Protection legion Discussion

[Inuyaki]

ok, I think from the wording of those...
Prot will be so op O.o

First you get 26 out of 36 sec ShieldBlock active (18 sec because 3 charges SB and 8 sec because 4 charges SS) and then you get a 90% dmg reduce w/o cd?
I mean I often found Zen Med (Monk) absolutetly op, but that has a 3min cd, which is quite huge, so I guess that balanced it out... but no cd? wt...


PS the ShieldBlock thing... that is w/o talents, so if there is something like SnB, 100% uptime could be possible

Also the Gruul discussion: It's not like you go with 0 rage into the non-tanking-phase. You can bank your rage while tanking the boss, because SB is absolutely cheap now and then go with 100 (or near 100 Rage) into the Slice-phase... so if you need to soak 3 Slices, you need 120 Rage, I guess you can get the 20 missing Rage easily


PPS the guy under me
But you get 3 charges of SB during 36sec fighttime

[Aranes]

Shield Block still only has 2 charges, not 3.

[Kaljurei]

Did you play during the era of vengeance? It was exactly like described here, tanks were standing in fire and optimizing their damage intake in order to boost their vengeance levels and dps. Blizzard replaced this with the current resolve. They keep walking in circles, not learning from their past experiences.

Yeah because in MoP the damage wasn't so bad that they couldn't stand in fire. Now, it's not quite the case. Example in point - Tyrant Velhari.

[Valech]

ok, I think from the wording of those...
Prot will be so op O.o

First you get 26 out of 36 sec ShieldBlock active (18 sec because 3 charges SB and 8 sec because 4 charges SS) and then you get a 90% dmg reduce w/o cd?
I mean I often found Zen Med (Monk) absolutetly op, but that has a 3min cd, which is quite huge, so I guess that balanced it out... but no cd? wt...


PS the ShieldBlock thing... that is w/o talents, so if there is something like SnB, 100% uptime could be possible

Also the Gruul discussion: It's not like you go with 0 rage into the non-tanking-phase. You can bank your rage while tanking the boss, because SB is absolutely cheap now and then go with 100 (or near 100 Rage) into the Slice-phase... so if you need to soak 3 Slices, you need 120 Rage, I guess you can get the 20 missing Rage easily


PPS the guy under me
But you get 3 charges of SB during 36sec fighttime

I think from all ideas about how ignore pain may work, the idea that it is a flat 90% damage reduction is the most unlikely one^^

[Peukst]

I generally like to be a positive person, but as best as I can tell, these changes fucking suck. Getting rage from incoming damage has always sucked and just means you're rage-starved in a ton of situations; dropping rage gain from Shield Slam by 70% and the rage gain from Revenge by 80% is potentially catastrophic. I am not optimistic at all about this. Solo'ing looks like it's going to be flopping around like a wet noodle again.

Ignore Pain sounds like horse shit. Save up a huge amount of rage to nullify the *one* huge attack that you happen to be able to predict completely in advance? I'm sorry, this is desperately situational and thoroughly worse than Shield Barrier and much worse than Death Strike and the paladin Word of Glory replacement.

This is a terrible change and gives me no faith at all in Protection. I've been tanking on my warrior for ten years, but I think I'm just going to switch to a DK if there's no majorly redeeming information in the pipe. These are just insulting changes to a class that I already thought was getting mediocre treatment in WoD, but at least Revenge spam and alternating Shield Block / Shield Barrier *felt* fun. Even the artifacts look fucking bland.

God, now I'm just in a shitty mood.

Where does it say that the rage gain from SS and Revenge is decreased by 70 and 80 % ?

[Aranes]

Where does it say that the rage gain from SS and Revenge is decreased by 70 and 80 % ?

In the preview? Revenge now generates 4 rage and Shield Slam generates 6. A total of 10 rage (before eventual procs) every 9 seconds... "yay"

[Eatdamuffin]

Yeah because in MoP the damage wasn't so bad that they couldn't stand in fire. Now, it's not quite the case. Example in point - Tyrant Velhari.

Tyrant is the only boss with threatening tank damage in this tier and maybe Dia when she's transformed which leads to an interesting question of if say on a boss like Dia when transformed she does really fast melee attacks, in a situation like that I imagine you'll be generating enough rage to use Ignore Pain every other swing? If not it'd be pretty useless on bosses that have mechanics like that, another one that I can think of off the top of my head is Hagara in Dragon Soul.

[Augusta138]

Overall the changes look fine to me,

The rage issues discussed in this thread dont really make me worry atm.
In the current state, when not tanking or tanking, you basically build 0-120 rage in what? 4 globals?

Changing the system to give less rage and having to do more for the same amount sounds fine to me.

[Count Zero]

Seems like a lot of the confusion surrounding Ignore Pain is stemming from some misinformation some people have spread about it.

The talk about single target vs aoe. They don't explicitly spell it out like this this but it's just so clear I can't understand why there is any confusion: shield block is for aoe, Ignore Pain is for single target.

Ignore Pain is the Kilrogg trinket. Heck, ignore the overview and just look at the text:

"Fight through the pain, ignoring 90% of the next massive amount (based on maximum health) of damage you take.".

"The next." Single. "Massive amount". Look at all the other abilities. They say things like "cause moderate damage" or "cause massive" damage. I'm sure these are specific terms for them.

Stop overthinking it.

[Inuyaki]

It basically says "ignore 90% of the next massive dmg you take", I don't know why that is so hard to understand? That is not even ambiguous O.o

[jason1975]

Couple of thoughts on these changes:

1) Prot warrior was my main from Wrath to the beginning of MoP. I've recently switched back to it in 6.2 as we had a tank depart our guild.

2) Warrior tanking is in a good place right now . . . but we don't need more abilities. Remember that due to tank balance: Every ability they give us reduces the impact of our other abilities. I don't like another short cd button in spell reflect becoming a mandatory part of our defensive rotation. They're going to have to nerf our mitigation in other ways to compensate for this additional ability. Bleh. Watered down abilities isn't fun.

3) I HATE ignore pain's design. One of the few tanking challenges that makes it interesting is avoiding big telegraphed hits. Now we can just hit a button and ignore them? Where's the engaging gameplay in that? Also, every other tank is going to want an immunity button as well, and this is going to blow up tank balance.

4) Overall, our mitigation is becoming too spammy. Mitigation should be something we use around bigger abilities and damage bursts, not something with 100% uptime that we have to hit 3-4 buttons (outside our rage generation rotation) to maintain. There needs to be gameplay decisions made around mitigation use, not braindead 100% uptime. Unless we're going to get threat back to make tanking interesting again . . .

[Deleted]

Seems like a lot of the confusion surrounding Ignore Pain is stemming from some misinformation some people have spread about it.

The talk about single target vs aoe. They don't explicitly spell it out like this this but it's just so clear I can't understand why there is any confusion: shield block is for aoe, Ignore Pain is for single target.

Ignore Pain is the Kilrogg trinket. Heck, ignore the overview and just look at the text:

"Fight through the pain, ignoring 90% of the next massive amount (based on maximum health) of damage you take.".

"The next." Single. "Massive amount". Look at all the other abilities. They say things like "cause moderate damage" or "cause massive" damage. I'm sure these are specific terms for them.

Stop overthinking it.

Nowhere does it even imply "single". If I say "ignore the next 100k hits", it doesn't mean a single hit, it means 100k hits.

[Eatdamuffin]

Seems like a lot of the confusion surrounding Ignore Pain is stemming from some misinformation some people have spread about it.

The talk about single target vs aoe. They don't explicitly spell it out like this this but it's just so clear I can't understand why there is any confusion: shield block is for aoe, Ignore Pain is for single target.

Ignore Pain is the Kilrogg trinket. Heck, ignore the overview and just look at the text:

"Fight through the pain, ignoring 90% of the next massive amount (based on maximum health) of damage you take.".

"The next." Single. "Massive amount". Look at all the other abilities. They say things like "cause moderate damage" or "cause massive" damage. I'm sure these are specific terms for them.

Stop overthinking it.

It basically says "ignore 90% of the next massive dmg you take", I don't know why that is so hard to understand? That is not even ambiguous O.o

Because massive damage is a % of your health to be determined. And what is considered massive damage? Only a singular hit? You can take massive damage within 2-3 seconds with a big bleed or a bunch of adds beating on you that would not trigger this if each tick or swing is under the threshhold. Hell even the boss could be under the effect of a haste mechanic be swinging at you for a ton of damage but each hit individually could be smaller than the threshhold to tick this and 90% of one of those hits could be fairly useless and worse than sbarrier is now. It all depends how fast our rage gen is too, if when taking a lot of damage our rage bar is filling up instantly or giving us 40 rage a second then it's fine to be spam casting Ignore Pain.

It's extremely vague and while it might be similar to Kilrogg trinket I doubt it'll work quite like that. No where does it say single hit, it says "90% of the next massive amount of damage you take" that could still imply that it's a short window of damage intake. The last question I have about it is how long does it last if you don't trigger it? Is it permanent? Does it only last 6 seconds like sbar does now?

[Deleted]

Fight through the pain, ignoring 90% of the next massive amount (based on maximum health) of damage you take.

"massive" is a placeholder term to give you an idea of the amount. Similar to what all offensive skills have. Let's say it's 600k with your current gear and max health, right?

If the skill reads:

"Fight through the pain, ignoring 90% of the next 600k damage you take."

Does it mean it's for a single hit with this wording? Obviously not. Read.

To be clear, the skill cannot only work for a single hit or it'd be worthless at 4x the cost of Shield Block. That's why it's not even a possibility.

[auxao]

"Fight through the pain, ignoring 90% of the next 600k damage you take."

I kinda agree with this. They say Ignore Pain, "...functions as your primary defensive Rage-spender." If it only negated one attack I don't think this would be true.

[Ashenia]

Before I actually say "Great changes" or "Meh..." I would like to know some info about first like:
- From what else do I generate rage (enrage, crit, block etc)
- What do I do when not tanking? Generating rage for IP when I will be tanking is bit.. boring (was hoping for Stance Dance - Glad and do some medicore DPS in meanwhile)
- How do we stand vs. our co-shield bro's Paladins who get such massive SoR damage reduction, block also and heal. Is our Def Stance way higher to compensate?
- What are we losing beside Execute (might miss something)

Only one thing made me smile like hell so far is Spell Reflection, which was mentioned here ages ago quite a few times (pre-WoD) and actually happened. Great to see this happen and this was just needed. As for rest, it's just a preview and not even "closed" beta started so not much to say about it, but that rage gen is meh.

[Deleted]

Thematicaly it's the most awesomest of skills they can give us. "Bring it on man, bring your worst!". If that isn't the stalwart defender, standing between the threat and your friends, then I don't know what is. It's cool beyond words.

I agree with people thinking it's similar to the Killrog trinket. Based on health% it gives a flat reduction to incoming spike damage. I like that. Shield reflect made usefull, I like that too.

Only thing I'm a little bit annoyed about is the fact that deep wounds doesn't seem to trigger from thunder clap. Finally I need to learn to not mash that button.

[Deleted]

Did you play during the era of vengeance? It was exactly like described here, tanks were standing in fire and optimizing their damage intake in order to boost their vengeance levels and dps. Blizzard replaced this with the current resolve. They keep walking in circles, not learning from their past experiences.

God damn that was the most fun I have had in WoW since wotlk.

[brimdog]

I do not like having Heroic Strike, as I feel that prot warrior should have something else to dump rage with.

Heroic Shield = 30 rage
increases your block and critical block % by an additional 20%. While Heroic Shield is active, successful blocks deal an amount of damage equal to (% of warrior's health) back to the attacker. Lasts for 3 blocks. 6 sec cooldown. Replaces Heroic Strike.

[Agromat]

Blizzard clarified how Ignore Pain works. (It's on Twitter, which I can't link yet)

Ignore Pain ignores 90% of the next X damage you take, from any sources. It lasts until you take a total of X damage.

Yay! We can stop speculating.

They also confirmed it counts as Active Mitigation.