Protection legion Discussion

[Eatdamuffin]

yeah but they said the more damage the more rage. If you are not tanking actively and get passive damage you get basically no rage from passive damage and as i said revenge + shield slam is 10 rage and you need 40 for an ignore pain.

I think rage being generated passively is a huge step back. Unless you stand in fire to boost some rage. At least shield block doesn't cost much now.

Without seeing some of our other talents this is pretty much what you'll be doing to maximize rage and damage output. You'll be standing in fire to try and generate as much rage as possible when it's not detrimental. You'll be using shield block even when you're not tanking for SS 30% damage buffs and trying to keep it's uptime longer. When tanking you'll have Sblock up more than you do now so you'll be pouring as much rage into either Ignore Pain depending on how it's triggered and heroic strikes. Occassionally holding out on Ignore Pain casts for specific timing reasons like big boss casts.

Get rewarded for taking more damage, just what we needed While Ignore Pain seems to be certainly a good mechanic, why on earth did they have to name it Ignore Pain? To me, it's pretty much the same whimsical magical ability that Shield Barrier was. Certainly a disappointment lore-wise.

I mean have some imagination. Your character is just grunting and grinding his teeth as he just shakes it off and shouting at himself to "Take it like a man/woman in child birth."

[Valech]

yeah but they said the more damage the more rage. If you are not tanking actively and get passive damage you get basically no rage from passive damage and as i said revenge + shield slam is 10 rage and you need 40 for an ignore pain.

I think rage being generated passively is a huge step back. Unless you stand in fire to boost some rage. At least shield block doesn't cost much now.

Standing in fire to generate rage will most surely not be thing. Also, why would you want to cast ignore pain while not actively tanking?

[Toppy]

Saw a post on wow_general about Gladiator stance. Since I do not have an active account; I can't post there.
After the class talk at the DMF; a bunch of the devs stuck around and we all chit-chatted about classes and random things.

One of the things briefly touched on; is that Gladiator Stance (as of Blizzcon) is not planned to be a thing in Legion.
Sorry for the potentially bad news, but I wouldn't get hopes up for it's return.

May they all rot in hell.

[Deleted]

yeah but they said the more damage the more rage. If you are not tanking actively and get passive damage you get basically no rage from passive damage and as i said revenge + shield slam is 10 rage and you need 40 for an ignore pain.

I think rage being generated passively is a huge step back. Unless you stand in fire to boost some rage. At least shield block doesn't cost much now.

yeah really hoping this gets reverted before live. rage from damage is great when you are actually tanking stuff, but sucks if you are not. I guess the idea is they don't want you to pool up two charges of ignore pain while offtanking. Maybe it could work if they reduced rage cost on heroic strike so you can still use that while offtanking.

[Taeldorian]

I'm more of the fury type of warrior, but I've played prot before and I know what the community has wanted. Seems like a lot of people asked for some way to mitigate magic, and it seems like spell reflect is now going to do that. We also have some added ways to mitigate damage we take, like Ignore pain. Overall, both fury and prot have really good changes and updates. Really like the way this is going.

[Eatdamuffin]

Standing in fire to generate rage will most surely not be thing. Also, why would you want to cast ignore pain while not actively tanking?

Yes it will be if you want to maximize your damage during low rage moments (though I'm hesistant to say this completely without seeing our new talents/getting a feel for how fast rage builds in the average encounter). Just as casting Sblock even when not tanking will be a way to maximize your damage output.

You might also want to cast Ignore Pain when not tanking to generate rage by again standing in fire as I'm guessing your rage intake will be calculated before damage reductions so even if you take less damage, you'll get the rage from it as if you had nothing up at all.

[Valech]

Without seeing some of our other talents this is pretty much what you'll be doing to maximize rage and damage output. You'll be standing in fire to try and generate as much rage as possible when it's not detrimental. You'll be using shield block even when you're not tanking for SS 30% damage buffs and trying to keep it's uptime longer. When tanking you'll have Sblock up more than you do now so you'll be pouring as much rage into either Ignore Pain depending on how it's triggered and heroic strikes. Occassionally holding out on Ignore Pain casts for specific timing reasons like big boss casts.

as mentioned, rage generation by standing in fire will most likely not be a thing. They learned that during MoP.
If you have long enough periods of not tanking, I can see people using their shieldblock for the purpose you mentioned. Then again, we have yet to see talent alternatives.
Pretty sure spamming or using heroic strikes while actively tanking will not be a thing either. Outside of ultimatum proccs, that is. if we keep ultimatum.

[Kaljurei]

yeah but they said the more damage the more rage. If you are not tanking actively and get passive damage you get basically no rage from passive damage and as i said revenge + shield slam is 10 rage and you need 40 for an ignore pain.

I think rage being generated passively is a huge step back. Unless you stand in fire to boost some rage. At least shield block doesn't cost much now.

It says "damage taken", not active damage taken or passive. That means even if you lose 10% of your hp(assuming numbers here) due to an AOE spell, you will gain 10 rage(assuming numbers here).

You still need to mitigate the damage taken from unnecessary sources - you do that by not standing in the fire. Anyone who does otherwise that is not a mathematically supported decision is an idiot. If maths says though, that you do better by standing in the fire, then that's bad design and needs to be corrected.

[Aranes]

They wanted Active Mitigation to feel less punishing if you misused it. Having to always keep yourself above 60 rage on some fights could be tough if you didn't get procs, or you had to keep yourself above 60 rage at all times. Both are boring and way too punishing for new players as well.

So you had to actually plan ahead 4-5secs ahead. God forbid...
Shield Block costs more rage but Revenge and Shield Slam also generate more Rage. In Legion it costs less but Revenge and Shield Slam also generate less...

Lets be honest.. its dumbing down the mechanics. Plain and simple.

[Deliverer]

It says "damage taken", not active damage taken or passive. That means even if you lose 10% of your hp(assuming numbers here) due to an AOE spell, you will gain 10 rage(assuming numbers here).

You still need to mitigate the damage taken from unnecessary sources - you do that by not standing in the fire. Anyone who does otherwise that is not a mathematically supported decision is an idiot. If maths says though, that you do better by standing in the fire, then that's bad design and needs to be corrected.

The main complaint about prot warrior in wotlk and before was that you don't generate any rage if taking low damage or when not actively tanking.

[Leih]

So you had to actually plan ahead 4-5secs ahead. God forbid...
Shield Block costs more rage but Revenge and Shield Slam also generate more Rage. In Legion it costs less but Revenge and Shield Slam also generate less...

Lets be honest.. its dumbing down the mechanics. Plain and simple.

It's not really that at all though. Ignore Pain is going to cost 40 rage, which is pretty high now with reduced generation. Seems more like they're just retuning things around so that Ignore Pain will be the heavy-rage primary spender while Shield Block is the low rage solution when you're not taking heavy damage or on a pull etc.

[Deliverer]

Standing in fire to generate rage will most surely not be thing. Also, why would you want to cast ignore pain while not actively tanking?

I was taking gruul as example. On gruul you taunt on the slice and you want a cd rdy. Obviously on a boss like gruul you want to have ignore pain ready for when you are tanking but there is no way you generate 40 rage with shield slam or revenge when not actively tanking.

[Kaljurei]

The main complaint about prot warrior in wotlk and before was that you don't generate any rage if taking low damage or when not actively tanking.

That was purely because none of your abilities generated rage - now it's not the case. Have faith. Also, feedback should ensure that active abilities generate more rage than they currently do according to present Legion design.

[Eatdamuffin]

as mentioned, rage generation by standing in fire will most likely not be a thing. They learned that during MoP.
If you have long enough periods of not tanking, I can see people using their shieldblock for the purpose you mentioned. Then again, we have yet to see talent alternatives.
Pretty sure spamming or using heroic strikes while actively tanking will not be a thing either. Outside of ultimatum proccs, that is. if we keep ultimatum.

Unless they make a specific exception for it not to generate rage, it will be. Either way you'll be looking for creative means to generate rage when not tanking which I'm sure Blizzard will not be able to make exceptions for all of them.

As far as heroic strike usage it all depends on how fast you generate rage while tanking, when and how Ignore Pain is triggered.

[Krom2040]

I generally like to be a positive person, but as best as I can tell, these changes fucking suck. Getting rage from incoming damage has always sucked and just means you're rage-starved in a ton of situations; dropping rage gain from Shield Slam by 70% and the rage gain from Revenge by 80% is potentially catastrophic. I am not optimistic at all about this. Solo'ing looks like it's going to be flopping around like a wet noodle again.

Ignore Pain sounds like horse shit. Save up a huge amount of rage to nullify the *one* huge attack that you happen to be able to predict completely in advance? I'm sorry, this is desperately situational and thoroughly worse than Shield Barrier and much worse than Death Strike and the paladin Word of Glory replacement.

This is a terrible change and gives me no faith at all in Protection. I've been tanking on my warrior for ten years, but I think I'm just going to switch to a DK if there's no majorly redeeming information in the pipe. These are just insulting changes to a class that I already thought was getting mediocre treatment in WoD, but at least Revenge spam and alternating Shield Block / Shield Barrier *felt* fun. Even the artifacts look fucking bland.

God, now I'm just in a shitty mood.

[Garlane]

It says "damage taken", not active damage taken or passive. That means even if you lose 10% of your hp(assuming numbers here) due to an AOE spell, you will gain 10 rage(assuming numbers here).

You still need to mitigate the damage taken from unnecessary sources - you do that by not standing in the fire. Anyone who does otherwise that is not a mathematically supported decision is an idiot. If maths says though, that you do better by standing in the fire, then that's bad design and needs to be corrected.

Did you play during the era of vengeance? It was exactly like described here, tanks were standing in fire and optimizing their damage intake in order to boost their vengeance levels and dps. Blizzard replaced this with the current resolve. They keep walking in circles, not learning from their past experiences.

[Valech]

Unless they make a specific exception for it not to generate rage, it will be. Either way you'll be looking for creative means to generate rage when not tanking which I'm sure Blizzard will not be able to make exceptions for all of them.

As far as heroic strike usage it all depends on how fast you generate rage while tanking, when and how Ignore Pain is triggered.

They managed to make exceptions for vengeance. I don´t see why they cannot make exceptions for Rage. Also, you would need to generate exceptionally much rage from enviroment effects to justify standing in them.
Since ignore pain has no cooldown, I don´t see how it would ever be not benefitial for your survival to use the ability, no matter how much rage you generate.

[Deleted]

I generally like to be a positive person, but as best as I can tell, these changes fucking suck. Getting rage from incoming damage has always sucked and just means you're rage-starved in a ton of situations; dropping rage gain from Shield Slam by 70% and the rage gain from Revenge by 80% is potentially catastrophic. I am not optimistic at all about this. Solo'ing looks like it's going to be flopping around like a wet noodle again.

Ignore Pain sounds like horse shit. Save up a huge amount of rage to nullify the *one* huge attack that you happen to be able to predict completely in advance? I'm sorry, this is desperately situational and thoroughly worse than Shield Barrier and much worse than Death Strike and the paladin Word of Glory replacement.

This is a terrible change and gives me no faith at all in Protection. I've been tanking on my warrior for ten years, but I think I'm just going to switch to a DK if there's no majorly redeeming information in the pipe. These are just insulting changes to a class that I already thought was getting mediocre treatment in WoD, but at least Revenge spam and alternating Shield Block / Shield Barrier *felt* fun. Even the artifacts look fucking bland.

God, now I'm just in a shitty mood.

shield wall, last stand and demo shout presumably aren't going anywhere. on top of that we get spell reflect and ignore pain. doesn't seem so bad to me.

[Deliverer]

That was purely because none of your abilities generated rage - now it's not the case. Have faith. Also, feedback should ensure that active abilities generate more rage than they currently do according to present Legion design.

I'll wait and see for artifact talents and new talents before judging. But i remember what they have done with arms in wod, even when everyone complained about it being bad they still stick to their design and went back to old one now 1 expansion later.

[Krom2040]

shield wall, last stand and demo shout presumably aren't going anywhere. on top of that we get spell reflect and ignore pain. doesn't seem so bad to me.

The Spell Reflect change is good, but honestly it should have been changed to be like that two years ago.

Ignore Pain is garbage and costs way too much rage based on their new rage generation values for Shield Slam and Revenge. I love their logic: "let's change it so warriors get rage from damage, and then give them a skill that costs a huge amount of rage that you have to use BEFORE YOU TAKE A LOT OF DAMAGE!"