
    On an aside, any doctor that is knowingly prescribing methadone and any combination of xanax or klonopin should be sincerely evaluated and removed from practice. Benzodiazepines and opioides should never be mixed. I'm surprised that didn't kill him.

    None of the behavioral health clinics I used to work with will prescribe anxiolytics for people concurrently going to methadone clinics for the very reason it was killing people, even at normal doses.

  19. #39
    Elemental Lord Templar 331's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Oh yeah demonize addicts who can't help it since they've become addicted.
    Their choice, these are the consequences. Anyone who believes drugs aren't addictive is a fool.

    I knew a woman who was addicted to Crack after her brother forced her to use it.
    So that must be true with every crack head am I right? And god forbid she call the cops on his ass and seeks medical help instead of following his habits.

    We don't live in a country with an abundance of programs to help addicts. When they're caught they're thrown in jail.
    No but we do have an abundance of programs that teach kids DON'T DO DRUGS! When you choose to do something you were taught as a child was bad it's really hard for me to feel sympathy for you.

  20. #40
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Templar 331 View Post
    Their choice, these are the consequences. Anyone who believes drugs aren't addictive is a fool.



    So that must be true with every crack head am I right? And god forbid she call the cops on his ass and seeks medical help instead of following his habits.



    No but we do have an abundance of programs that teach kids DON'T DO DRUGS! When you choose to do something you were taught as a child was bad it's really hard for me to feel sympathy for you.
    Do you know this addict personally then?

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