Battle.Net Website Update, Blue Posts, EU Regionals Disqualifications, HeroStorm #5

[Eleccybubb]

I'm having a good chuckle at people trying to say MoP was a good expansion. Yeah insane amount of dailies and 14 months of no content is "good".

Why? Because they have an opinion?. And I highly doubt people thought the drought was the good part of MoP.

[Deleted]

Because MoP was the time when VP weren't yet entirely removed, but they were locked behind millions of dailies, as they were useless without reputation. New race/class were baseline expectation from expansions. Scenarios and challenge modes were just another difficulty mode for existing content (scenarios copied overworld areas, and later we had Heroic Scenarios even), most Scenarios had some super crappy mechanics (escort of super slow panda, barrel rolling, etc.), though some weren't that bad. When scenarios were robbed of all "trash" loot they became just that - utter boredom. That's exactly "rose-tinted glasses" you speak about.
Challenge mode completely changed they way istance were played. Scenarios were easy and fast content with no mechanics at all, and yes, they were new, not just a new difficulty.
New race and class is not baseline for every expansion. In fact, MoP was the first expansion to have BOTH. WoD has neither.
I've got no pink googles on kid. Maybe you should remove yours, since a lot of vanilla/bc player are telling you that MoP was good, unlike what you said in your first post

Yeah, when they added "happy island" (which coincided with nuking Lotus pandas), noone had problems. Apparently there was some Barrens stuff, but Blizzard kept most of it only for 1 patch, so can't say as I didn't play during that time after daily madness.
You're paranoic. They added Timless Isle for the same reason they added the 5.1 daily hub, the Thunder Isle in 5.2 and the revolution in the barrens in 5.3: new daily content each patch. The abc of every respctable mmorpg. Keep your complottist ideas in your closet

I didn't say Cata talents were good. But they were million times better than what we have from MoP till now.
Million time better than what we have now, in my Language, means good. And they were not, Cata talents were the wrost ever seen

That was just blue post excuse for what happened with them. There was a lot of class personalization aspect, those "simple increases" were fun as they directly increased combat capabilities and I could write whole book on each class back then. You were nearly "classless" without spending talent points, and they were like building blocks. Compare it with "talents" of MoP/WoD. You say it was dull, but it is exactly this which added more depth to character progression. Visiting trainer for new spells, getting new spell rank (without losing efficiency), getting grimoires for your warlock pets, etc. Compare it with current shallow model. I prefer my CRPGs not removing stats, talents, skills, etc. for the sake of Action/Arcade adrenaline-loaded crowd.
It wasn't an excuse. If you find fun spending point on mandatory talents that directly increase your performance without any mechanics or effort behind it, good for you. I didn't find it fun, and most of the community didn't, as I still remember the whine on the official forums during Cata.

Also, you blantantly decided to ignore the rest of my argument where I explained why that system could not be mantained. But I guess that beside ranting for everything you can't do much

And with this, I'm done. I don't intend to waste anymore time talking with someone so biased. Go play on provate servers or change game, leave WoW to players that actually wants to see it evolve.

[Romanthony]

Cant believe noone pointed out the HOTS link, is wrong, as it takes you to the diablofans site :P

[Eleccybubb]

Cant believe noone pointed out the HOTS link, is wrong, as it takes you to the diablofans site :P

Wow. Just had to go and spoil it all didn't you?. HMMM?!

[Gadzooks]

No it wasn't. Vanilla player here.

Another vanilla player here. I loved MoP - great story, great setting, there were a lot of dailies, but as I wasn't raiding formally, they were great as things to do every time I logged on. I kept busy on 7 alts through the longest content drought so far, and really...other than being ready for new content, I wasn't unhappy. I was gearing up alts, running LFR, doing professions, doing PvP, I even have pet battles a try. I hunted treasures, because they were actually usable as they were account bound. I did arch, and got some good finds.

That's the key to a good expansion - everyone is kept busy and happy. Raiders were happy, solo players were happy, pvp was happy (for the most part, the bots got really out of control at the end), and I could log on and pick from all kinds of content to do, every day, so it was hard to get bored. Sick of the timeless isle? Go dragon racing, or do the Isle of Thunder dailies, and do the vault, or try and get a dinosaur mount, or finish off the expansion quests in Karasang.

I love this "What did it have that WoD doesn't" question - it had choices, and a lot of them, and it had fun - and it was enough to keep 6 million people playing through a long content drought. WoD didn't even make one quarter without people bailing.

[ElDoorO]

Mid-Wrath player here (I think I MAY have installed BC and said "fuck this" for whatever reason, might be because I was into another game at the time and didn't have time for both). MoP from ToT onward was reasonable. MoP from release to ToT SUCKED.
14 months of SoO killed my care for raiding.
I think people are just being out-right asses about MoP though. "MoP sucked" != "100% of MoP sucked". It means that overall MoP sucked.
I still can't believe people fell for the "TI no flying was great therefore an *entire expansion is going to be great!" line.
I'm still disappointed by the lack-luster MW Monk Mastery being healing sphere's. It's just.. stupid.

Raiding and LFR-wise I think it was *perfect*. I think WoD LFR sucks horribly. It's far too easy and cheats the player from the experience.
The questing was "ok". I think Wrath questing was *amazing*, as far as storytelling goes, and am still butt hurt about them removing Wrath Gate. I think questing was *smoother* since Cata but story has been blargh since then.

WW monks were in a reasonable spot PvP wise but now they are trash.

Wrath >>> MoP>>WoD=Cata

Just my opinion.

Back when Vanilla was out, I was playing EQ I believe. I remember thinking I don't want to start another MMO, I don't have time for that.
The grinds of old school MMO's were insane. WoW has *nothing* on them. And I will never go through that again.

[Ielenia]

New race/class were baseline expectation from expansions.

Just because a feature is "expected" to be added, doesn't mean it's not a feature added.

Scenarios and challenge modes were just another difficulty mode for existing content (scenarios copied overworld areas, and later we had Heroic Scenarios even),

Azjol-Nerub and Ahn'kahet shared the same dungeon model and textures. Utgarde Pinnacle and Utgarde Keep had the exact same dungeon models and textures. Drak'Tharon Keep and Gun'Drak had the same dungeon textures and models. Halls of Lighting and Halls of Stone? Same dungeon models and textures. How about Trial of the Champion and Trial of the Crusader? And that's just Wrath.

Now onto BC: All four Auchindoun instances (Shettek Halls, Auchenai Crypts, Shadow Labyrinth, Mana Tombs) had the exact same models and textures. All four of Zangarmarsh instances (Slave Pens, Underbog, The Steamvault and Serpentshrine Cavern) all used the same models and textures. How about Hellfire instances? Ramparts, Blood Furnace, Shattered Halls and MAgtheridon's Lair, all shared the same textures and models. Do I need to say anything about MEchanar, Botanica, Arcatraz and The Eye?

most Scenarios had some super crappy mechanics (escort of super slow panda, barrel rolling, etc.),

Like we didn't have quests in every single expansion and even during the vanilla game where we would have to escort a slow NPC. As for barrel rolling? That's just your opinion. I found them entertaining.

I didn't say Cata talents were good. But they were million times better than what we have from MoP till now.

Except they were not. With Cata talents you basically only had two options: you're 'ok', or you suck. You're 'ok' if you picked what the cookie-cutter build for your spec tells you to, and you 'suck' if you picked anything else other than what the cookie-cutter build tells you to. With MoP, you can literally pick what you want to adapt yourself to different situations. You can even change individual talents without having to respect, and without having to undo all the higher-level talent choices.

That was just blue post excuse for what happened with them. There was a lot of class personalization aspect, those "simple increases" were fun as they directly increased combat capabilities and I could write whole book on each class back then. You were nearly "classless" without spending talent points, and they were like building blocks.

Except the talent trees weren't supposed to be your character, but a complement to your character. I don't know what you see it as fun, but I really couldn't find anything fun at all in leveling up and going "Woo-hoo! Spending this talent point adds another 1% to Haste!" It was dull. They were just meaningless, unnecessary stepping stones to get to the active abilities. It was only interesting when I would get another attack. Today, though, when I reach one of the levels for a new talent, I get to actually choose something that has an immediate, meaningful impact on my gameplay.

[Murderdoll]

MoP was a good expansion, let down by MAJOR short commings.

The raids were very good, I mean, people were likening Throne of Thunder to Ulduar. The story was very good. The architecture, the zones, class balance, mechanics. Fantastic.

What destroyed it for everyone? Sitting in Seige of Fucking Orgrimaar for 14 months and the insane daily grinds.

If ToT was 1 month longer and Seige ended 3 months earlier, it would rank right up there as one of the better expansions. But because there is such a terrible taste in everyones mouths, it is forever condemned.

[Shiroh]

I'm having a good chuckle at people trying to say MoP was a good expansion. Yeah insane amount of dailies and 14 months of no content is "good".

14 months of no content was a flaw of WoD and not MoP. How can you blame MoP for them deciding to redo everything about WoD in mid-development.

And I won't go into the dailies debate.

[Shudder]

14 months of no content was a flaw of WoD and not MoP. How can you blame MoP for them deciding to redo everything about WoD in mid-development.

And I won't go into the dailies debate.

That's not how it works. You can blame the current 14 months of no content on WoD.

[Gardrenn]

ITT: 95% of players on mmo-champ news threads are beta-vanilla raiders. Also 100% of vanilla raiders love mop as the BESTEST xpac evar...ya sure. Lets face it, MOP was a shit bucket that stunk just a tad less than the other two shit buckets cata and wod.

[Ielenia]

Lets face it, MOP was a shit bucket that stunk just a tad less than the other two shit buckets cata and wod.

Random poster posts his own opinion as fact. News at 11.

On a more serious note, though, MoP didn't "suck". Sure, it had the 'drought' that was all those months of Siege of Orgrimmar, and the "big bad bunch of dailies" but that only lasted for the first tier. After that it was smooth sailing. And the rest of the expansion was pretty good. A new race, a new class, beautiful setting, awesome music, interesting backstory, an interesting developing storyline, etc.

[Gardrenn]

Random poster posts his own opinion as fact. News at 11.

On a more serious note, though, MoP didn't "suck". Sure, it had the 'drought' that was all those months of Siege of Orgrimmar, and the "big bad bunch of dailies" but that only lasted for the first tier. After that it was smooth sailing. And the rest of the expansion was pretty good. A new race, a new class, beautiful setting, awesome music, interesting backstory, an interesting developing storyline, etc.

A race almost nobody plays, a class nobody plays, dailies at the beginning of the xpac that nobody liked, the 2nd half the xpac was this drought you are talking about. Otherwise ya smooth sailing. So basically what I'm seeing is that you liked ToT, that's nice why don't you tell us more how this isn't just your opinion given as "fact."

[Ielenia]

A race almost nobody plays, a class nobody plays, dailies at the beginning of the xpac that nobody liked, the 2nd half the xpac was this drought you are talking about. Otherwise ya smooth sailing. So basically what I'm seeing is that you liked ToT, that's nice why don't you tell us more how this isn't just your opinion given as "fact."

Looks like your bias is too ingrained in you to even consider the possibility that MoP had good things in it. And I'm not presenting my opinion as facts. The visuals of MoP were indeed beautiful, overall, as well as the music. As for the 'new race and class nobody plays', first, you're wrong. People do play that race and that class. They may not be as represented as the Hunters or Blood Elves, but some people do like the added race and class.

But if all that you got from my post was "I like ToT" then we have nothing more to discuss, as you apparently didn't even bother to apply 'reading comprehension' to what I wrote.

[Shiroh]

That's not how it works. You can blame the current 14 months of no content on WoD.

Yes, I can. I just did.

[Shudder]

Yes, I can. I just did.

Learn to read.

[Darknessvamp]

That's not how it works. You can blame the current 14 months of no content on WoD.

Well considering it was WoD they were working on in that period and that they even said they probably wouldn't do another content patch in the gap between the last patch of MoP and WoD's release because they were working on WoD and were even unsure if they were even going to do a prelaunch event this time.... Then I'm pretty sure you can blame the content drought on WoD.

[Shudder]

Well considering it was WoD they were working on in that period and that they even said they probably wouldn't do another content patch in the gap between the last patch of MoP and WoD's release because they were working on WoD and were even unsure if they were even going to do a prelaunch event this time.... Then I'm pretty sure you can blame the content drought on WoD.

That's not how it works. When you look back and judge an expansion on its pros and cons, the gap at the end of the expansion is included. You don't blame the next expansion, that makes zero sense. You don't see people saying cata was shit because it cause icc to last a year. You blame wrath.

[Ferocity]

Azjol-Nerub and Ahn'kahet shared the same dungeon model and textures. Utgarde Pinnacle and Utgarde Keep had the exact same dungeon models and textures. Drak'Tharon Keep and Gun'Drak had the same dungeon textures and models. Halls of Lighting and Halls of Stone? Same dungeon models and textures. How about Trial of the Champion and Trial of the Crusader? And that's just Wrath.

We don't speak about art assets. Scenarios were instanced part of isolated overworld locations, just with a bit different mobs. ToC was overall bad though, no excuse for that :)

Like we didn't have quests in every single expansion and even during the vanilla game where we would have to escort a slow NPC. As for barrel rolling? That's just your opinion. I found them entertaining.

I speak about that part where you needed to roll 5 barrels to NPC. Was mildly etnertaining only 1st time.

Except they were not. With Cata talents you basically only had two options: you're 'ok', or you suck. You're 'ok' if you picked what the cookie-cutter build for your spec tells you to, and you 'suck' if you picked anything else other than what the cookie-cutter build tells you to. With MoP, you can literally pick what you want to adapt yourself to different situations. You can even change individual talents without having to respect, and without having to undo all the higher-level talent choices.

That was a long debate in many threads. Point is "you suck/you are ok" was always coming from those who just copy-pasted guides and used them as divine scriptures instead of using their own heads. And of course they couldn't see any other build bu only rad-only build, neglecting other sides of the game (PvPing, farming, soloing, etc.) - granted it was harder to make interesting variations with Cata talents than with WotLK talents, but it was huge difference with MoP+, when you can as well not choose any talent and do mostly fine.

Except the talent trees weren't supposed to be your character, but a complement to your character. I don't know what you see it as fun, but I really couldn't find anything fun at all in leveling up and going "Woo-hoo! Spending this talent point adds another 1% to Haste!" It was dull. They were just meaningless, unnecessary stepping stones to get to the active abilities.

They were always fun for CRPG players. Getting new active abilities on other hand was a bit dull - it is more of a perk of Action games. Cata added heavy Arcade elements to rotation (procs for almost all classses), and MoP subverted it even more with walls of texts describing talents' "procs of procs".
And that's exactly what keeps people playing games like this - getting additional +1(%) here and there - be it from talents, from gear or from somewhere else. Nerfing leveling and removing talent trees made a lot of damage to character progression.

[Darknessvamp]

That's not how it works. When you look back and judge an expansion on its pros and cons, the gap at the end of the expansion is included. You don't blame the next expansion, that makes zero sense. You don't see people saying cata was shit because it cause icc to last a year. You blame wrath.

Well I don't personally blame the game for content gaps, rather I blame Blizzard and it's frankly terrible project planning.