1. #9681
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    Warrior changes made me reroll before the expansion. I won't main it until the class is actually fun again. Fury is worse than MoP fury but better than WoD. Sadly that doesn't mean much. Lol asking for logs because some cancer talent got removed, grow up

    You ever done a M+ dungeon with War Machine Fury and a Sephuz ring equipped? It is like the most insanely crazy (in a good way) experiences one can have, I don't think Fury is in a bad place at all design wise, it's not my cup of tea for raiding but for sure it's pretty good, and a unique experience in dungeon play.

    And FR Arms, I loved it personally and I was very good at it, I find it interesting how often when it gets brought up that FR Arms was more complex and had great nuances and deep mastery, some 30% parsing player shows up to tell me how it was just spammy faceroll nonsense, and it's as if I don't know wtf I'm talking about with my 99% rankings and multiple rank 1 in bracket logs.. Yep the 30th percentile player is right, and I don't know anything. And i'm not making this up, on the official forums every time I talk Arms some pleb comes along and tells me I'm talking out of my ass and that Arms is easy. if I was in a raid with any of them I would leave them for dead, but I'm the clueless one of course.

    I have to be real, I haven't been taking WoW seriously since early EN progress, I've played very casually in a very low end casual guild and it has been months since I've done anything, I'm 4/10 mythic and I'm only that because I came back for 1 raid a few months ago to help out some mates.. So I'm not really that invested, but I am annoyed because I've been following this patch and doing my own theorycrafting, testing and investing some effort on the PTR because I was planning on maybe making an effort again in TOS.

    But I feel so deflated with it all, I just don't want to play Arms as it is.. I would just get so bored, I need a spec that has some tactical elements that keeps me thinking and I like it to be fast paced and demanding... Isn't that why people liked MOP Arms/Fury and Dragon Soul Arms? The right combination of tactical gameplay and high APM? If you make the spec braindead as it feels now then it just becomes bland to anyone who enjoys exploring the nuances of spec mastery.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2017-06-15 at 02:35 PM.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  2. #9682
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    You ever done a M+ dungeon with War Machine Fury and a Sephuz ring equipped? It is like the most insanely crazy (in a good way) experiences one can have, I don't think Fury is in a bad place at all design wise, it's not my cup of tea for raiding but for sure it's pretty good, and a unique experience in dungeon play.

    And FR Arms, I loved it personally and I was very good at it, I find it interesting how often when it gets brought up that FR Arms was more complex and had great nuances and deep mastery, some 30% parsing player shows up to tell me how it was just spammy faceroll nonsense, and it's as if I don't know wtf I'm talking about with my 99% rankings and multiple rank 1 in bracket logs.. Yep the 30th percentile player is right, and I don't know anything. And i'm not making this up, on the official forums every time I talk Arms some pleb comes along and tells me I'm talking out of my ass and that Arms is easy. if I was in a raid with any of them I would leave them for dead, but I'm the clueless one of course.

    I have to be real, I haven't been taking WoW seriously since early EN progress, I've played very casually in a very low end casual guild and it has been months since I've done anything, I'm 4/10 mythic and I'm only that because I came back for 1 raid a few months ago to help out some mates.. So I'm not really that invested, but I am annoyed because I've been following this patch and doing my own theorycrafting, testing and investing some effort on the PTR because I was planning on maybe making an effort again in TOS.

    But I feel so deflated with it all, I just don't want to play Arms as it is.. I would just get so bored, I need a spec that has some tactical elements that keeps me thinking and I like it to be fast paced and demanding... Isn't that why people liked MOP Arms/Fury and Dragon Soul Arms? The right combination of tactical gameplay and high APM? If you make the spec braindead as it feels now then it just becomes bland to anyone who enjoys exploring the nuances of spec mastery.
    I guess to each his own

  3. #9683
    Hey guys this thread is just becoming non productive. FR is dead yes? Can we stop talking about arms from 5 years ago

  4. #9684
    Couldn't agree more with Saiona and Warriorpriest. Arms is fine... fury is fine... i parse 90 percentile logs in M NH and soon ToS. I am consistently top 3 dps in my guild. Unfortunately, the people that play these specs competitively in pve are in the minority and the design itself is left to the forum dwelling trolls that either A. spent a total of 5 hours playing the spec with no gear and no clue or B. People just looking for something to whine about...

    It's quite sad. In the past 48 hours I haven't read a single post indicating that despite these hotfixes we will survive and remain competitive on BOTH specs. How many other classes have 2 specs that are both shaping up to be in the top 10 for tos?

    FR is dead in pve.. move on. As a last though to all of this "best arms that ever existed" debacle ... that was in Ulduar when ArP existed.

  5. #9685
    Quote Originally Posted by Ladorian View Post
    Couldn't agree more with Saiona and Warriorpriest. Arms is fine... fury is fine... i parse 90 percentile logs in M NH and soon ToS. I am consistently top 3 dps in my guild. Unfortunately, the people that play these specs competitively in pve are in the minority and the design itself is left to the forum dwelling trolls that either A. spent a total of 5 hours playing the spec with no gear and no clue or B. People just looking for something to whine about...

    It's quite sad. In the past 48 hours I haven't read a single post indicating that despite these hotfixes we will survive and remain competitive on BOTH specs. How many other classes have 2 specs that are both shaping up to be in the top 10 for tos?

    FR is dead in pve.. move on. As a last though to all of this "best arms that ever existed" debacle ... that was in Ulduar when ArP existed.
    Nobody is debating whether Arms is competitive because that much is clear to all, the overall concern therfor is the discussion over the death of FR gameplay and what we're left with as a result. Unless you haven't noticed the birth of Discord Warrior channel has also triggered the death of MMO champion as a place of discussion/theorycrafting, this is about as much action as this thread has had in a long time.

    I never did switch over to Fury, Arms wasn't as competitive as Fury for sure but Arms also wasn't quite as bad as the perception many people had. Indeed an exceptional player playing Arms would still outshine weaker players of stronger classes in many situations, it was only at the cutting edge where you'd see the difference. And yes the new Arms does more dps than the old, it's an all-round stronger spec now and the T20 set bonus is great, performance wise actually Arms is in a strong place and we all know that.

    So why am I whining like a little bitch? Mostly because I find myself with an offer to come back raiding properly, with the opportunity to do decent progression and the opportunity to post some sweet logs and I just don't want to play the spec in the current iteration. Naturally I'm venting those frustrations out on this now relatively dead sub-forum where I'm one of the last regulars who still posts here.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2017-06-15 at 04:19 PM.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  6. #9686
    Banned Rorke's Avatar
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    FR wasn't hard and skilled but its a whole lot better than what Arms is now.

  7. #9687
    Quote Originally Posted by satimy View Post
    If it's worse then 3 expansions ago that's not progress. FR was unpopular from what I gather. You seem to just chalk that up to everyone else being bad at the game. I'm just saying there's more explanations than that.
    To be fair, I haven't seen a single player decry FR who was actually good at it. No complaints from those posting %90+ mythic parses, only from those that couldn't play it effectively.

    Its much easier to criticize a build/spec/style as "unfun" or whatever than admit to yourself that you lack either the a) capacity to learn it, or b) the will to learn it. Almost everyone will admit to b, but in reality I suspect a lot of the dislike for FR stems from players for whom mastery of the build was too complicated or demanding. These players will probably be silent now that they can "top the meters" with a largely skill-stripped shell of a spec.

  8. #9688
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoeth View Post
    To be fair, I haven't seen a single player decry FR who was actually good at it. No complaints from those posting %90+ mythic parses, only from those that couldn't play it effectively.

    Its much easier to criticize a build/spec/style as "unfun" or whatever than admit to yourself that you lack either the a) capacity to learn it, or b) the will to learn it. Almost everyone will admit to b, but in reality I suspect a lot of the dislike for FR stems from players for whom mastery of the build was too complicated or demanding. These players will probably be silent now that they can "top the meters" with a largely skill-stripped shell of a spec.
    I think people are playing up how much skill was involved with FR.

  9. #9689
    i dont know if i ever felt anything as awesome in wow (maybe mop destro) where you get two back to back ring procs, drop a CS and cleave a 4mil MS into 3 mobs in a m+ XD

    i do see the rng point tho, you dont get a tactician proc in your opener and you're playing catchup till execute phase. im sure tier set is the exact fix to that since you can bladestorm burst under cd's on every opener.

    anyone got any tips or tricks to share from their experience so far?

  10. #9690
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    Didn't think Arms could get more boring than FR but WW spam woooo

    At least the numbers I'm putting out are bananas

  11. #9691
    Nobody is talking about this but i am getting best dps with FoB+DC+AM with Cof trinket. talking about in game not sims.

    I may be doing something wrong to get this result but still the synergy between DC and FoB is solid. WW does more than 1.5m damage total(including trauma) and is easily spammable during BC if you have DC because it also refunds 3 rage. Too bad you lose IftK which would be great during BC and also we lost 1 sec on BC. but still..
    Last edited by LazyCoding; 2017-06-15 at 07:36 PM.

  12. #9692
    Quote Originally Posted by Dug View Post
    Didn't think Arms could get more boring than FR but WW spam woooo

    At least the numbers I'm putting out are bananas
    Yeah... I suspect the outcry will be / would be worse than FR if Arms put up mediocre damage yet fervor build was still top lol. I think half the people that are "ok" or "like" the fervor build are very much influenced by the monstrous damage.

  13. #9693
    Quote Originally Posted by LazyCoding View Post
    Nobody is talking about this but i am getting best dps with FoB+DC+AM with Cof trinket. talking about in game not sims.

    I may be doing something wrong to get this result but still the synergy between DC and FoB is solid. WW does more than 1.5m damage total(including trauma) and is easily spammable during BC if you have DC because it also refunds 3 rage. Too bad you lose IftK which would be great during BC and also we lost 1 sec on BC. but still..
    One positive thing about this patch at least is that there are a whole bunch of competitive builds that may come out of the woodwork depending on encounter type. That said I had a discussion with a fellow player/aquaintance that got so mad at me for suggesting this that he deleted me from realID because "that's not what the top warriors are doing".. Apparently reading and regurgitating the research of others, not understanding the full context and not doing your own research makes you an expert these days. God forbid you find results using a different build to the patch day 1 cookie cutter.

    But yeah, the cookie cutters like suggested in the compendium Vel puts together are definitely good but I've seen really strong results with a lot of weird setups, specifically with the T20 and specifically when Ravager is paired with COF, though not sure how the T20 nerfs affect that.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  14. #9694
    Quote Originally Posted by Anbokr View Post
    Yeah... I suspect the outcry will be / would be worse than FR if Arms put up mediocre damage yet fervor build was still top lol. I think half the people that are "ok" or "like" the fervor build are very much influenced by the monstrous damage.
    I like the fervor build because I hated FR.

  15. #9695
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    You ever done a M+ dungeon with War Machine Fury and a Sephuz ring equipped? It is like the most insanely crazy (in a good way) experiences one can have, I don't think Fury is in a bad place at all design wise, it's not my cup of tea for raiding but for sure it's pretty good, and a unique experience in dungeon play.

    And FR Arms, I loved it personally and I was very good at it, I find it interesting how often when it gets brought up that FR Arms was more complex and had great nuances and deep mastery, some 30% parsing player shows up to tell me how it was just spammy faceroll nonsense, and it's as if I don't know wtf I'm talking about with my 99% rankings and multiple rank 1 in bracket logs.. Yep the 30th percentile player is right, and I don't know anything. And i'm not making this up, on the official forums every time I talk Arms some pleb comes along and tells me I'm talking out of my ass and that Arms is easy. if I was in a raid with any of them I would leave them for dead, but I'm the clueless one of course.

    I have to be real, I haven't been taking WoW seriously since early EN progress, I've played very casually in a very low end casual guild and it has been months since I've done anything, I'm 4/10 mythic and I'm only that because I came back for 1 raid a few months ago to help out some mates.. So I'm not really that invested, but I am annoyed because I've been following this patch and doing my own theorycrafting, testing and investing some effort on the PTR because I was planning on maybe making an effort again in TOS.

    But I feel so deflated with it all, I just don't want to play Arms as it is.. I would just get so bored, I need a spec that has some tactical elements that keeps me thinking and I like it to be fast paced and demanding... Isn't that why people liked MOP Arms/Fury and Dragon Soul Arms? The right combination of tactical gameplay and high APM? If you make the spec braindead as it feels now then it just becomes bland to anyone who enjoys exploring the nuances of spec mastery.
    exactely. a playstyle that is fun and engaging, yet not too easy to master while rewarding superior decision making is what you are looking for in WOW after all these years

  16. #9696
    Deleted
    Hi, how much is rend/op build behind balerina? From what I have played on live, tried both (just lfr) and I must say rend is more fun that that balerina build. I mean there is not any great gap between these two build, maybe 2-3%? I need to test it in NH, but guild run is on sunday. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but rend is not used in execute phase right?

  17. #9697
    Quote Originally Posted by SSJ Nexxar View Post
    Hi, how much is rend/op build behind balerina? From what I have played on live, tried both (just lfr) and I must say rend is more fun that that balerina build. I mean there is not any great gap between these two build, maybe 2-3%? I need to test it in NH, but guild run is on sunday. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but rend is not used in execute phase right?
    run a pug and test it.

    its really close since trauma is 20% now

    we can pretty much use any build and still pull numbers, our core abilities hit hard AF

    execute phase is 2 execute > cs > huge ms, repeat. i dont think rend will be worth it since execute is way better dmg per rage than rend

  18. #9698
    Well, I'm glad FR is gone.
    Not sure what to think of arms right now but I never liked FR.

    I do hope Blizzard will go easy on the nerf bat this time around though. It's annoying not knowing what spec to play and having to grind AP for more than one.

  19. #9699
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Well, I'm glad FR is gone.
    Not sure what to think of arms right now but I never liked FR.

    I do hope Blizzard will go easy on the nerf bat this time around though. It's annoying not knowing what spec to play and having to grind AP for more than one.
    at this point you should have 52 in all specs, blizzard is known to destroy specs overnight (look at MM in 7.1.5 patch day, where you wont even get a raid spot untill they buff the spec over 4 weeks).

    i dont trust blizzard so i play all warrior specs and got atleast 52 and some legenderies i can use in said spec.

    the benefit of concordance past 52 is minimal at best so i rather do 1% less but have a spec i can switch to in the blink of an eye.

    arms can end up like fire mages in 7.3 so you better watch your 6.

  20. #9700
    I'm not entirely sure if I should spec FoB.
    Dauntless-Trauma-TM-IFTK-OppS seems quite nice.
    I'm not rage starved nor sated when with FoB, I could easily get rage starved or w/o CSmash at the ready due to no Tactitian procs or other reason.

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