Ireland planning to decriminalise small quantities of drugs like heroic and cocaine

[Sam the Wiser]

What´s their stance regarding mythic addiction?

I Kek'd over.

[Bakis]

So, you're fine with having a state telling people what kind of nasty stuff they're allowed to put inside them?
Criminalisation of a drug usually means you go after those consuming it, not the ones providing it. And that just hasn't given us the best results so far.

In terms of drugs I'm not in favor of its legality as of yet however if confronted with research here in Sweden supporting a legalisation of lets say weed here then I would change my mind.

So I cant comment on Portugal since there are probably totally different variables. Thats why I asked.
I dont mind the project it should be clear by reading my posts I'm just interested in what the research has so far shown if there is any side effect such as inreasing the amount of new herois users directly linked to a relaxed attitude by decriminalise it for personal use.
That is all I asked about

[xxf2dxx]

What´s their stance regarding mythic addiction?

*Injection rooms will now include wifi

[Kalis]

In terms of drugs I'm not in favor of its legality as of yet however if confronted with research here in Sweden supporting a legalisation of lets say weed here then I would change my mind.

So I cant comment on Portugal since there are probably totally different variables. Thats why I asked.
I dont mind the project it should be clear by reading my posts I'm just interested in what the research has so far shown if there is any side effect such as inreasing the amount of new herois users directly linked to a relaxed attitude by decriminalise it for personal use.
That is all I asked about

When we talk about decriminalisation it usually isn't the same as legalisation, you seem to be using the terms interchangeably.

Decriminalisation is when you can't get arrested for possessing quantities for self use, but can get arrested for selling it. Legalisation means it can be sold legally. At least that is how the terms are usually used.

[Rukh]

In terms of drugs I'm not in favor of its legality as of yet however if confronted with research here in Sweden supporting a legalisation of lets say weed here then I would change my mind.

So I cant comment on Portugal since there are probably totally different variables. Thats why I asked.
I dont mind the project it should be clear by reading my posts I'm just interested in what the research has so far shown if there is any side effect such as inreasing the amount of new herois users directly linked to a relaxed attitude by decriminalise it for personal use.
That is all I asked about

I understand your fears, but I think that what is happening isn't actually the thing you're worried about. I think you're worried more about permissibility of usage of these harder drugs, and that's not whats happening. What countries are trying to do is keep these drugs as socially banned but build more effective ways to actually reduce usage than just throwing people in jail which has limited effect. All the methods so far though are more about moving users to treatment instead, but its still highly illegal to sell it or manufacture it. They don't want it in the country, period, but they want their citizens to be helped out of it, not have it just be a game over card.

[Bakis]

When we talk about decriminalisation it usually isn't the same as legalisation, you seem to be using the terms interchangeably.

Decriminalisation is when you can't get arrested for possessing quantities for self use, but can get arrested for selling it. Legalisation means it can be sold legally. At least that is how the terms are usually used.

Yes I was sloppy, I'm aware of the words but I got lazy

[GG you got me]

So basically, boost in business for the illegal drug trade of two substances with copious amounts of human suffering behind them in third world countries.

lol

[Bakis]

I understand your fears, but I think that what is happening isn't actually the thing you're worried about. I think you're worried more about permissibility of usage of these harder drugs, and that's not whats happening. What countries are trying to do is keep these drugs as socially banned but build more effective ways to actually reduce usage than just throwing people in jail which has limited effect. All the methods so far though are more about moving users to treatment instead, but its still highly illegal to sell it or manufacture it. They don't want it in the country, period, but they want their citizens to be helped out of it, not have it just be a game over card.

Yup I think my main "problem" is that it is hard to get ones head around Portugals problem.
The US policy is obviously not doing it right but I know enough about it which isn't the case with Portugal.
I should read up on it.

[Socialhealer]

I love me some heroic now and again.

indeed, sometimes you can't be bothered to do mythic and you're like damn ok i'll take the risk, gonna do some heroic today!

[Kalis]

So basically, boost in business for the illegal drug trade of two substances with copious amounts of human suffering behind them in third world countries.

lol

Except the study of what happened in Portugal shows it didn't result in a boost for business and problems associated with drug abuse improved. It was a net benefit, with little in the way of negatives.

Whether or not Ireland or Portugal are third world nation is up for debate.

[GG you got me]

Whether or not Ireland or Portugal are third world nation is up for debate.

I was referring to the countries where they cultivate poppy fields & coca plants. It says a lot that it went without consideration, though.

I care a lot less about the user's end, so long as they can be kept from stealing everything that isn't bolted down.

[Kalis]

I was referring to the countries where they cultivate poppy fields & coca plants. It says a lot that it went without consideration, though.

I care a lot less about the user's end, so long as they can be kept from stealing everything that isn't bolted down.

If it isn't boosting business in the user market, why would it boost business in the producer market?

[GG you got me]

If it isn't boosting business in the user market, why would it boost business in the producer market?

Not to disparage the good name of Wikipedia, but a link to an actual study so that their biases could be examined first hand would be more interesting. It would be helpful in even beginning to determine any disparity that may exist between criminalized heroin use in Portugal in the past compared to Ireland of today (supposing that Portugal may not be a fair barometer for Ireland under scrutiny)... and so on, and so forth.

[Rukh]

Not to disparage the good name of Wikipedia, but a link to an actual study so that their biases could be examined first hand would be more interesting. It would be helpful in even beginning to determine any disparity that may exist between criminalized heroin use in Portugal in the past compared to Ireland of today (supposing that Portugal may not be a fair barometer for Ireland under scrutiny)... and so on, and so forth.

You know wikipedia requires cited references to actual studies right?

Greenwald, Glenn (2 April 2009). "Drug Decriminalization in Portugal: Lessons for Creating Fair and Successful Drug Policies" (pdf). Cato Institute. Retrieved 14 February 2015. http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.or...whitepaper.pdf

Jump up ^ Vastag, Brian (7 April 2009). "5 Years After: Portugal's Drug Decriminalization Policy Shows Positive Results". Scientific American. Retrieved 14 February 2015. http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...iminalization/

Jump up ^ Szalavitz, Maia (26 April 2009). "Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work?". Time. Retrieved 14 February 2015. http://content.time.com/time/health/...893946,00.html

Right in the link. Don't be lazy now.

[Kalis]

Not to disparage the good name of Wikipedia, but a link to an actual study so that their biases could be examined first hand would be more interesting. It would be helpful in even beginning to determine any disparity that may exist between criminalized heroin use in Portugal in the past compared to Ireland of today (supposing that Portugal may not be a fair barometer for Ireland under scrutiny)... and so on, and so forth.

Then look up the studies, rather than guessing as you're doing now.

[GG you got me]

You know wikipedia requires cited references to actual studies right?

Greenwald, Glenn (2 April 2009). "Drug Decriminalization in Portugal: Lessons for Creating Fair and Successful Drug Policies" (pdf). Cato Institute. Retrieved 14 February 2015. http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.or...whitepaper.pdf

Jump up ^ Vastag, Brian (7 April 2009). "5 Years After: Portugal's Drug Decriminalization Policy Shows Positive Results". Scientific American. Retrieved 14 February 2015. http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...iminalization/

Jump up ^ Szalavitz, Maia (26 April 2009). "Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work?". Time. Retrieved 14 February 2015. http://content.time.com/time/health/...893946,00.html

Right in the link. Don't be lazy now.

Thanks for the direct links I'll peruse them when I have some time later today.

- - - Updated - - -

Then look up the studies, rather than guessing as you're doing now.

I could just start guessing that Portugal's an accurate barometer for decriminalization in culturally dissimilar countries, if that would trigger you less.

[Kalis]

I could just start guessing that Portugal's an accurate barometer for decriminalization in culturally dissimilar countries, if that would trigger you less.

I used data from another EU country for comparison, whereas you just made stuff up. And now you're upset that was pointed out

[GG you got me]

I used data from another EU country for comparison, whereas you just made stuff up. And now you're upset that was pointed out

Even a cursory glance indicates that Portugal narrowed the definition of problematic drug "abuser", and their success is corollary with a comprehensive treatment approach that the OP's article doesn't detail for Ireland.

You may be overestimating how upset the MMO-Champion forums actually make people.

[Rukh]

Even a cursory glance indicates that Portugal narrowed the definition of problematic drug "abuser", and their success is corollary with a comprehensive treatment approach that the OP's article doesn't detail for Ireland.

You may be overestimating how upset the MMO-Champion forums actually make people.

I wouldn't suggest using the OPs article as its a tabloid.

Here's the quote we have to go off though:
Discussing plans to open ‘injection rooms’ Mr Ó Ríordáin said they would be “clinically controlled environments” that would aim to prevent already vulnerable individuals from exposing themselves to further risks.

He added: “Research has shown that the use of supervised injecting centres is associated with self-reported reductions in injecting risk behaviours.”

There's just simply not much information because there's no real legislation penned that they plan to pass yet, just a general "hey guise lets do this thing" so far. We just can't really project any real outcome on such a vague claim.

We can say that other countries who have tried such things have been successful though. I don't know if we have an example of a country that has decriminalized personal ownershp of illicit drugs while focusing on providing treatment and still cracking down on distribution and had a bad outcome from it.

[Kalis]

Even a cursory glance indicates that Portugal narrowed the definition of problematic drug "abuser", and their success is corollary with a comprehensive treatment approach that the OP's article doesn't detail for Ireland.

You may be overestimating how upset the MMO-Champion forums actually make people.

What data did you use that supports your claim it would lead to an increase in users and by consequence production?