[BETA] Demonology Warlock Discussion

[Deleted]

Yeah we'll see when Blizz provides more information or the beta hits the floor.

[Kirroth]

Seems pretty clear to me.

Ah, thank you. I think I was focused on the second part and missed the first.

So the 5 SS HoG isn't something you can do from a cold start, unless there's a talent for a cooldown that gives you 5 SS on demand. Which I wouldn't be surprised if there is, since Shadow has something like that as their sample talent. But it's still something to shoot for with bosses that have a "wave of adds that have to die ASAP" mechanic.

On the topic of the Devs rolling back opening burst globally, that's one of those things that's a great goal so long as it really does get applied globally. It'll suck if some specs lose it and some don't. Though honestly I rather hope they do manage to do it. I miss PvP, and rolling back opening burst is really needed to get me back into it.

[volrat]

I greatly dislike the changes to Demonology, as i have stated a lot of time in this forum:

The complete removal of the gameplay associated with Meta is very drastic to my eyes, especially considering the very same gameplay is being added to SPriest.

The lack of any progression on a dedicated strong main demon deludes me a lot.

The idea of hoards of imps swarming is very far from my vision of demon master.

The double stalker is essentially what you get from GoSer with felhound.

the artifact itself is just like a companion pet.

For me, the designers ruined the class i am playing since years, from the very beginning, a lot of times we have seen Blizz experiment and fail designing Demonology, starting over with the idea of a demonic shepherd with imps in place of sheeps and dreadstalkers in place of dogs displease much and will probably force me to take other ways; i am sure all those that didn't love the class and the spec rejoice of the dmg done, for all the others, farwell.

[Deleted]

I greatly dislike the changes to Demonology, as i have stated a lot of time in this forum:

The complete removal of the gameplay associated with Meta is very drastic to my eyes, especially considering the very same gameplay is being added to SPriest.

The lack of any progression on a dedicated strong main demon deludes me a lot.

The idea of hoards of imps swarming is very far from my vision of demon master.

The double stalker is essentially what you get from GoSer with felhound.

the artifact itself is just like a companion pet.

For me, the designers ruined the class i am playing since years, from the very beginning, a lot of times we have seen Blizz experiment and fail designing Demonology, starting over with the idea of a demonic shepherd with imps in place of sheeps and dreadstalkers in place of dogs displease much and will probably force me to take other ways; i am sure all those that didn't love the class and the spec rejoice of the dmg done, for all the others, farwell.

Some players like the Meta game play others like me not, from a visual point the Meta was a little bit outdated.
The Shadow mechanic looks interesting, Dia Darkwispher 2.0

The strongest Demon should be the Felguard/Wrathguard in my opinion. It's a nice bad ass melee demon.

From the lore point its a lot more easier to summon 25 Imps instead of 5 Felguards and control them.

Fel Stalkers are not the same as Fel Hounds, so different types and spells.
GoServ -> double Felguard + 3 Stalkers + 5-10 Imps

The artifact is an off hand but the visual is a flying skull -> awesome, reminds me of Crash Bandicoot with the Masks

I think for the biggest part of Warlock players the Demo changes are good. For all others it's sad but that's live.

[xskarma]

Demonic leap?

Since no one answered this: They have said they're looking at it, but it's very likely going away.

[Duckz0rs]

Fel Stalkers are not the same as Fel Hounds, so different types and spells.
GoServ -> double Felguard + 3 Stalkers + 5-10 Imps

That's actually less demons than we have at the moment, especially with the class trinket.

GoServ -> double Felguard + 25 imps + Doomguard on 10 min cd.

So our hordes of demons are, so far, less imps and 2 dogs added.

[Deleted]

That's actually less demons than we have at the moment, especially with the class trinket.

GoServ -> double Felguard + 25 imps + Doomguard on 10 min cd.

So our hordes of demons are, so far, less imps and 2 dogs added.

We don't know which demons came from the artifact and if you summon only 1 or more demons with GoServ.
So at least 1 Felguard, 1 Doomguard/Infernal, 2 Dogs, 1 Demon from GoServ and 5-10 Imps (depending on the shard regen) at the same time with the current information.
It could also be possible that the Fel Imps use the model of the Imps from Xhul instead of the current tiny ones.

I wouldn't compare the current class trinket with the Legion Artifact.

[Shayan]

The new demo mechanics seem fine but incomplete. I believe speculation has to w8 untill we see the talents. 7 rows of them meaning we're missing around 4-5 abilities that could potentially come in to fill or smoothe our rotation flaws.

back on the topic: metamorphosis going away is good imo. don't get me wrong even I feel a little hurt because the metamorphosis fantasy is being taken away but back in warlords we are practically shit as caster and only roughly "on par" with other casters in demon form due to balance issues. in legion even though they've painted a rather clear picture of how much dependant we're gonna be on pets/guardians for dps I still hope for some talents or mechanics that can passively or conditionally direct power back into the caster itself to take control of some dps situations personally. I'm rly on boat with the concern of pet AI eventually letting us down.

for example we can see that shadowbolt is now merely a utility spell that's being cast for it's excellent shard generation mechanic. it does "minor" damage with "2.5 second" cast. plus doom has to be only cast on boss, mini boss, or the "fat guy in the pack". this altogether comes to me as "either I can't switch targets" or "there has got to be some excellent target switching mechanincs there they haven't told us about".

one last note/concern/question:
anyone wondering why we haven't seen the darksoul cooldown in none of the 3 spec's ability listings? other specs major cooldowns seem clearly listed in their respective blogs...

[Deleted]

Cautiously optimistic for these changes. Like others have said, I hope they improve the pet AI if these dreadstalkers are going to be a big part of damage.

Bit dissapointed that there seems to be only 1 type of demon we manually summon in the rotation, unless talents will include more.

I don't really like the skull as a weapon, I'd much prefer the destruction staff. But I guess I'm grateful that it's not a wand or a dagger.

[Deleted]

AW was also not mentioned in the Pala class preview and I think it's the major DPS CD for Ret pallys.

Personally I like the weapon for Affli most, but the Destro Staff with wings in fell green looks good.

[6kle]

Losing demonic leap is a massive mobility penalty.

No more instant Touch of Chaos and HoG having a cast time is a massive mobility penalty.

You might not even have a snare to slow down your target but you have to hard cast most of your stuff.

It doesn't look like fun gameplay.

[Maleific]

They haven't said anything about any cooldowns from what I can see outside of Combustion.

[Deleted]

I can't wait to try the new demo warlock. The spec sounds great, no more you play for the meta It's about your horde of minions now. I understand some will hate the changes, since it's a complete overhaul and the opposite of what demo warlock was for the past few years.

These changes along with affliction changes intrigue me enough to level up my alt and even perhaps main it, even though shadow priest also looks interesting (and reminds me of old demo in some aspects).

/facepalm

You can summon different demons to attack and tank different mobs. You will basically always be in a group as a demo warlock. Stronger mobs will be tanked by your powerful demons while being obliterated by the same group of demons. You can enslave even stronger demons.

[Duckz0rs]

We don't know which demons came from the artifact and if you summon only 1 or more demons with GoServ.
So at least 1 Felguard, 1 Doomguard/Infernal, 2 Dogs, 1 Demon from GoServ and 5-10 Imps (depending on the shard regen) at the same time with the current information.
It could also be possible that the Fel Imps use the model of the Imps from Xhul instead of the current tiny ones.

I wouldn't compare the current class trinket with the Legion Artifact.

What? I'm not comparing the class trinket with the artifact. I'm saying we have more demons now than we will have in Legion based off what we know. Your post only reinforced this further.

1 felguard + 1 doomguard + 2 dogs + 1 goserv + 5-10 imps = 10-15 demons. (Legion)

1 felguard + 1 doomguard + 1 goserv + 20-25 imps = 23-28 demons. (WoD)

[6kle]

New Demo looks like pvp heaven:

If your target simply runs away, your imps and dogs won't do any damage to him and finally just despawn. Jump down from a ledge and watch your dps run away or get stuck. No more leap. You are a slow moving cloth caster with no mobility or snares/roots who has to do his damage with cast time spells standing still. Shut up and take my money Blizzard!

[volrat]

Some players like the Meta game play others like me not, from a visual point the Meta was a little bit outdated.
The Shadow mechanic looks interesting, Dia Darkwispher 2.0

The strongest Demon should be the Felguard/Wrathguard in my opinion. It's a nice bad ass melee demon.

From the lore point its a lot more easier to summon 25 Imps instead of 5 Felguards and control them.

Fel Stalkers are not the same as Fel Hounds, so different types and spells.
GoServ -> double Felguard + 3 Stalkers + 5-10 Imps

The artifact is an off hand but the visual is a flying skull -> awesome, reminds me of Crash Bandicoot with the Masks

I think for the biggest part of Warlock players the Demo changes are good. For all others it's sad but that's live.

Well, disliking the meta in demonology is like disliking DoTs on Affliction, it means you were disliking the spec; i understand that for these players having a new option is an opportunity, but taking COMPLETELY away a gameplay style is not the best way to deal with a community, there were a solid number of players liking it, it is obvious that a large majority were not (otherwise they were all playing demo) but ignoring entirely the community that was following that class development is like admitting to have been wrong all the time.
NOW, you are asking to trust Blizz, but you were the first not trusting them with meta design for 8 years.

They are not denying the fun that playstyle has, in fact giving it to a class/spec they dimm being boring, ShadowPriest, so merging Affliction/Demonology gameplay into another class.

Again, trusting blizzard work is not something i didn't in the past, i tried my best to adapt to the many attemps they have made with demonology, redesignin it from
the ground after 10 years is not like a coming back to roots, massive imp summoning is not our roots by anymeans, it just look funny and somewhat hylarious to ppl who was not playing demonology.


As for the main demon, having the same one from tbc is not exciting, if you look at Hunters, with all the problems they have, they still managed to change and improve the pet related to the class in each exp, and from my point of view this aid a lot to revitalize a pet based spec/class, you havent been playing demo as much as me probably, so a FG or WG looks nice to you because is a chenge for you.

Let alone lore on imp/sheep hoards and dreadstalkers/dogs, there is no lore on this field aside the lore they will build now for this Warlock/Imp Shepher.

The artifat is actually a STAFF, if it is an offhand you would be able to equip a main hand, and visually it is exatly like a companion pet, like the floating skull or the various fragments of anger etc... it may look cool, even unique, but i am pretty sure when you will see it in beta you realize what i mean.

In the end, I know that demo was going to change, and i agree with that, but the way they are doing it is too stupid by lore/visual/and game mechanic PoV; that's my opinion.

[Deleted]

Not happy about them removing Meta after which by the time the expansion actually drops won't be far off a decade of it being in the game.

Wondering though if since they keep going on about "waves of demons" why they don't go all out and just straight up give us Archimonde's classic "Reign of Chaos" Warcraft 3 ability. It's not like Infernals do much damage anyway :P.

[volrat]

Not happy about them removing Meta after which by the time the expansion actually drops won't be far off a decade of it being in the game.

Wondering though if since they keep going on about "waves of demons" why they don't go all out and just straight up give us Archimonde's classic "Reign of Chaos" Warcraft 3 ability. It's not like Internals do much damage anyway :P.

That should be the way, some grandeur to try to compensate, at least visually/thematically, waves of imps makes ppl lough for a whyle, but i doubt someone will be attracted for too long to an imp shepher (immagine a gnome or goblin being the master of tons of exploding, demon riding imps....hylarious, but honestly NOT OUR ROOTS)

[Deleted]

Well, disliking the meta in demonology is like disliking DoTs on Affliction, it means you were disliking the spec; i understand that for these players having a new option is an opportunity, but taking COMPLETELY away a gameplay style is not the best way to deal with a community, there were a solid number of players liking it, it is obvious that a large majority were not (otherwise they were all playing demo) but ignoring entirely the community that was following that class development is like admitting to have been wrong all the time.
NOW, you are asking to trust Blizz, but you were the first not trusting them with meta design for 8 years.

They are not denying the fun that playstyle has, in fact giving it to a class/spec they dimm being boring, ShadowPriest, so merging Affliction/Demonology gameplay into another class.

Again, trusting blizzard work is not something i didn't in the past, i tried my best to adapt to the many attemps they have made with demonology, redesignin it from
the ground after 10 years is not like a coming back to roots, massive imp summoning is not our roots by anymeans, it just look funny and somewhat hylarious to ppl who was not playing demonology.


As for the main demon, having the same one from tbc is not exciting, if you look at Hunters, with all the problems they have, they still managed to change and improve the pet related to the class in each exp, and from my point of view this aid a lot to revitalize a pet based spec/class, you havent been playing demo as much as me probably, so a FG or WG looks nice to you because is a chenge for you.

Let alone lore on imp/sheep hoards and dreadstalkers/dogs, there is no lore on this field aside the lore they will build now for this Warlock/Imp Shepher.

The artifat is actually a STAFF, if it is an offhand you would be able to equip a main hand, and visually it is exatly like a companion pet, like the floating skull or the various fragments of anger etc... it may look cool, even unique, but i am pretty sure when you will see it in beta you realize what i mean.

In the end, I know that demo was going to change, and i agree with that, but the way they are doing it is too stupid by lore/visual/and game mechanic PoV; that's my opinion.

I didn't liked the Demo since Blizz introduced the Meta form and the game play. Also I didn't really like the Imp swarms (but Imps riding down on a meteor is kinda hilarious).
I also didn't like the whole sacrifice your demon as Warlock and the reduce of the DoTs or Curses, but that's life.

Sure it would be nice to have for another main Demon as Demo lock, but which Demon you would use? Pit Lord Maggi or Supreme Lord Kazzak would be a little bit over the top.
They needs to implement another model with the same stats then the current Felguard that not everybody would switch the demon.
Because nobody like it when you create/change something and then a couple of months it got trashed (rework of the Felguard model and then short time after, Hey guys look at the new awesome new main Demon for Demolock).

[Deleted]

The Implosion talent should do fire damage I'd say. Imps are little fire wielding devils so a big fiery explosion of imp body parts would look better I'd say.