Alliance - Good/Heroes, Horde - Bad/Villains?

[vilememory]

Yes, Alliance good and Horde bad. Orcs are genocidal, trolls cannabalistic evil spirit worshippers, goblins are greed personified, blood elves addiction and vanity, undead are emotionless sociopaths obsessed with death, and tauren are racist elitist.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Orcs are genocidal

Must have missed the part where the majority of orcs didn't agree with Garrosh.

trolls cannabalistic evil spirit worshippers,

Must have missed the part where Darkspear aren't cannibals or where they don't worship only evil spirits.

goblins are greed personified

Alliance use Goblins too.

blood elves addiction and vanity

They are the more humble than High elves.

undead are emotionless sociopaths obsessed with death

or owlbears

and tauren are racist elitist.

lol what?

[Theodarzna]

Errrr, IMHO the Horde has always been sort of generically evil in nature, with some heroic qualities or a deep desire by the writers to make the Horde kinda heroic underdogs.

But, I tend to see it as an evil faction.

Orcs being the over all crux of the evilness debate. At the Hordes core, it is a Orcish faction with some other races. Much as the Alliance is a Human faction, with some other races. Orcs are fundamentally in the wrong kinda no matter what they do. They chose to drink demon blood, they chose to invade Azeroth, they committed well, cosmic evil. Willingly, gleefully, and to some extent even without demon blood it would appear their warlike and imperialistic nature remains if I recall the DraenorWarlords story correct. In that instance it can't even be pinned on the demon blood. Nearly the whole Orcish race is happy to just go murder slaughter anyone they want and take their things, even invade other worlds. Not even because they lack resources or have some great need, just because it would be awesome to conquer people. Orcs invaded, leveled Kingdoms, and even when the human States were completely justified in simply exterminating the captives they in a freakishly stupid moment of mercy let them live.

This gift of life that was IMHO totally undeserved was repaid by Thrall and the Orcs when they rebelled, and founded Durotar. They continue to war with humans and even vow their conquest and annihilation. They hate the Alliance, but for objectively petty reasons. "I can't believe you put us in camps." Considering the circumstances, they literally would have been completely justified in offing the whole damn lot of them. No Orc at present deserves really to even live or exist, none that are native to Azeroth anyway. I use the term native because they are basically an invasive lifeform.

Their behavior of evil continues to this day, basically enacting land theft and theft in general across the new planet they call home. From the Night Elf forests, to the half Wolf/Half Human homeland (Which would have been unaligned save for Orcish viciousness.)

The Forsaken present another issue, they are just, well, bad. Granted my lore knowledge ends with Cataclysm, but as of that point they are IMHO filling in for the Scourge.

In the redeeming camp the Horde has Trolls, or at least THEIR trolls whom have mostly just been little tribes that mostly leave people alone if you leave them alone. Tauren, the same camp, and I suppose Blood Elves and....

Errrr Goblins? Well.... their native and I suppose being ultra-Capitalist isn't total wickedness.

The Alliance on the other hand is composed of races who have more or less done little. Mostly do to a complete lack of writing for the alliance. Save for the Space Goats, Azeroth is their native world. Orcs don't belong on Azeroth in a sense, and the Forsaken by the laws of nature shouldn't exist. (Most in game sources do refer to undeath as an abomination) and Blood Elves at least passively have enslaved essentially a magic crystal Jesus and nearly accidentally got the world Kil'Jeaden, though that isn't necessarily their fault. Humans belong to the world of Azeroth. Those were their Kingdoms, mostly stolen by others and their opinions of Orcs are 1000% justified from just the simple perspective of "Demon worshiping green murder machine aliens came here, killed who knows how many, served as the vanguard for a demon invasion and now claim righteousness while still basically invading, stealing and pillaging everything. Also WHY DIDNT WE JUST KILL THEM WHEN WE HAD THE CHANCE?!"

Dwarves, Gnomes, Worgan and Draenei have poor writing but like are nearly all good in nature, one are immortal space goats who travel in a magic holy space ship with crystal Jesus' for Gods sake.

Tauren and Trolls are at least partial Amerindian in inspiration. With Tauren being our collective stereotypes of plains Indians with their "noble primitive customs and love of nature!" And Trolls being the more the stereotypes of Aztecs, Maya, Inca and Amazonian tribes with the whole human sacrifice, pyramids, blood lust rituals and warfare and Empire building and Gods whose demands would make one think they need better Gods.

Though in conclusion I'd say WoW Just has poorly written lore.

[Shibito]

Illidan, Kael'thas, Naga, Arthas, Kel'Thuzad, Medivh are all considered "bad guys" who were Alliance, just like Garrosh, Grom, Sylvanas, etc who are/were Horde.

How is sylvanas bad? For fighting against the invading worgen? Get dem alliance glasses off.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Orcs being the over all crux of the evilness debate. At the Hordes core, it is a Orcish faction with some other races. Much as the Alliance is a Human faction, with some other races. Orcs are fundamentally in the wrong kinda no matter what they do. They chose to drink demon blood, they chose to invade Azeroth, they committed well, cosmic evil. Willingly, gleefully, and to some extent even without demon blood it would appear their warlike and imperialistic nature remains if I recall the DraenorWarlords story correct.

In the MU they were driven by the demon blood, and before the demon blood they were lied too, thinking that the greatest source the Orcs had, the wisdom of their ancestors who always watched out and helped them, had told them the Draenei were a mortal threat. It wasn't just Ner'zhul talking about it too, Kil'jaden gave the visions to every shaman great and lesser to the Orc Clans. In warlords of Draenor Garrosh shows Grom the vision of time and tells him slavery under demons and then humans is all that awaits them if they don't act and take of Draenor and Azeroth.

This gift of life that was IMHO totally undeserved was repaid by Thrall and the Orcs when they rebelled, and founded Durotar.

And helped save the World at Mount Hyjal, battling the legion and the Scourge alongside the Humans and Night Elves.

I can't believe you put us in camps." Considering the circumstances, they literally would have been completely justified in offing the whole damn lot of them

many of the Orcs who said that were born in the camps, never free, and would have died slaves if not for Thrall. It's no wonder so many orcs hate humans why should they have to pay for their parent's sins and live their life in a muddy pit?

No Orc at present deserves really to even live or exist, none that are native to Azeroth anyway. I use the term native because they are basically an invasive lifeform.

So you disregard all the Orcs that fought at Hyjal first with Archimonde, then with Ragnaros, The lich King, Death wing, etc? The Majority of the Orcs sided against Garrosh. And Most of the orcs now were Born on Azeroth, they deserve to live there just as much as any other race.

heir behavior of evil continues to this day, basically enacting land theft and theft in general across the new planet they call home. From the Night Elf forests, to the half Wolf/Half Human homeland (Which would have been unaligned save for Orcish viciousness.)

The night elves orginally gave them part of the forest to harvest, and then later took it back because they blamed the Orcs for wrathGate. And at least you understand that Garrosh started the War agaisnt Gilnaes, not the Forsaken.

The Forsaken present another issue, they are just, well, bad. Granted my lore knowledge ends with Cataclysm, but as of that point they are IMHO filling in for the Scourge.

People comparing the Forsaken to the Scourge ought to look again, down to the core they are different. The Forsaken emphasize Free will and the ability to chose what you want to do in unlife. What makes them so evil? That they Kill Alliance? That they resurrect people? There is no mind control and Blizzard stated if someone is resurrected and does not want to be Forsaken, the forsaken let them die again, or run off and do their own thing as long as it isnt actively working against them. Do you think they are evil because they use the Blight? The Blight isn't an evil weapon and in fact kills quicker than many conventional means. And The Alliance uses warlocks, which set afire to people, drain souls and life from people which is much more painful than anything the Blight does. So is it only evil when the Forsaken do it?

Humans belong to the world of Azeroth. Those were their Kingdoms, mostly stolen by others and their opinions of Orcs are 1000% justified from just the simple perspective of "Demon worshiping green murder machine aliens came here,

Orcs have not taken over any human Kingdom. And Humans are decedent from robots who aren't native to this world, obviously humans don't belong here and should leave.

Dwarves, Gnomes, Worgan and Draenei have poor writing but like are nearly all good in nature, one are immortal space goats who travel in a magic holy space ship with crystal Jesus' for Gods sake.

so good that they lead the burning legion to countless worlds as they fled, leading to the deaths of billions of innocents in their wake.

And Trolls being the more the stereotypes of Aztecs, Maya, Inca and Amazonian tribes with the whole human sacrifice, pyramids, blood lust rituals and warfare and Empire building and Gods whose demands would make one think they need better Gods.

Darkspear do none of thay pyramid human sacrifices rituals etc. Although trolls are more native to Azeroth then humans, gnomes and Dwarves

[Arrashi]

lol what?

Now you know why baine defended garrosh.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Now you know why baine defended garrosh.

Baine shouts at the top of his lungs "filthy trash breeds, Orc master race!"

[Arrashi]

Baine shouts at the top of his lungs "filthy trash breeds, Orc master race!"

He also supports historical revisionism of cataclysm and mists of pandaria.

[Friendlyimmolation]

He also supports historical revisionism of cataclysm and mists of pandaria.

Baine writes "my struggle" In all seriousness though, I wan't to know what game that guy was playing where he could call Tauren Racist Elite.

[Arrashi]

Baine writes "my struggle" In all seriousness though, I wan't to know what game that guy was playing where he could call Tauren Racist Elite.

lvl 80 ELITE tauren chieftain ?

[Theodarzna]

In the MU they were driven by the demon blood, and before the demon blood they were lied too, thinking that the greatest source the Orcs had, the wisdom of their ancestors who always watched out and helped them, had told them the Draenei were a mortal threat. It wasn't just Ner'zhul talking about it too, Kil'jaden gave the visions to every shaman great and lesser to the Orc Clans. In warlords of Draenor Garrosh shows Grom the vision of time and tells him slavery under demons and then humans is all that awaits them if they don't act and take of Draenor and Azeroth.

Okay, your dead great great grandmother tells you to murder space Jesus neighbor, and you listen? I mean, in that instance than Orc's border on being retarded. Still, Demon blood, thus invasion. With Draenei being characterized as the goodest good folks since goodness was invented, that means the Orcs willingly went against what they could plainly see and followed the advice of Ghosts who at that points SUDDENLY switched gears and said "Hey guys, murder nazi'ing is A-Okay!" Okay the Orc's are downgraded from evil, to stupid and mildly evil.

Being lied too or tricked doesn't change what happened from the perspective of the native humans, dwarves, gnomes and Elves on Azeroth. From their vantage point, a portal opened and out poured demon worshiping green skinned murder nazi's. What from that perspective could one assume? Orcs are by nature either evil, or critically bad at making judgement calls.

The Warlords of Draenor timeline is even more damning. There one Orc, and Orc that I think doesn't even exist yet in theory, whom no living Orc then would have known or met appears showing them visions and they just believe him and say "Yeah, Lets be Murder Nazi's!" I think that strengthens the claim even better. At least before you could chalk it up to sincere piety and belief in their ancestors knowledge and guidance gone wrong.... here.... Damn that is just a painful lack of a concept of ethics and herd mentality on steroids.

And helped save the World at Mount Hyjal, battling the legion and the Scourge alongside the Humans and Night Elves.

That....

Is incidental, being convenient later on doesn't excuse what happened here. Doesn't change the material facts that Orc's invaded and by every rational thought should have been rightly exterminated post 2nd war, and the Alliance nations would have been justified in doing so. Their actions up to that point are not washed away by them being useful later on for something. Orc's are still responsible for countless lives lost, massive amounts of destruction, and to this day still seeking the destruction of Alliance nations and peoples, at this point for no justified reason.

Thrall for all his written in wisdom seems utterly, painfully, lacking in the wisdom department to understand the utter absurdities of his nation/race/cultures attitudes in the world they find themselves in.

Being materially useful, for once does not wipe away their sins. More over, they did it as much for their desire to survive as humanities desire to survive. It wasn't a noble act for a righteous cause but an act for survival.

many of the Orcs who said that were born in the camps, never free, and would have died slaves if not for Thrall. It's no wonder so many orcs hate humans why should they have to pay for their parent's sins and live their life in a muddy pit?

Does not change why they are there. Do the Orc's not teach their own history? Do they not know about the 1st and 2nd war?

More over the inheritable nature of that demon taint would be cause to just simply wipe them away completely. Again, after the second war the Human States would have been completely justified in just simply ending the Orcish kind right then and there. Those children by every right are blessed to have even been born in the mud at all, the Mud is too good for them, they literally don't deserve even that.

Do they not know why they are there? Or did their parents just say "Aww shucks those mean ol' humans right? I mean they just locked us away.... no reason t'all." In which case the Orcs are more evil than before, now they deny it. Is Thrall and company just unaware of the past? Have they simply deluded themselves?

More over, why would the Alliance ever take that risk? Decidedly evil invading death murder aliens... heck the mere fact they let them live as slaves is a testament to a profoundly stupid sense of mercy.

So you disregard all the Orcs that fought at Hyjal first with Archimonde, then with Ragnaros, The lich King, Death wing, etc? The Majority of the Orcs sided against Garrosh. And Most of the orcs now were Born on Azeroth, they deserve to live there just as much as any other race.

They fought as much for their own survival and material gain than they did any supposed noble cause.

They are born there do to an act of evil, invasion, theft, and war. The 1st and 2nd war are not undone by acts as much for their own survival than anything else. Perhaps if they did a truly selfless and noble thing you might have a point.

The night elves orginally gave them part of the forest to harvest, and then later took it back because they blamed the Orcs for wrathGate. And at least you understand that Garrosh started the War agaisnt Gilnaes, not the Forsaken.

I've never read any peace of lore that says they "gave them," anything. I do note the Orc's killed a Demi-God, and never really made any amends for that.

More over, Garrosh, their leader did so, and the Orc's did not rebel or disobey. Heck even when Garrosh and Orcish leaders became widely aware of Sylvannas raising the recently dead they did nothing.

People comparing the Forsaken to the Scourge ought to look again, down to the core they are different. The Forsaken emphasize Free will and the ability to chose what you want to do in unlife. What makes them so evil? That they Kill Alliance? That they resurrect people? There is no mind control and Blizzard stated if someone is resurrected and does not want to be Forsaken, the forsaken let them die again, or run off and do their own thing as long as it isnt actively working against them. Do you think they are evil because they use the Blight? The Blight isn't an evil weapon and in fact kills quicker than many conventional means. And The Alliance uses warlocks, which set afire to people, drain souls and life from people which is much more painful than anything the Blight does. So is it only evil when the Forsaken do it?

Undead are by their vary nature, not supposed to exist. It is basically an abomination unto itself. Yes, Killing someone and then making them undead and giving them the choice to be "One of us or... Idk, probably be killed by others. I know we killed you and are forcing this really really horrible existence on you, but its a choice with like free will or some such shit." Also Galen Trollbanes sudden about face while being undead leaves much to be desired, oh those people in Stromgarde are his friends, but now, Ummm he serves Sylvanas? Either he has no free will or undead robs you of your sense of morality. Also not being allowed to work against them is for all practical purposes robbing one of free will. "If you do anything we don't like. We will destroy you or worse!" Wow some choice.

I am stating raising the dead are fundamentally evil, and literally the Forsaken can't survive without that. The alliance doesn't need warlocks, the Forsake does need necromancy.

Orcs have not taken over any human Kingdom. And Humans are decedent from robots who aren't native to this world, obviously humans don't belong here and should leave.

Being descended of something makes you an inheritor of that something. My father was a man, I am his descendant but obviously since I am different than my father I don't inherit his stuff upon his death? The hell are you smoking?

Also the fall of Stormwind begs to differ from the 1st and 2nd war. More over what happened to Theramore. And their desires for Gilneas. Being unsuccessful in their attempts doesn't absolve them from trying.

so good that they lead the burning legion to countless worlds as they fled, leading to the deaths of billions of innocents in their wake.

Do we actually know that that has happened or have we merely extrapolated that? More over, can one be at fault for what a killer chasing them does?

Darkspear do none of thay pyramid human sacrifices rituals etc. Although trolls are more native to Azeroth then humans, gnomes and Dwarves

They are all equally native, in that they come from there. Orcs are definitively not, and Forsaken are maybe in a gray area depending on the morality of necromancy.

[Deleted]

The Horde is not evil. Just a lot more complicated. There are outlyers on both ends. Orcish Honor can be interpreted as warmongering and bloodthirsty to the guys on the other end. But so is the reaction of the alliance. Hell, the ones that are actually more realisticly written.
There would be a huge group of humans (esp) pissed about the Horde. Let's not forget, the 1st War is not that long ago if you think about it. ~20 Years is not that much for people to forget how many people the horde killed just in the first few years. How many people lost relatives because of them.
No human would ever forgive the horde. At least not most of them. Imo this aspect is never really talked about in the lore. People still think, Jaina is crazy. She really isnt. Hell, people would have claimed the same about her and her peace-loving past. People tend to not forgive. Hell, if you look at the world atm we see - people do not forget or forgive things that are 100 years, 200 years past.

But nobody cares about that, yes?

b2t - because blizz tends to focus the story more on horde we see more horde villains. If you would expand on the alliance lore and reactions rather than making them the protagonist of every story (keep in mind - I am talking about Protagonist and Agonist here. The Acting and the Reacting faction). As long as Blizzard doesnt do that, we will have a lot of more of the same.

Improving on this aspect would make the story telling a lot more interesting imo.

[Deleted]

It kinda is like that.
There is a Quest in Icecrown after a confused battle horde and alliance soldiers are lying scattered on the ground dieing.
The Alliance quest is to end the suffering of your own soldiers out of mercy.
The Horde quest is to kill the alliance soldiers out of spite, becasue they "mock" the horde soldiers by dieing audibly.

[Verdugo]

The Horde quest is to kill the alliance soldiers out of spite, becasue they "mock" the horde soldiers by dieing audibly.

Hey, its not their fault Alliance cant even die properly.

[Deleted]

It kinda is like that.
There is a Quest in Icecrown after a confused battle horde and alliance soldiers are lying scattered on the ground dieing.
The Alliance quest is to end the suffering of your own soldiers out of mercy.
The Horde quest is to kill the alliance soldiers out of spite, becasue they "mock" the horde soldiers by dieing audibly.

No no, the horde were misguided and misunderstood, they would never do something like that on purpose.

[Deadite]

Okay, your dead great great grandmother tells you to murder space Jesus neighbor, and you listen? I mean, in that instance than Orc's border on being retarded. Still, Demon blood, thus invasion. With Draenei being characterized as the goodest good folks since goodness was invented, that means the Orcs willingly went against what they could plainly see and followed the advice of Ghosts who at that points SUDDENLY switched gears and said "Hey guys, murder nazi'ing is A-Okay!" Okay the Orc's are downgraded from evil, to stupid and mildly evil.

Being lied too or tricked doesn't change what happened from the perspective of the native humans, dwarves, gnomes and Elves on Azeroth. From their vantage point, a portal opened and out poured demon worshiping green skinned murder nazi's. What from that perspective could one assume? Orcs are by nature either evil, or critically bad at making judgement calls.

The whole thing could have been avoided if they had told the Orcs about Kil'jaeden. He even used his own name. That would have gotten in the way using them as fodder for the Legion to wipe out while they ran away again like they have done to countless worlds before. Yeah real stand up guys the Draenei are. Hell they did not even try to fight for their own world. Velen just picked all his chums and pissed off on a space ship on the word of some alien and left his whole race to join or die. He even sent most of his own people to die in the battle of Shattrath so he could slink away and save his own ass.


Velen had wanted to abandon the city, to have it standing empty when the orcs descended. Wanted to save as many draenei lives as he could. But Larohir, the quick-speaking, intelligent general who had succeeded Restalaan after the lattcr's murder, had convinced him it would not work.

"If there is an insufficient number of draenei to slaughter," Larohir had said, his voice soft and compassionate but yet hard as steel, "then the lust that consumes them will not even be sated temporarily. They will still hunger and catch our scent while it is new, and track us down. Those who flee will die. They must believe that they have slain most of us. And in order for them to believe that... it must be true."

Velen had stared in horror. "You would have me send my people to knowingly be slaughtered?"

"All but a handful of us know what we fled on Argus," said Larohir. "We remember it. We remember what Kil'jaeden did, what happened to our people. We would - we will - happily die to preserve even a handful of our race uncorruptcd."

Velen had looked down then, his heart aching. "If the orcs believe they have slain us, except for a trivial handful, then Kil'jaeden will be satisfied. He will depart."

They really had to twist his arm to send most of his own people to die. He clearly agonized over the decision for the whole 2 seconds.

[Irian]

No. Horde is chaotic, Alliance is lawful. Both are good.

I wouldn't call any faction that stood up against eldritch horrors, world-destroying dragons, the king of the dead and two of the chief demon lords of the Legion evil by any stretch of the imagination. Horde hates the Alliance, but otherwise does right by Azeroth or at least tries. At worst, the undead could be considered neutral, but I'm unwilling to call them evil because they're willing to help save Azeroth and have proven to be reliable allies.

[Theodarzna]

The whole thing could have been avoided if they had told the Orcs about Kil'jaeden. He even used his own name. That would have gotten in the way using them as fodder for the Legion to wipe out while they ran away again like they have done to countless worlds before. Yeah real stand up guys the Draenei are. Hell they did not even try to fight for their own world. Velen just picked all his chums and pissed off on a space ship on the word of some alien and left his whole race to join or die. He even sent most of his own people to die in the battle of Shattrath so he could slink away and save his own ass.

Exercising poor judgement that gets yourself killed is a few degrees less evil than exercising poor judgement that gets you to kill others.

Acts done to survive? Possibly a bad call. Listening to ghosts that tell you to murder people, drink demon blood and invade other planets, or worse just some guy telling you to do that? Yeah....

They really had to twist his arm to send most of his own people to die. He clearly agonized over the decision for the whole 2 seconds.

Call is a call, that is considerably more judgement and thinking than either "A ghost told me to!" or "Some guy nobody has ever met told us to!"

[Friendlyimmolation]

Okay, your dead great great grandmother tells you to murder space Jesus neighbor

Try your dead child, your wife, your parents, your best friend who died in a accident last winter etc.

and you listen? I mean, in that instance than Orc's border on being retarded. Still, Demon blood, thus invasion. With Draenei being characterized as the goodest good folks since goodness was invented, that means the Orcs willingly went against what they could plainly see and followed the advice of Ghosts who at that points SUDDENLY switched gears and said "Hey guys, murder nazi'ing is A-Okay!" Okay the Orc's are downgraded from evil, to stupid and mildly evil.

You seem to have forgotten that the Orcs overall did not know anything about the Draenei. The Draenei were extrememly isolationist to the point where they sometimes traded with the orcs and only Durotan and Orgrim had ever been near or even inside a Draenei city. Unlike the humans who lived on a comparably peaceful world the Orcs lived on a planet where everyone was constantly trying to kill or enslave them, they didn't have the opportunity to be as advanced as some of the other races.

That....

Is incidental, being convenient later on doesn't excuse what happened here. Doesn't change the material facts that Orc's invaded and by every rational thought should have been rightly exterminated post 2nd war, and the Alliance nations would have been justified in doing so. Their actions up to that point are not washed away by them being useful later on for something. Orc's are still responsible for countless lives lost,

The night elves have killed more than the Orcs did by summoning the Legion, and they didn't all get killed off by the other races, that they later beat back the demons should be incidental no?

Thrall for all his written in wisdom seems utterly, painfully, lacking in the wisdom department to understand the utter absurdities of his nation/race/cultures attitudes in the world they find themselves in.

I suggest reading Cycle of Hatred, the humans were starting the fights there, not the orcs.

Does not change why they are there. Do the Orc's not teach their own history? Do they not know about the 1st and 2nd war?

More over the inheritable nature of that demon taint would be cause to just simply wipe them away completely. Again, after the second war the Human States would have been completely justified in just simply ending the Orcish kind right then and there. Those children by every right are blessed to have even been born in the mud at all, the Mud is too good for them, they literally don't deserve even that.

So you try to rationalize child slavery and handwave it away saying those children dont even deserve to be slaves? congratulations you emulated the humans the orcs rightfully hate. Paladins have more sense then you do.

They fought as much for their own survival and material gain than they did any supposed noble cause.

They fought to save their world.

I've never read any peace of lore that says they "gave them," anything. I do note the Orc's killed a Demi-God, and never really made any amends for that.

Read the Shattering. And the Night elves started that conflict, Grom even yelled at cenarious that they were free willed and were not slaves to demons and were ignored. Cenarious later through the emerald dream saw Grom Kill Mannoroth and watched the orcs fight on Hyjal and understood and forgave them.

Undead are by their vary nature, not supposed to exist. It is basically an abomination unto itself.

According to who? You? The Forsaken say otherwise know who also thought like you did? The Scarlet crusade, and evil faction.

Yes, Killing someone and then making them undead and giving them the choice to be "One of us or... Idk, probably be killed by others. I know we killed you and are forcing this really really horrible existence on you, but its a choice with like free will or some such shit

I suggest actually leveling a Forsaken, many see being raised as a blessing and a escape from death and a 2nd chance at life, Not a lot of people want to die.

Also Galen Trollbanes sudden about face while being undead leaves much to be desired, oh those people in Stromgarde are his friends, but now, Ummm he serves Sylvanas? Either he has no free will or undead robs you of your sense of morality.

Blizzard stated no mind control is used by the Forsaken so don't try to start that argument up, The page says Galen was completely humbled in Undeath and cares little for his past.

Also not being allowed to work against them is for all practical purposes robbing one of free will.

If you turn around and say, "thanks for ressing me, now im going to try to kill you all" You still have free will, you were just stupid and the forsaken will take action against you.

I am stating raising the dead are fundamentally evil, and literally the Forsaken can't survive without that. The alliance doesn't need warlocks, the Forsake does need necromancy.

The Alliance uses warlocks Gladly. And Forsaken who stayed forsaken after being resurrected are there by choice, they don't care what you think of it.

Being descended of something makes you an inheritor of that something

Orcs born native to Azeroth do belong there then What are you even smoking where you can say humans belong on Azeroth despite their ancestors not being native where orcs dont belong on Azeroth because their parents weren't native?

Also the fall of Stormwind begs to differ from the 1st and 2nd war. More over what happened to Theramore. And their desires for Gilneas. Being unsuccessful in their attempts doesn't absolve them from trying.

They didn't steal stormwind, they razed it, Theramore was a legitimate military target and deserved to be destroyed. And the Forsaken are capturing Gilnaes not the orcs.

Do we actually know that that has happened or have we merely extrapolated that? More over, can one be at fault for what a killer chasing them does?

Yes, read Velen's short story, it is brought up.

They are all equally native, in that they come from there. Orcs are definitively not, and Forsaken are maybe in a gray area depending on the morality of necromancy.

Nope, they were made by machines made by Aliens, they have just as much right as orcs who are also from from titans. You want to talk about the morality of Forsaken and how it applies to wether they deserve to live in their kingdom or not? If Forsaken could die of laughter that would be the way to do it.

[Theodarzna]

As a secondary point, Have the Orcs done anything that could be called contrition for the 1st and 2nd war?

I will state....
1) Actions done for self preservation do not count. So joining forces to stop a greater threat to both their survival isn't exactly contrition.
2) Examples in real world of contrition are say, Germany making payments for damages to families victimized by various German national policies during the Second World War. Or the US Senate voting to compensate Japanese people and their descendants whom were interred in internment camps.

As a matter of just general fact, as the Horde as an entity done anything non-hostile towards Alliance countries or peoples that wasn't motivated by self interest or forced upon them by neutral parties? Even Thrall, the messiah and Chris Metzen perfect child is to my knowledge yet to admit any form of culpability on his peoples part or even some admission that wrongs were committed.