What do they want to do with Retribution ?

[Strear]

I don't get it. This post may be in the Paladin area, but I'm asking you too, you who play some other classes/specs.

I often have the feeling that we're not bad, but less good than the other melee in most people minds. Is it really factual ? Doesn't the fact to just consider that " It is said among the community that Retribution is not good ", curb the possibility of the class to simply emerge and demonstrate its possibilities (sure, you won't have the possibility to change your mind about them if you simply don't give them the chance to show you what they can do) ?

I even heard " Paladins are healers, no fighters ". In the lore, from Uther to Tirion, paladins are mostly holy fighters (then retribution), and great heroes of the Alliance. Many of us have to heal to be taken in consideration, keeping Retribution for random bgs, some kind of personal garden in fact, but by no means taken seriously in consideration from a competitive point of view.

The few times we " shined ", I had the feeling we were that student in the back of the classroom who suddenly had good results, but that the rest of the classroom got angry because that was not normal. Like some kind of sub-caste that has to remain in an average performing condition, not more.

You, who wouldn't actually take a retribution paladin in your team or roster, what change would be needed to the spec to have your mind changed ?

I don't understand Blizzard approach either ... what do they expect and intend ?

[ItachiZaku]

Hit people with your mace. When you get low on health, pop your fag bubble and run away. <-- 95% of paladins

[Lorianus]

Hit people with your mace. When you get low on health, pop your fag bubble and run away. <-- 95% of paladins

You do know what happens when an equaly geared and skilled ret trys to go toe on toe with insert X other melee ?, you try to hit them and in return you lose up to 50% of your hp in a fraction of time.....

Most of the time you cant even stay melee range and have to rely on kiting with judgement slow, i mean really a melee who cant stay melee because he is too squishy for it is plain dumb class design.

[Beefkow]

Hit people with your mace. When you get low on health, pop your fag bubble and run away. <-- 95% of paladins

Lol, we're in WOD, auto-attacks are no longer relevant and weapon types as well.

I do miss those times, hurp durp!

[ItachiZaku]

I remember times when I'd nearly get globaled through my barkskin by a Ret. Sure, revamp them and give them a real somethingsomething, but remove bubble bitches from PVP. All i ask.

[Astynax]

I've played ret, warrior, rogue and warlock all at full conq.

Rets are that bad. Their damage outside of wings just ROFL bad I can just stand there and ignore them. Their CC is so pathetic even as a warlock I can just stand there hitting other stuff and ignore them. They cant FC, cant defend nodes, cant ninja nodes, cant reduce enemy healing, and cant pressure healers.

Warrior has passive 20% reduction in def stance, DK are tanky w self sustain, rogues have a ton of defensives, rets get blown up - go invincible - then blown up again. I can go through 1 rotation on my lock to do 70%+ of a ret's HP just from dots and drain. Theyre the only class that needs to hit something in order to get one of their few damage reductions via glyph, which is less than what the others get on demand. If a ret over extends he gets nuked super easily and has to either retreat, or get killed within the next 10 second to the next burst once divine shield drops. Divine shield is a double edged sword too: low on HP you bubble and do half damage while a healer heals you, or you heal yourself meaning all pressure is lost and they heal up too, or you just run away and be useless again. You live but all pressure on the enemy is lost

The only thing they can do is spin flags, but warriors and rogue can do that just as well

They really are that bad. They're only used as the flex DPS slot in RBGs just to do DPS and not even that good of it to begin with. Most rets you see being high on damage is straight up from padding with divine storm spam which doesnt even hit that hard to begin with

[cletis1234]

Mechanically, I'd say we're fine. I'm not a fan of Holy Power, but at least it's bearable now compared to when it was first implemented in Cata.

Ret really only needs some number tuning. More damage outside of Wings, and better Healing to offset the several healing nerfs we received that has rendered our main form of defense rather useless (not to mention the blanket 15% healing nerf in PvP that should have been reversed for Ret but Holinka responded and said he thinks there shouldn't be a reversal for Ret because "healing is too strong across the board". He actually said that...*sigh*.

Throw in some of the unique utility we lost since WOTLK, and I think we're good to go, I.E. Sacred Shield baseline, Divine Storm healing the party for 5% damage dealt, and Magic Dispel on Cleanse. Maybe make glyph of Burden of Guilt and Glyph of Templar's Verdict passives, and I think we're in a great spot and we would have a much more wholesome class that can actually do things instead of being the weak-damage-bots-with-nothing-special-up-our-sleeves that we are now.

Ret doesn't need shiny new abilities to be competitive. It needs to be able to more with it's current toolkit and it needs some more dynamic interactions with itself. Remember in WOTLK when Flash of Light critical heals would put a HoT on you if you had Sacred Shield on? Yea, cool stuff like that is what Ret needs. More synergy and more depth to it's toolkit and abilities, but absolutely not any more complexity. Depth + synergy doesn't mean more complexity.

Edit* Oh yeah, can we get Consecration and our Auras back? Thanks.

[Tyrannica]

What should i say.......my ret is still lvl70 and i mean since BC. In wotlk they were pretty powerful, must be the peak time along with dks. Sadly never played the ret then. Didn't know blizzard does not allow this spec anymore in any serious pvp.

I would love, if the pvp dev team makes rets playable again maybe in legion.

So, since you came up with lore - we will get Ashbringer in legion, this is a ret weapon, its not a holy mace spreading shiny heals. It was used to shatter frostmourne and destroy Arthas by Tirion who is a Ret, obviously.

The dev team in regards to pvp seems very lame, now in the first time in history, blizzard also prooved to be lame in pve, too, a 3rd tier is missing. That demon hunter only will have 2 specs and one of those specs is a tank spec that can't be really used in rated pvp, anyways.

Will they fix the ret spec for legion?

Why shouldn't they if they do not fix anything at all concerning pvp?

The good old times of previous xpacks are over.

[Lulbalance]

Hit people with your mace. When you get low on health, pop your fag bubble and run away. <-- 95% of paladins

lol'd ###chars.

It's either give you more closers and breaks or more ranged damage, both of those are bad for the game.

i do agree that lowering wings dmg and increasing even basic melee dmg might help in general, but the operating theory an opportunistic melee class.

[Omaski]

Hit people with your mace. When you get low on health, pop your fag bubble and run away. <-- 95% of paladins

you do realize that most classes do that...warrior pops DbtS and leaps away, Monk Liu kang kicks away to heal, rogue vanishes away, feral cyclones then runs away and stealth.

everyone uses their defensive(s) to get away and heal without taking damage.

But anyway, RET needs something that makes them wanted in PvP and not a tunnel target. I would suggest bringing back auras...esp. the "an eye for an eye" where a rogue would potentially kill himself tunneling a ret.

[Deleted]

while issue (esp. proper and entertaining formulation by OP <3 loreaspect of class-identity) implies a lot to elaborate in detail for this so called-squishy class (ie emp seals) i miss the time (date with sith).
so shortversion:
y ret shines in random bgs? whats the difference to rated (except for variable ilvl of opponent)?
LoH. Instant Double HP (off gcd) exhausts most classes burst-periods.

[Regen]

Id kill for slightly more CC (most classes have a few, we have 30 second cd stun, or repentance and the stun goes to 60s) or more damage outside of wings. Buff all abilities overall and reduce wings by a few %

[Beefkow]

Id kill for slightly more CC (most classes have a few, we have 30 second cd stun, or repentance and the stun goes to 60s) or more damage outside of wings. Buff all abilities overall and reduce wings by a few %

8% buff to our core abilities, yay!!! but exorcism got ignored? odd.

[RussW210]

I often have the feeling that we're not bad, but less good than the other melee in most people minds.

The spec is that bad, sorry to say. I've mained a ret since WOTLK and in that time I've had a max level DK, Warrior, and Rogue. They are very gimmicky when people ignore you in noob battlegrounds, sitting there in full CP with your wings out. I'll top damage and take-downs in that situation. But if anyone decides to pay attention to you, you can forget playing. Too many global CD's to switch utility, completely useless offheals if your team is terrible, and wings are just avoidable... even with the increased duration talent. It's by far the worst melee PVP spec in the game, which makes me sad since I'd like the spec to be my main due to sentimental value. But I just can't play the spec seriously in PVP and hope to be competitive without being carried by someone. So I play rogue/warrior PVP, and ret PVE.

[Beefkow]

@RussW210

I agree with you on rets being a terrible pvp melee class, too many globals to switch to defensive and utilities. TBH, I wouldn't mind if they gave rets a 1.0 GCD treatment like they did to DKS, so that way we can throw off more TVs/FVs and spend less time casting our wimpy HP generaters.

Current rets < WOTLK rets, I would like to see judgement, CS, DS, and HOW hit like a freaking truck once again, it feels good to watch a WOTLK pvp video.

[Regen]

Well 1 sec GCD would be nice but with 12 sec exo, 4 sec CS, 5 sec judgment (rough numbers depending on haste) then you'd still need reduced CDs on builders too. Though I wouldn't mind those two.

[Stormspellz]

I remember times when I'd nearly get globaled through my barkskin by a Ret. Sure, revamp them and give them a real somethingsomething, but remove bubble bitches from PVP. All i ask.

PLEASE tell me you play feral

[TeeZed]

They just seem to be unable to balance the ability to heal and damage at the same time, it's either completely broken or it's worthless, they should put some kind of proc back in like art of war used to be so you can flash of light instantly, doubt it'd make very much difference considering outside of cooldowns it's the same as always, wet noodle fight where the only thing holy is the gaps in the rotation with an unlucky proc streak.