Legion Demonology sounds like...

[Thragtusk]

We already have a pet spec, affliction

When you realize at the end of the day that pets always have been and always will be a DoT that sometimes just doesn't work!

[Sci Fi Samurai]

Disappointed. I'll still try it, but many of the things I loved about Demonology have been getting stripped since MoP. Really, demon hunters just sound like metamorphosis + dark apotheosis + visual polish. If Blizz can't make new classes anymore without taking from already existing classes, then I hope not to see anymore classes added.

[Kiljaedon]

We already have a pet spec, affliction

When you realize at the end of the day that pets always have been and always will be a DoT that sometimes just doesn't work!

Now you are just speaking semantics. Technically then healers are not really healers just deal damage by filling bars up and tanks do not really tank. They are just boss positioning specs. Technically then nothing in this game deals damage or heals. It is just a numbers game with input coming from the player to a keyboard that calculates hp values.

I will happily accept my dots coming from a pet then over a specific spell.

[Katchii]

I'm super excited about this. I know Meta has been there a long time, but my favorite time playing lock was when I was leveling as Demonology and had Imp Swarm, running around with 5-10 little demons just felt so awesome.

Really looking forward to this update.

[Deleted]

To make this concept of demonology even remotely viable they'll have to deal with the problem that the pet AI is garbage - pets either die, don't path properly, they're crap at target switching unless you micromanage them by having them on passive and commanding. Lost count of the fights where my felguard would lose his way and sit there like a lump. Plus the joys of trying to keep you and your pet alive because once it dies there goes a whacking great slice of damage


And of course, demonology will fail if the pets do heavy damage, because they don't want any class that just sits there summoning a pet that then does the work

My guess is that Demonology will be OP as hell to start just to get people to play it (and it'll be destruction's turn for the garbage can for a while; affliction will be okay, but that's because it's shit at AOE and burst anyway). Then the raids will start and players will realise that pet-dependent specs are rubbish because the AI is so bad and you have so little control, but it will be OP for Patchwerk fights

They'll then nerf it into the ground again

And go back to buffing their lovechild called hunter, which will always do good because it's the most played class and they won't have it anywhere except topping th emeters for fear people will just cancel their subs after losing their "lols I can do everything whilst moving and you can't" faceroll

[Gihelle]

To make this concept of demonology even remotely viable they'll have to deal with the problem that the pet AI is garbage - pets either die, don't path properly, they're crap at target switching unless you micromanage them by having them on passive and commanding. Lost count of the fights where my felguard would lose his way and sit there like a lump. Plus the joys of trying to keep you and your pet alive because once it dies there goes a whacking great slice of damage


And of course, demonology will fail if the pets do heavy damage, because they don't want any class that just sits there summoning a pet that then does the work

My guess is that Demonology will be OP as hell to start just to get people to play it (and it'll be destruction's turn for the garbage can for a while; affliction will be okay, but that's because it's shit at AOE and burst anyway). Then the raids will start and players will realise that pet-dependent specs are rubbish because the AI is so bad and you have so little control, but it will be OP for Patchwerk fights

They'll then nerf it into the ground again

And go back to buffing their lovechild called hunter, which will always do good because it's the most played class and they won't have it anywhere except topping th emeters for fear people will just cancel their subs after losing their "lols I can do everything whilst moving and you can't" faceroll

I feel like pet AI issues are largely solved by ranged pets - no need to deal with movement and pathing if they just sit there casting, right?

Would be nice if you had a UI to control the summons, though (or even just macro functions).

[Deleted]

But a ranged pet is boring, it's just a DOT effectively (yeah, so are melee pets, but at least they feel less that way)

Also, the signature demo pets were melee and I think that any of the big world ones they could reuse (or have us tame, I mean, enslave) are melee too

I'd love demo to have some really BIG badass looking demon, but I don't think we'll get one

[PickleballAce]

Ranged pets do solve some issues but the guardian AI even on ranged pets (Wild Imps, Doomguard) is still quite bad.

[Duckz0rs]

I feel like pet AI issues are largely solved by ranged pets - no need to deal with movement and pathing if they just sit there casting, right?

Would be nice if you had a UI to control the summons, though (or even just macro functions).

Ranged helps the Guardian AI, but not entirely. Wild Imps and Doomguards still can't target switch particularly well, sometimes even attacking random targets instead of assisting the player. The Doomguard is also kind of notorious for being summoned during his lunch break, during which he just.... stands there for the full duration (I had this quite consistently while summoning the doomguard between hans'gar and franzoks conveyor belts for example).

[jackvii]

The Doomguard is also kind of notorious for being summoned during his lunch break, during which he just.... stands there for the full duration (I had this quite consistently while summoning the doomguard between hans'gar and franzoks conveyor belts for example).

Happens when the Doomguard loses it's target for whatever reason.

That's why the Infernal is sometimes the better council pet, at least it does something when it's target dies.

[Radazar]

You can play demonology with pets in 6.0 if you like. It's the best you can get.
Again, there is no gameplay in world of warcraft around pets. Pets are just HP bars that runs with you. If you have them - you have 2 abilities. thats all. Demonology was never about pets in 10 years of wow. But for some reason blizz think they should invent new gameplay in a spec that NEVER had anything to do with pets(except its name).
And yeah, Meta has been there for fucking seven years.

So, nothing to say about pets and "new awesome pet gameplay"? Don't bother, pets have no redeeming qualities.

Did you even play the spec at all? In vanilla WoW the spec was all about your pets, you had to pick the right one for the right buff, problem was every time blizz made a spell that didt do much damage but nuffed your pets damage, original demon bolt, people cryed because the spec focused on their pets and rhey where not doing big numbers like everyobe else

[wholol]

Anticipated these changes a while back, honestly gladly looking forward to this spec, hopefully they'll fine tune it properly and not make it boring, as most people seem to think it's the "BM hunter version" although imo it'll be more like 10x what BM hunters can do even with zoo.

[Jetjaguar]

I can't believe the amount of demo circlejerking literally carried by Metamorphosis, originally a demon hunter spell. I remember when demo was a worthless sack of a spec that you were forced to drudge through to get soul link. For once, demo will get a real look through with good design rather than a incoherent bundle of abilities with cumbersome stance dancing

[Mattysaiyan]

I honestly haven't liked Demonology since they moved Meta from a hard CD to a on/off form. I'm interested to see what they do that could make me replay the spec and seeing as you'll be able to play all 3 specs (albeit artifact progression limiting) I remain hopeful while having a safety net of my classic Aff/Destro gameplay.

[Akakishin]

And what if a big portion of our damage comes from these secondary demons aka guardian pets? gg target priority? Hell even felguard fucks it up sometimes to switch targets. Im not trying to be negative here, I like it. Im just concerned that it will ruin the experience for us.

[Deleted]

It looks like a really interesting path to follow for Demonology, my favourite time playing a Demonology Warlock was during path 5.2, with this iteration moving miles away from it. The concept sounds epic on paper, but in reality if they don't continue to improve pathing and AI it won't be an optimal raiding spec. I don't really enjoy micro managing pets that much either, especially in a raiding environment.

[Deleted]

+1 for D2 nec

- - - Updated - - -

We already have a pet spec, affliction

When you realize at the end of the day that pets always have been and always will be a DoT that sometimes just doesn't work!

Aff was never a pet spec.

[Radaney]

Yep. WoW's pet AI (as it stands) is unreliable at the best of times. There's a reason they've been adding options for pet classes/specs to play petless (Grimoire of Sacrifice/Lone Wolf/etc).

I don't think that's the reason at all, I think it's you know for more choice? The thing that ultimately makes players happy more than anything else.

[Linri]

sounds cool to me, i really like how blizzard set it up.. I think it will be a lot of fun

[Woz]

Novx and I have decided that in the interest of keeping the forum a bit cleaner in terms of discussion that we would make 3 "Meta" threads, 1 for each spec, in regards to the changes in Legion.

Demonology: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ock-Discussion

Destruction: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ock-Discussion

Affliction: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ock-Discussion

The purpose of this isn't to limit discussion but more to make it so we don't end up with 6 threads on the exact same topic. If you want to discuss something very specific or a niche topic, such as how the heirloom looks, or something similar to that feel free to make a new topic but let's try to keep everything nice, clean, and civil.