Alliance - Good/Heroes, Horde - Bad/Villains?

[Aquamonkey]

That's because he's no longer human, and no longer free, he is bound to the Lich King and serves him like any other Scourge Undead.

No. Arthas chooses to follow orders like the Cult of the Damned. The Scourge have no choice, they are locked inside while their bodies act without their will.

You can still be controlled and have an inner voice. Unless you have proof of something other than that. How many games, shows, movies are there where someone is control, but their little voice comes out and warns the protagonist that they're being controlled? It's way more common than your point of view, for sure. It even happens in WoW with some quests where people are being controlled by the Scourge through passive undeath. That dynamic faint slip of their inner voice before being controlled once more begging them to kill them or run away, or even thank them from being released from the Lich King's control.

Yes, that can happen in other stories. But that's not what happened with Arthas. We were given the info from his PoV, the voice of reason and humanity was separate as was the voice of Ner'zhul. From Arthas' own PoV, he acted of his own volition and enjoyed doing the LK's bidding. In contrast when we see Sylvanas, her body is bound to the will of the LK despite all her anger and hatred. Sylvanas was just a passenger.

[Friendlyimmolation]

That's because he's no longer human, and no longer free, he is bound to the Lich King and serves him like any other Scourge Undead.

Except that he is still shown to have free will and thought as per his book. Why is it so hard for you to admit that Arthas was an evil prick?

You can still be controlled and have an inner voice. Unless you have proof of something other than that. How many games, shows, movies are there where someone is control, but their little voice comes out and warns the protagonist that they're being controlled?

Other movies/ games do not apply To arthas and the fact that he was not mind controlled.

That dynamic faint slip of their inner voice before being controlled once more begging them to kill them or run away, or even thank them from being released from the Lich King's control.

Of course they thank you when you kill them, they are trapped in their body unable to act while it kills things under the direction of the Lich king. None of these were Arthas however.

I'm not confused, though. I'm rather certain, even with the quotes that were presented. If anything, the reinforce the idea that I have.

Your idea that he was mind controlled even though nothing from that book shows he was?

I'm actually surprised that you don't see it... Why don't you try rereading it with my perspect that I pointed out. It makes perfect sense, then.

Youre surprised I don't disregard lore and instead look at it from a personal opinion?

I'm not ignoring it, as a matter of fact, I pointed out why my point stand with those quotes. You just refuse to see my point.

Because you havent had a shred of proof and instead are trying to handwave away the quotes that prove you wrong.

I mean just look at the ICC raid and 5-mans. They want to help and do, until brought back under control again. Control is the primary factor of the Scourge, it is predominate that there has to be a Lich King in the word in order to maintain it.

so are you trying to say Ner'zhul mind controlled Arthas to kill him? or are you trying to compare Arthas losing his soul to the people who were killed, and raised back into the Lich King's control?

You can use literally any wiki or just take a run though dungeons or the raid. It's really that simple. Quest though the Plaguelands or read up on Sylvanas liberation story about escaping the Lich King's control. Even the old quests like the battle of Darrowshire mention it as well as all the quests to put spirits to rest so that the Lich King cannot control them... The lore is littered with references all over the game about the Lich King's Passive control over the Scourge.

If it is so simple then why does not a single one of those sources say Arthas was mind controlled?

If there's proof of manipulation on your part of me taking an order from you, then you are at fault as well. For Arthas, both his passive undeath and wielding Frostmourne can function in this manner. That is the proof. All of the Scourge are controlled by the Lich King, it's everywhere in the lore.

except nothing shows Arthas was mind controlled on the contrary he was shown to do everything willingly. Never was he in his book , shown from his perspective, to be acting against his will or forced to do anything against his will.

You need proof that he doesn't, in fact, control Arthas

On the contrary You need proof that he was controlled, His book, his wiki page, WCIII show he was never mind controlled. So you need to do some research. What you bleive or how you see it does not matter pull up a link where it explicitly shows arthas being mind Controlled. The entire book about Arthas never shows him once acting against his will and even enjoying what he does such as torturing Sylvanas, or raising his Horse.

[Deleted]

Horde = ugly, smelly
Alliance = not hideous looking; personal hygiene

Excuse but smell a Dwarf and drop dead and never come again with such a ridiculous argument ever again

[Zuben]

Horde's problem is that its mix of cultures can't adjust perfectly to peaceful existence, while all Alliance cultures can; even worgen are savage only in combat. Orcs live in a warrior culture, goblins love machines of destruction, and Forsaken are Forsaken. While Alliance races are capable of foul deeds, societally its the Horde that's more likely to spill over.

[Deleted]

Horde's problem is that its mix of cultures can't adjust perfectly to peaceful existence, while all Alliance cultures can; even worgen are savage only in combat. Orcs live in a warrior culture, goblins love machines of destruction, and Forsaken are Forsaken. While Alliance races are capable of foul deeds, societally its the Horde that's more likely to spill over.

Right, thats why Alliance had concentration camps? Arthas? Humans abusing orcs?

[anaxie]

If Arthas was Ner'zhuls mind slave.

Why would he destroy his spirit and take it all for himself.

Oh right Arthas was just a prick.

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Right, thats why Alliance had concentration camps? Arthas? Humans abusing orcs?

Don't forget the extermination of the Blood Elves that the Kirin tor Allowed....

TWICE

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Not sure how you get that from "Willing to Comply". Willing means he has choice, free will. If Ner'zhul said "You should have a Coke" Arthas was like "Fuck yeah...I'd love a Coke". Not "Whatever the master wants" or even "Well, I prefer Pepsi...but ok...I'll get a Coke". There may have been a part of him that wanted to get a Pepsi instead...but he shut that shit down.

Arthas was under his own control...not Ner'zhul's.

i Would fucking pay 50$ to view this cutscene if blizzard made it.
EDIT: I'm still reading it with their voices in my head and laughing omg

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If that's the case, then why did the Undead attack Gilneas, which wasn't even Alliance at the time?

Because the Forsaken were betrayed by the Gilnaens in the THIRD war when they sat with their top hats and monocles atop their wall and spit on the refugees fleeing the Scourge.

Consider it justice. Them joining the Allaince and coming into WoW doesn't absolve Genn of his actions in the 2nd / 3rd wars. He was a pompous asshole.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Because the Forsaken were betrayed by the Gilnaens in the THIRD war when they sat with their top hats and monocles atop their wall and spit on the refugees fleeing the Scourge.

Consider it justice. Them joining the Allaince and coming into WoW doesn't absolve Genn of his actions in the 2nd / 3rd wars. He was a pompous asshole.
Last edited by anaxie; Today at 07:15 PM.

To top it all off, Garrosh reignited this hatred and got the Forsaken so enraged at the Gilnaens they were throwing themselves over each other to kill them.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

You need proof that he doesn't, in fact, control Arthas. All Scourge are controlled by the Lich King, none of them can resist him, moments of willpower show and then vanish under the powerful control of the Lich King, but in the end, they all do as he wishes. There is no choice or free will for the members of the Scourge when it comes to the dominance that the Lich King has over them.

The proof has already been provided...you just refuse to see it.

He forced the sentiment down. That voice would be silenced, somehow. He could not afford to permit the softness to grow. It was like gangrene; it would eat him, if he let it.

You need to provide evidence that he was, in actual fact, under complete control of the Lich King.

[anaxie]

Peace isn't a need. It's a must. Garrosh was more than a dick, he was evil incarnate. There really isn't a grey in Warcraft. You're either good, or evil. Jaina in MoP went from the most good character to a very evil character. But isn't as evil as Garrosh considering she hasn't started a full out blown war yet.

There isn't a grey character? fucking Hello

Illidan, Sylvanas

Jaina isn't evil.

Lets just fucking vaporize and turn all your loved ones, family, and hometown into powder.
Jaina evil she got tiered of being stepped on by fucking dickbag orcs even after she sacrificed her FATHER for them.

Lets not even pretend Garrosh didn't know Jainas character. He spent time with thrall, Jaina came to Org on several occasions with Garrosh present. He exploited her vulnerability. And instead of laying down and taking it she had a revelation where shes lke.

"you know what. FUCK YOU. I'll make you beg me for peace now."

And thanks to Thralls begging Orgrimmar survived. Does she still hate them? Fuck yeah guess you could say now shes a true Proudmoore like her father. Which mind you was one of the most celebrated commanders and leaders of the Grand Alliance.

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To top it all off, Garrosh reignited this hatred and got the Forsaken so enraged at the Gilnaens they were throwing themselves over each other to kill them.

Yeah.

Also as for people saying Forsaken are evil no.

They have claimed Lorderon since they are the ones who used to live there and wrested control of the area from the Scarlet Crusade, The Burning Legion, the Scourge. They also are backed by Blood Elves in their rebuilt kingdom to the North.

Stormwind has no claims to Lorderon.

That said. Huge armies of Alliance are everywhere especially in hillsbrad. which is often ignored because people are completely fucking ignorant of whats going on in the story outside shared quest zones like Barrens hurr hurr.

Sylvanas is putting Lorderon on fucking lockdown and guess what. She has a right too. Stay out of my lands.

If the Alliance werent such genocidal dicks maybe the Forsaken and Blood Elves never would of joined the Horde and their would be no Horde power in the Eastern Kingdoms but alas. There must always be a bigot.

Like NO ONE faced the dire situation that the forsaken and I suppose Blood Elves has EVER.

Human starting zone. Oh no our people we fucked over have turned bandit on us! And Spiders!!! in D-D-D-DUSKWOOD!
Dwarves are just fucking drinking beer and a beating the shit out of the black dwarves because of some racial issues.
Night Elves nature fuck yeah! <Got considerably better post cata>

Stormwinds problem on their doorstep is fucking murlocs and gnolls. The blood Elves have a goddamn scourge stronghold outside their front door and the Forsaken well. Fought everything.

[Keyblader]

They are both good/ both bad. People have always said kids play the Alliance, when in fact most younger kids play horde because they want to be "the bad guys." It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.

[hulkgor]

Silly question to ask if you actually play the game (since 2008 no less).

Both factions are "Grey". Good characters, bad characters, good actions, evil deeds... and consider the opposite the enemy, for various reasons.

Neither faction is 'good' or 'evil'.

[anaxie]

ALSO for Allaince being not good unless people are dense.

The Archibishop of Stormwind. Yeah that dude.

Leader of the Twight Cult

You know the Archdruid in Darnassus. Staghelm? kind of important dude.

Yeah him and some followers are trying to incinerate the World Tree because fuck everybody.

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They are both good/ both bad. People have always said kids play the Alliance, when in fact most younger kids play horde because they want to be "the bad guys." It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.

Horde have hot Blood elfs and goblins blow shit up.

Thats why people roll horde.

We also have the best Hamburgers we even have a whole zone of grass for them to graze in.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Thats why people roll horde.

And Forsaken who don't take crap from no one.

[anaxie]

Horde's problem is that its mix of cultures can't adjust perfectly to peaceful existence, while all Alliance cultures can; even worgen are savage only in combat. Orcs live in a warrior culture, goblins love machines of destruction, and Forsaken are Forsaken. While Alliance races are capable of foul deeds, societally its the Horde that's more likely to spill over.

The Alliance has betrayed itself more times then I can count all the way back with fucking Perenolde to now.

The Horde is just like band of brothers and they all love eachother or have just sexy sexual tension like Sylvanas and Lorth'remar.

We all saw it in Siege. The teasing was so cute put a ring the dark ladys finger already dawg.

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And Forsaken who don't take crap from no one.

The Forsaken took their capital by conquest from the legion / Scourge.

Humans are like ITS MINE.

Forsaken all like fuck y'all. GL getting past Arathi no bro this bitch is on lockdown.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

The Forsaken took their capital by conquest from the legion / Scourge.

Humans are like ITS MINE.

Forsaken all like fuck y'all. GL getting past Arathi no bro this bitch is on lockdown.

Not to mention that most of the Forsaken were, in actual fact, citizens of Lordaeron. All they have done is taken back their homeland.

[Zulkhan]

It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl.

I'm tempted to put this in my sig.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I'm tempted to put this in my sig.

I think I might need to as well. I threw my head back and laughed, as I was going 100 mph in my neighborhood running over people while I checked my phone.

[anaxie]

I think I might need to as well. I threw my head back and laughed, as I was going 100 mph in my neighborhood running over people while I checked my phone.

i think your avatar is evil enough.

[Friendlyimmolation]

i think your avatar is evil enough.

Ramsay is the most gentle of people!

[purebalance]

Don't know about good and evil - but what it obviously comes down to is:

Horde = ugly, smelly
Alliance = not hideous looking; personal hygiene

Alliance have plumbing. I don't think Horde even stop walking to take a dump. They just let it fall as they walk.