Rogues & Shamans... are you satisfied?

[Golden]

I don't really care how many buttons there are. When Blizzard started pruning abilities, I think a lot of us thought all specs were going to get the arcane mage treatment. Arcane mages only had a 3-4 button rotation for a long time. However, because of the interaction of the abilities, it was still an interesting spec. You had to think about when to burn mana and when to conserve it. If you needed to move the rotation changed, etc.

The problem I'm having with assassination's rotation in Legion is that it's just an attack pattern. If not for Seal Fate (crits can proc an extra combo point), you could just make a castsequence macro that plays the single-target rotation optimally. That's not very interesting to me.

The question I have been asking is what happened to, "Easy to learn, hard to master?"

[Mafic]

Assassination in Legion has lost Dispatch...so it is a more boring version than live. Sub is hard to say but it could go either way.

Outlaw according to alpha testers is boring even though it has gained a proc like Pistol Shot.

Blizz misses the big picture in that easier rotations and harder game play isn't what everyone wants. Maybe that is what the MOBA players want but I strongly feel it has no place in a MMORPG like WoW.

[slime]

Im pretty disappointed as a rogue. I really wanted the change hunters got, making combat a truly ranged spec, that would've been cool. I don't think hunters even want a melee spec.

[Uselessrouge]

nope if you ask me the rogue changes are a joke...


you could have given us a good melee spec.. oh nevermind the monk got one that is better then the rogues one

you could have given us a tank spec to make BIG changes and show us love nope monk and demon hunter got it ....

i gave up hope for real rogue changes a long time ago


and i am not even talking about the rogue rotation that got so boring..

i loved sub durring ICC times where you had to stack your dmg buff 3 times , but it ws to hard so they nerfed it so evry retard could play it

then after that they kept nerfing all rotations more and more.. now a days we are left with boring rotations and nothing that makes rogue different

[Kourvith]

Blizz misses the big picture in that easier rotations and harder game play isn't what everyone wants.

The common counter argument to this is : « I prefer a simpler rotation to allow deeper encounters. »

To which I tend to respond :
Deeper rotations won't allow deeper boss mechanics only if said rotations are not intuitive. A professional game designer (which we are not), could perfectly create a deep, varying rotation that would fit to deep boss mechanics, simply if core rotation (outside of a few additional layers) would be intuitive. Therefore doesn't tax that much brain time. I don't think such a sweet spot would be hard to reach, considering how average WoW gamers have been familiar with core mechanics for 5 to 10 years.

[Osmeric]

The common counter argument to this is : « I prefer a simpler rotation to allow deeper encounters. »

To which I tend to respond :
Deeper rotations won't allow deeper boss mechanics only if said rotations are not intuitive. A professional game designer (which we are not), could perfectly create a deep, varying rotation that would fit to deep boss mechanics, simply if core rotation (outside of a few additional layers) would be intuitive. Therefore doesn't tax that much brain time. I don't think such a sweet spot would be hard to reach, considering the average WoW gamer experience is 5 to 10 years old.

The other agument is the simpler rotation allows adding increasing numbers of optional abilities, and allows these optional abilities to differentiate between PvE and PvP.

[Kourvith]

The other agument is the simpler rotation allows adding increasing numbers of optional abilities, and allows these optional abilities to differentiate between PvE and PvP.

Which I like aswell, and in the end is in accordance with what I suggest in my post above
Addendum : Enh shaman seems to have received that very treatment, even for PvE (lots of additional spells from talents). Which rogues are lacking in the current Legion form. Imo, that's how they should shift complexity for every spec in the game, instead of shifting it by class.

[Redecle]

I actually like that they simplyfied outlaw even more, in my own ideal world combat would only have SS to build and Evi/RT to spend and have AR as passive energy regen rate with 100% uptime. That's what i enjoy playing combat about the most, the simplicity and the button smash.

The theme so far is only names, mostly.. It's mostly the artifact that's almost entirely pirate themed cutlasses that's a major disappointment. There is however couple of new arti skins been around this week, which of one has been "Thunderfury". There's no confirmation that it even is outlaw skin, but rumors.. I don't know if even that would be enough to save the outlaw artifact. Roll the Bones is thank god a talent, the animation is something that already irritates the heck out of me to watch and i haven't even played outlaw once. If i'd have to observe that as often as refreshing SnD now i'd just jump through the closest window and run.

The simplicity is not everything, it's awesome as combat/outlaw, but that's why i'm playing enhancement a lot too, as a counter to the simple combat it provides some complexity, it provided more in that past which i enjoyed about enha. Legion, it's hard to tell yet, the new builder/spender spec doesn't really offer the same priority list based complexity, but for the looks of it enha seems to still be one of the few specs that has above average number of skills to press on constant base to mix things up.

It's a nice contrast to go actually play with something simple like combat you really don't have to think at all and focus on the game and then go play enha and forget the game and so to speak "stand in every fire possible" and focus on thinking what do i press next. Simply cause there are days i just want to jam my finger to the keyboard until the keyboard is no more and then there are days i actually want to activate my brains when i play.

[Mafic]

The common counter argument to this is : « I prefer a simpler rotation to allow deeper encounters. »

To which I tend to respond :
Deeper rotations won't allow deeper boss mechanics only if said rotations are not intuitive. A professional game designer (which we are not), could perfectly create a deep, varying rotation that would fit to deep boss mechanics, simply if core rotation (outside of a few additional layers) would be intuitive. Therefore doesn't tax that much brain time. I don't think such a sweet spot would be hard to reach, considering how average WoW gamers have been familiar with core mechanics for 5 to 10 years.

I don't trust the WoW devs to do this. See WoD.

- - - Updated - - -

I actually like that they simplyfied outlaw even more, in my own ideal world combat would only have SS to build and Evi/RT to spend and have AR as passive energy regen rate with 100% uptime. That's what i enjoy playing combat about the most, the simplicity and the button smash.

The theme so far is only names, mostly.. It's mostly the artifact that's almost entirely pirate themed cutlasses that's a major disappointment. There is however couple of new arti skins been around this week, which of one has been "Thunderfury". There's no confirmation that it even is outlaw skin, but rumors.. I don't know if even that would be enough to save the outlaw artifact. Roll the Bones is thank god a talent, the animation is something that already irritates the heck out of me to watch and i haven't even played outlaw once. If i'd have to observe that as often as refreshing SnD now i'd just jump through the closest window and run.

The simplicity is not everything, it's awesome as combat/outlaw, but that's why i'm playing enhancement a lot too, as a counter to the simple combat it provides some complexity, it provided more in that past which i enjoyed about enha. Legion, it's hard to tell yet, the new builder/spender spec doesn't really offer the same priority list based complexity, but for the looks of it enha seems to still be one of the few specs that has above average number of skills to press on constant base to mix things up.

It's a nice contrast to go actually play with something simple like combat you really don't have to think at all and focus on the game and then go play enha and forget the game and so to speak "stand in every fire possible" and focus on thinking what do i press next. Simply cause there are days i just want to jam my finger to the keyboard until the keyboard is no more and then there are days i actually want to activate my brains when i play.

Combat has had the easiest rotation since BC. The rotation hasn't been simplified as arguably it has become more complicated if Roll the Bones is selected. What has been simplified is all the lost utility that Rogues are losing.

Simple rotation, little or no utility = boredom.

[Wries]

I'm not really that happy about them tampering with the combat spec, no. Last time they did that in such a way was cata, and it took them two expansions until it was no longer tedious. (Mainly in the regard that target switching was punishing and thus disencouraged.) I never agreed that rogues were in need for a fix so initially I'm pessimistic about the changes.