1. #1

    Some Ideas to Improve the Guild System

    Several years ago, most of you remember, creating a new character and logging on would have you so flooded with guild invites that you had to turn off guild invites so that you could level.

    A month or so ago, I created a new toon on a new realm for something to do. I made sure to turn on guild invites, because I was hoping to do some pvp while leveling and would want some people to queue with. No guild invites.

    So I checked out the guild finder and scrolled for almost 20 minutes. Nearly every guild that was listed as leveling, pvp, or even casual raiding had no players online. I applied to some guilds, and left that open as well. I tried this every day for a several days. Every guild recruiting on forums was looking for weekly raiders and required registering on other websites- all too annoying for just having a dude I wanted to casually play on and do some pvp once in a while.

    The point is- guilds have gone completely stagnant and are desperately in need of fixing, lest the social aspect of WoW die forever.

    So here in a couple common sense ideas that may solve the problem.

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    1. Allow anyone to create a guild, and make it a more obvious feature to new players.

    Say you reach level 10, and get a new quest that is to join a guild. It gives you two ways to turn it in, either by joining a guild on the guild finder, or creating your own. Create your own guild? Sure, why not. Maybe that random noob has a magnetic personality, and could keep other noobs interested in the game as they are recruited.

    It's also time to end the charter. No noob trying to create a guild is going to be able to find 10 players in Stormwind to sign anything. It was annoying but possible several years ago when people were everywhere, but sounds like a massive pain in the ass to do now. Honestly, this has stopped me from trying to just make a new guild and recruit people for it to just hang out.

    2. Delist Inactive Guilds

    Should be self evident. Just remove guilds from the guild finder if the character that listed it hasn't been on in ~30 days, and send mailbox message to the guild officers that they have been delisted. If they are still recruited, it shouldn't be any trouble for the officers to put it back up.

    3. Improve Guild Finder Notifications & Member Request

    Add an option to send a mail message to a certain guild rank or ranks so that they can be added when a player is online to do so. In addition, have that player automatically added to the guild if they are offline (if that isn't already the case with active requests). It shouldn't be a matter of "getting people at the right time." Such things could be disheartening for a new player that wants to find friends but doesn't really want to go out of their way. Remember, for most of us, it was much easier to find a guild when there were 12 million players, and we had real life friends that played. That was my experience, but it just isn't the case anymore.

    4. Make Guild Benefits More Apparent

    There are already a lot of good reasons to be in a guild. Maybe add or elaborate on those features with an easier to read and easy to understand list of benefits on the guild panel. Make new player accounts aware of this the first time the join a guild on that account.

    For instance, maybe a new player had no idea that they get more experience in a guild, because they wouldn't think to look in their spellbook for passive bonuses. Why would that be in the spellbook? An easy to read list of these things might go a long way.

    5. Provide More Passive Benefits for Guild Play That Doesn't Require a High Guild Level

    Maybe getting a few percent bonus loot and xp from dungeons, more xp and honor for random BGs and stuff, dependent on what your rep rank with guild is and how many guild members you are queuing with would not on incentivise new players to be more gung-ho about guild play, but also get older players that have had their friends quit have another reason to keep going and find new people to play with.

    This should not be dependent on the level of the guild. There are already bonuses for that and in my opinion, guild leveling has only benefitted huge guilds. It should be a feature that attracts people to high level guilds, but largely has just discredited smaller, low level guilds.

    6. Provide Physical Benefits to Helping a Low Level Guild Level Up/Get Milestones/Achievements

    Maybe there could be little xp bonus/gold bonus for getting the 1000th guild pvp kill, or being in the first guild group to clear a certain dungeon or to win two's in a certain area. There should be a benefit to helping a new guild achieve, large enough to not dissuade veterans from joining a new guild, but small enough to discourage guild drifters who pray on new guilds for bonuses, but have no intention to stay in that guild. This will probably not be full proof, so possibly only allow getting those benefits once a month or something. Just an idea.

    7. Allow New Guilds to Claim Old Names

    This is probably the most controversial. Allow new guilds to claim old guild names. There would have to be some strict requirement, but if a guild master hasn't logged in a year and no one has claimed the guild, there isn't really any reason for its name to be trapped with inactive players. Just allow new people to claim the name, and give a name change to the next time the GM logs in, or an officer claims the guild.

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    Making it easy and obvious for people to find more people to play with, in my opinion, would be a huge improvement of the game. One of the main reasons I think we reached 12 million in the first place was that it used to be so easy to find a group of people to play with and get to know. Most of us had people in the real world to play with, and so many of the established guilds were formed and leveled immediately after guild leveling was added. I haven't seen many new guilds grow and have found it hard to even find a guild to join.

    I know this is a wall of text, and I know the ideas are not perfect, but we've really got to do something about this if we want WoW to stick around and certainly if you want it to grow.

    I also know there are lots of guild events and cool ideas people have already come up with but I wanted to stick to smaller, less resource intensive solutions.

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Issalice's Avatar
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    I really would like the to take another pass at guilds before Legion launches. I do like the suggestions you've made as well. I made an alt on Zul'jin US (high pop) didn't get a single guild invite while leveling. I couldn't believe it.

  3. #3
    Field Marshal Anira's Avatar
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    I remember when guild levels were introduced, my guild at the time and a few others on the server had a friendly competition to see who could reach 25 first. It really got everyone socializing and playing the game. I would love to see them do something fun like that with guilds again.

    I also like the idea Blizzard mentioned at Blizzcon about a future guild system that would allow us to join more than one guild at a time. I know quite a few people who have to be in their guild for raiding but would love to join a more social guild or a PVP one.

    Quote Originally Posted by PolarityER View Post

    1. Allow anyone to create a guild, and make it a more obvious feature to new players.

    You make some great points but this one I especially agree with. I remember creating a guild and it took forever to get the signatures I required for my charter, it was awful!
    Me? Sarcastic? Never.

  4. #4
    Deleted
    Encouraging new players to make their own guild and be forever alone in it is a terrible idea, and requiring signatures is a good way to prevent this from accidentally happening, sorry if it's inconvenient when you want to make a personal guildbank. but a quest informing people about guilds is a great idea.

    Now the guildfinder does indeed need a major rework, and they have said things to the effect of looking into guilds in general in the near ish future. wouldn't be surprised to see it in 7.2 orso.

    I don't think guilds needs perks perse, virtually anybody is in a guild anyways so it doesn't matter. I think benefits, if any, should instead focus on doing things while in a guild group. That way being in a guild actually encourages you to do what guilds are supposed to do, encourage social activity. to use your example: don't get 10% bonus exp for just being in a guild, get 10% bonus exp for doing a dungeon with 3-4 guildies.

  5. #5
    Nice post, there are literally so many improvements that could be made to WoW's old old guild system and I hope it gets updated at or soon after legion.. it was one of the biggest things I was hoping for since being in so many failed guilds and not being able to find one.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Him of Many Faces View Post
    Encouraging new players to make their own guild and be forever alone in it is a terrible idea, and requiring signatures is a good way to prevent this from accidentally happening, sorry if it's inconvenient when you want to make a personal guildbank. but a quest informing people about guilds is a great idea.
    In this I'm just trying to get more people to try and make guilds, I wasn't thinking about personal guild banks. It's just such a pain to get signatures, I couldn't imagine trying to rally 10 strangers to sign a charter now. That was hard to find when there were millions more players. I don't think players should be encouraged to be forever alone, once their guild it created they would be shown how to list it and how to recruit. I would assume most new people would actually go for "join existing" because it would be still easier to just click the guild ui tab and find one that sounds cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Him of Many Faces View Post
    I don't think guilds needs perks perse, virtually anybody is in a guild anyways so it doesn't matter. I think benefits, if any, should instead focus on doing things while in a guild group. That way being in a guild actually encourages you to do what guilds are supposed to do, encourage social activity. to use your example: don't get 10% bonus exp for just being in a guild, get 10% bonus exp for doing a dungeon with 3-4 guildies.
    That's what I'm trying to get at with some of my points about getting bonuses based on how many guildies are in a group. I doubt they would remove already in place bonuses, especially relating to experience since there are going to be 110 levels now.

    Thanks for your feedback.

  7. #7
    The Patient
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    Do you think there is a correlation between the removal of many of the old guild perks and the decline in /ginvites to your new level 1?
    Terms used by morons: "passive-aggressive", "lol", "lel", "kek", "um", "welp", "dat", "legendberries", & "you do realize".
    People who use "/thread" are not morons - even morons aren't that fucked up.
    But for abject, pathetic stupidity - nobody beats the "Hay if u dont play wow why u on theez bords lol" crowd.

  8. #8
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by PolarityER View Post
    In this I'm just trying to get more people to try and make guilds, I wasn't thinking about personal guild banks. It's just such a pain to get signatures, I couldn't imagine trying to rally 10 strangers to sign a charter now. That was hard to find when there were millions more players. I don't think players should be encouraged to be forever alone, once their guild it created they would be shown how to list it and how to recruit. I would assume most new people would actually go for "join existing" because it would be still easier to just click the guild ui tab and find one that sounds cool.
    .
    I don't think it's to much to ask that if you want to make a guild, you should have at least some people interested in joining it :P

    10 is on the high side though.

  9. #9
    1.) I could have sworn you only need 5 players for a guild charter now. This was changed some time ago due to complaints of needing 10 people.

    2.) Delisting the guild if the GM is inactive for a month would be good. Or put an expiration on the guild listing so it only lasts a week. The GM would have to renew it weekly to keep it up, otherwise it delists automatically.

    3.) There's likely a limitation to inviting people when they're offline. You can't kick people via the guild list when they're offline, either, although you can use the /kick [name] command, if I remember right. Blizzard would have to fix that first.

    4.) Fast Track (the xp guild perk) got removed with WoD. What remains doesn't matter too much. Mount up is just faster riding speed, hasty hearth is a faster hearthstone CD, mobile banking gives you the guild bank anywhere, quick and the dead is faster movement when dead, guild mail is instant mail between guildies, and then mass rez. None of those are really "must haves" for someone leveling. Guilds also no longer have levels. Only thing people might consider "must haves" to level would be heirlooms, but do you really want a newbie to join your guild and then beg for gold to buy the heirlooms?

    5.) If you group with a friend in WoD LFD/LFR, you get a buff called Luck of the Draw. Gives you extra gold when you finish the dungeon. Blizzard can't really incentive it more because they penalize those who have friends in other guilds or on other servers.

    6.) There are guild achievements such as clearing dungeons in a guild group, killing so many critters, etc. Issue is, Blizzard has to balance the achievements for large guilds just as much as they have to balance for small ones. They put the numbers too low, large guilds complete them too fast while making it too high causes small guilds to take forever. Blizzard's also not going to promote higher levels helping lower levels. They're trying to murder that play style with zone scaling. If it gets expanded to older content, then there's no more running lower levels through dungeons like Strat, Ramparts, etc unless you have a full group and you're doing it the old fashioned way because the content now scales to you. I have little interest in doing old dungeons at the level let alone having the dungeon scale to me (or vice versa) so I can do them as if they're relevant.

    7.) Think you already can claim old guild names or could a while back. Make a ticket and a GM can potentially let you claim it.

    You can't search for players below level 20 anymore so you won't see automatic guild invites below that level unless the person actually sees you or you request an invite. You also have to be subscribed or have a toon already in the guild if you're currently not subscribed (so on a starter edition account) to join a guild. Due to starter edition accounts, it's not likely Blizzard will promote people making guilds. Then there's also guild banks. Allowing guild creation to be easier would just mean everyone would have their own personal bank to hoard various things and gold. That means even more guilds that aren't really guilds but just banks and less people in the pool to potentially recruit.

    It's rather hard to give people a reason to be in a guild anymore. Honestly, I avoid guilds because I got tired of dealing with dicks. Then there's the issue that guilds die as often as they're created. You can't force people to log in and keep a guild active. Just because you invite someone doesn't mean they'll do anything with the guild. I have 2 toons in guilds right now. I log in, I do my follower missions, I maybe hit the salvage yard with my crates, I log out. One guild attempted to get into raiding. That died a week after I joined and the guild went from 10-15 people online at a time to 0-2. No one cared. Blizzard has to give people a reason to play and a reason to interact with others. If people have a reason to play, then people will join guilds with like-minded players. WoD offers so little that many just don't care right now. Will Legion fix it? Who knows. But no matter what Blizzard does, they can't fix something that's effectively a player created issue.

    Honestly, I'd rather Blizzard just do cross realm guilds and let us join guilds on any server. Those on dead servers can then find people on high pop ones but still remain on their lower pop server. Also lets you find far more people to play with that may be closer to your play style. Connected realms was a step toward mega servers so cross realm guilds are only a matter of time.

  10. #10
    I moved a lvl 100 to a low pop RP server for server hoping with my other account. I've been there almost a year and I have NEVER had a guild invite on that char. EVER.

    I logged into one of my really old accounts on Stormrage (US) and I had 2 guild invites before I finished seeing what was in my bank...

    I think it also depends on the server and time you are on.

    Before with guilds wanting people to help level it to 25, guild invites were always a big deal.

    I think it totally shit on the players taking away the guild level system. Saying it was a "barrier" for new guilds go improve was bullshit. I have like 5-6 guilds I was working up towards lvl 25 and just doing it solo on alts, I had a lot of them over lvl 10. If I had a few ppl to do dungeon runs together or pvp together for guild group bonuses I could have hit 25 in a couple months.

    They were right that the perks were too powerful, but wrong in taking away the levels.

    Something needs to be done as there is no reason to really invite new ppl to a guild outside of wanting raiders.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by guardian_titan View Post
    1.) I could have sworn you only need 5 players for a guild charter now. This was changed some time ago due to complaints of needing 10 people.
    That still would be extremely hard to find for a new player.

    Quote Originally Posted by guardian_titan View Post
    2.) Delisting the guild if the GM is inactive for a month would be good. Or put an expiration on the guild listing so it only lasts a week. The GM would have to renew it weekly to keep it up, otherwise it delists automatically.
    Good suggestion. I thought a week was a little aggressive, but maybe we need more aggressive solutions.

    Quote Originally Posted by guardian_titan View Post
    3.) There's likely a limitation to inviting people when they're offline. You can't kick people via the guild list when they're offline, either, although you can use the /kick [name] command, if I remember right. Blizzard would have to fix that first.
    Good point, I didn't know that.

    Quote Originally Posted by guardian_titan View Post
    4.) Fast Track (the xp guild perk) got removed with WoD. What remains doesn't matter too much. Mount up is just faster riding speed, hasty hearth is a faster hearthstone CD, mobile banking gives you the guild bank anywhere, quick and the dead is faster movement when dead, guild mail is instant mail between guildies, and then mass rez. None of those are really "must haves" for someone leveling. Guilds also no longer have levels. Only thing people might consider "must haves" to level would be heirlooms, but do you really want a newbie to join your guild and then beg for gold to buy the heirlooms?
    I didn't realize they removed all that. No wonder no one is hyped to create guilds. There should be more reasons to join guilds, not less.

    Quote Originally Posted by guardian_titan View Post
    5.) If you group with a friend in WoD LFD/LFR, you get a buff called Luck of the Draw. Gives you extra gold when you finish the dungeon. Blizzard can't really incentive it more because they penalize those who have friends in other guilds or on other servers.
    I remember luck of the draw being a buff based on how many strangers are with you, to make dungeons easier since you are working with strangers. Perhaps they changed it. Either way, I'm not talking about making content easier, just rewarding grouping with guildies. Maybe apply the same buff working with guildies as with working with RealID friends would be a more realistic solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by guardian_titan View Post
    6.) There are guild achievements such as clearing dungeons in a guild group, killing so many critters, etc. Issue is, Blizzard has to balance the achievements for large guilds just as much as they have to balance for small ones. They put the numbers too low, large guilds complete them too fast while making it too high causes small guilds to take forever. Blizzard's also not going to promote higher levels helping lower levels. They're trying to murder that play style with zone scaling. If it gets expanded to older content, then there's no more running lower levels through dungeons like Strat, Ramparts, etc unless you have a full group and you're doing it the old fashioned way because the content now scales to you. I have little interest in doing old dungeons at the level let alone having the dungeon scale to me (or vice versa) so I can do them as if they're relevant.
    IMO, guild achievements should be based around having ~20-30 individuals (excluding alts). That is what the content is designed around. Guild achievements should be made for a realistically sized group of people to complete with a little bit of work. For people that are in active guilds, historically (before Cata and the original leveling changes and before megaguilds became the standard) this is the optimal amount of people and should be what they aim for.

    Quote Originally Posted by guardian_titan View Post
    7.) Think you already can claim old guild names or could a while back. Make a ticket and a GM can potentially let you claim it.
    A new player would never think to do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by guardian_titan View Post
    You can't search for players below level 20 anymore so you won't see automatic guild invites below that level unless the person actually sees you or you request an invite. You also have to be subscribed or have a toon already in the guild if you're currently not subscribed (so on a starter edition account) to join a guild. Due to starter edition accounts, it's not likely Blizzard will promote people making guilds. Then there's also guild banks. Allowing guild creation to be easier would just mean everyone would have their own personal bank to hoard various things and gold. That means even more guilds that aren't really guilds but just banks and less people in the pool to potentially recruit.
    That's a good point, but what if you took what I said about a level 10 quest and made it level 20? What if instead of finding 5 players to sign a charter, you could do a medium length quest chain that explains how guilds work and includes tips for recruiting? There could be something else in place, maybe your guild gets removed if there is a period of 30 days after creation without any recruits? Of course people would get around that, but at least it's something and currently there is nothing. The idea is that it makes the creation process new and compelling for new players. Hoarding is bad, but what's worse would be new players having trouble starting a guild, imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by guardian_titan View Post
    Honestly, I'd rather Blizzard just do cross realm guilds and let us join guilds on any server. Those on dead servers can then find people on high pop ones but still remain on their lower pop server. Also lets you find far more people to play with that may be closer to your play style. Connected realms was a step toward mega servers so cross realm guilds are only a matter of time.
    Here I definitely disagree. Letting people join guilds from other servers would certainly do nothing for the problem. That is like taking the current problem, and putting it on a bigger scale. Initially, new players would have more guild options, but this would settle and soon be exactly like this. It would also propagate the megaguild system that I believe is stopping new guilds from starting up by making existing large guilds bigger, and having even fewer people in the pool for new guilds.

  12. #12
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by PolarityER View Post
    The point is- guilds have gone completely stagnant and are desperately in need of fixing, lest the social aspect of WoW die forever.
    I don't think your points would tackle the problem. It would just create a bunch of meaningless guilds and you'd get spammed to join guilds that are just empty shells providing perks.

    The real issue is that running a guild well takes a lot of effort and dedication. This goes for all kinds of guilds, leveling, pvp, casual, raiding. You need people that are willing to spend a lot of time organizing and running things for the other players to enjoy. I was an officer is a casual raiding guild, and it was like a part time job. That isn't a problem in itself, but it becomes a problem when the kinds of people that used to run the guilds no longer feel like they get value for their efforts. WoW is essentially a solo game today, building a PvE guild no longer rewards you in any way (outside of hardcore raiding). And I'm not talking about rewards like guild perks, I'm talking about things like being able to tackle harder dungeons or finish dungeons faster with a guild group. Or the ability to see content you couldn't see any other way (e.g., building a Kara guild in TBC).

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