1. #1021
    Quote Originally Posted by Dagonfel View Post
    The problem is, it's already sitting at a 3% baseline so you can't go much lower without hurting people who don't have a lot of mastery. It procs off all main-hand attacks so I suppose you can look at that. I do not think any chance should be nerfed baseline, nor the coefficient in our mastery. It's low enough as is. Just remember that in raids you won't be able to stack 14,000 mastery.
    Yes you will.

    Every class can get 14-18k of a preferred stat in the normal mode raid gear. Especially crit, because for some reason literally everything has crit.

    Here is a quick build of normal mode gear.
    I dropped mastery to get haste as the secondary on some pieces, so you could definitely have higher mastery (3k+ more) if you skipped trying to get haste as well. They also destroyed nighthold trinket secondary stats (only one has mastery now, last build like 3 did), and nighthold gear is shit itemized compared to nightmare.

    http://legion.wowhead.com/compare?it...0.0.0.0.0.1807


    The Ursoc paw trinket is pretty baller, but it's listed as strength only (with no class equip requirements though). So if it's usable by enhance, then it's probably worth equipping.

  2. #1022
    Huh, I wasn't aware of the Ursoc's Paw, seems legit. We'd have to look into what legendaries we want equipped, especially with some being AoE focused and others single target to decide tier slots. The Crash Lightning chest seems real nice, which would mean dropping the tier chest as well. I'm anxious to see how they sim out after tuning. The easiest way to change our mastery if it is indeed a problem would be to change it from ALL main hand attacks, to a select few. Making Crash Lightning's hit not proc it would go a long way.

  3. #1023
    Quote Originally Posted by Dagonfel View Post
    Huh, I wasn't aware of the Ursoc's Paw, seems legit. We'd have to look into what legendaries we want equipped, especially with some being AoE focused and others single target to decide tier slots. The Crash Lightning chest seems real nice, which would mean dropping the tier chest as well. I'm anxious to see how they sim out after tuning. The easiest way to change our mastery if it is indeed a problem would be to change it from ALL main hand attacks, to a select few. Making Crash Lightning's hit not proc it would go a long way.
    There's no issue with tier slots given that there's now 6 pieces and you can only equip 2 legendaries at present.

    Pending whether or not Entwined Foci actually does what trinkets have in the past and scales with Mastery (2/3 of the time at least), we'll likely be locked in between Convergence of Fates and that.

  4. #1024
    Quote Originally Posted by Dagonfel View Post
    The problem is, it's already sitting at a 3% baseline so you can't go much lower without hurting people who don't have a lot of mastery. It procs off all main-hand attacks so I suppose you can look at that. I do not think any chance should be nerfed baseline, nor the coefficient in our mastery. It's low enough as is. Just remember that in raids you won't be able to stack 14,000 mastery.
    saw a warrior with 12k+ mastery in mythic testing on friday

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    just saw the above comments lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    There's no issue with tier slots given that there's now 6 pieces and you can only equip 2 legendaries at present.

    Pending whether or not Entwined Foci actually does what trinkets have in the past and scales with Mastery (2/3 of the time at least), we'll likely be locked in between Convergence of Fates and that.
    wait, 6 tier pieces now? how did i miss this? anywhere i can see this and whats the other slot?

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    just found it, the cloak is the 6th piece.. now that is different

  5. #1025
    Testing on PTR, Hot Hands is quite nice during AOE when all you want to do is hit SS and LL. Shame there is no graphical signal that its procced, just a button flash.

  6. #1026
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    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    There's no issue with tier slots given that there's now 6 pieces and you can only equip 2 legendaries at present.

    Pending whether or not Entwined Foci actually does what trinkets have in the past and scales with Mastery (2/3 of the time at least), we'll likely be locked in between Convergence of Fates and that.
    2? I thought they limited it to 1 or did that recently change?

  7. #1027
    I believe once you finish your class hall's quest campaign or whatever it unlocks the ability to equip a second legendary item.

  8. #1028
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hivey View Post
    I believe once you finish your class hall's quest campaign or whatever it unlocks the ability to equip a second legendary item.
    Ah, that will change things a bit.

  9. #1029
    Quote Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
    2? I thought they limited it to 1 or did that recently change?
    Its the last perk you get from the class order hall, after having done all the upgrades.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mhyroth View Post
    Thanks for the read-up.
    So you want to take Crashing Storm and use Crash Lightning in your ST rotation too (for now) due to how the Damage scaling works ?
    Everything makes sense and my gut-feeling was right most of the time ^^.
    It's basically too high in scaling. Expect some nerfs
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  10. #1030
    Quote Originally Posted by Dagonfel View Post
    The problem is, it's already sitting at a 3% baseline so you can't go much lower without hurting people who don't have a lot of mastery. It procs off all main-hand attacks so I suppose you can look at that. I do not think any chance should be nerfed baseline, nor the coefficient in our mastery. It's low enough as is. Just remember that in raids you won't be able to stack 14,000 mastery.
    Im no where near that much mastery, I've got around half of that. I wasnt suggesting they cut the base rate in either case. I haven't really sat down to suss out the cause, though its not something thats really stood out until hitting max level. My initial thought is thats its a combination of mastery, stormflurry, and tempest having really strong synergy.

  11. #1031
    Quote Originally Posted by Darleth View Post
    It's basically too high in scaling. Expect some nerfs
    In my opinion once you get enough mastery Fury of Air feels a lot better than crashing storm does. At 55%~ I barely have the gcds to hit it, and fury of air can easily be kept up without ever running out of maelstrom. FoA does more damage too, at least in the gear I'm in.

  12. #1032
    Quote Originally Posted by Keltas View Post
    In my opinion once you get enough mastery Fury of Air feels a lot better than crashing storm does. At 55%~ I barely have the gcds to hit it, and fury of air can easily be kept up without ever running out of maelstrom. FoA does more damage too, at least in the gear I'm in.
    I was explicity talking about 110. Fury of Air isnt bad, i'm not saying that. The other thing that makes Crash lightning more attractive is the doomhammer trait for it.
    Of course until you actually gain access to the Doomhammer (Legion release) Fury of Air could be better. I haven't tested it on the PTR.
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  13. #1033
    Quote Originally Posted by Darleth View Post
    I was explicity talking about 110. Fury of Air isnt bad, i'm not saying that. The other thing that makes Crash lightning more attractive is the doomhammer trait for it.
    Of course until you actually gain access to the Doomhammer (Legion release) Fury of Air could be better. I haven't tested it on the PTR.
    I meant 110 too, with full artifact.
    Crashing Storms is the only artifact trait for it, which is definitely amazing for AoE and will push it past FoA, but single target I can't see it winning out.
    You have to use a GCD on a lower damage spell, the traits adds a little, but not enough to make it a LL in damage. (you then lose out on LL traits, which are more powerful), and then get 6 ticks over 6 seconds. FoA is just always on at high mastery, and ticks higher than CL does, without using that global to do so.

    At 60-80% mastery (easy in raid gear) and Tempest, you'll be spamming SS so much that you barely have time to hit CL on cooldown. Then the gold trait for LL is 5 RPPM, which means those few GCDS you have open would definitely be well spent on a LL.

    Obviously the math could and may very well prove me wrong, I'm just saying it "feels" a lot better not having to try to keep CL on cooldown at high mastery. If you like juggling a lot of cooldowns, then you may like the CL talent more. That's the beauty of the new talent system, we both can play the way we enjoy more, and they are pretty close to each other in usefulness, so either one works.

  14. #1034
    In regards to the Artifact, I know you want to go for Doom Wolves first. After that would it be better to head for another golden dragon (if so which one) or fill out the good normal traits like Wind strikes, Gathering Storms, Wind Surge etc that are not on the path that you take for Doom wolves. Just unsure which is best to get the better normal traits or more golden dragons.

  15. #1035
    Elite area in Tanan Jungle:

    On Live: I can take on a few at a time with ease thanks to self-healing from myself and/or wolves.
    On PTR: I am really struggling to beat 2 at a time. 3 feels impossible.

    I have no addons, so no clue whether this is down to my DPS, or my inability to play the new spec, or we are just more vulnerable now, or whether the elites have been toughened up. But it is a very noticeable difference in difficulty.

  16. #1036
    Quote Originally Posted by Keltas View Post
    I meant 110 too, with full artifact.
    Crashing Storms is the only artifact trait for it, which is definitely amazing for AoE and will push it past FoA, but single target I can't see it winning out.
    You have to use a GCD on a lower damage spell, the traits adds a little, but not enough to make it a LL in damage. (you then lose out on LL traits, which are more powerful), and then get 6 ticks over 6 seconds. FoA is just always on at high mastery, and ticks higher than CL does, without using that global to do so.

    At 60-80% mastery (easy in raid gear) and Tempest, you'll be spamming SS so much that you barely have time to hit CL on cooldown. Then the gold trait for LL is 5 RPPM, which means those few GCDS you have open would definitely be well spent on a LL.

    Obviously the math could and may very well prove me wrong, I'm just saying it "feels" a lot better not having to try to keep CL on cooldown at high mastery. If you like juggling a lot of cooldowns, then you may like the CL talent more. That's the beauty of the new talent system, we both can play the way we enjoy more, and they are pretty close to each other in usefulness, so either one works.
    I wasnt really considering that much mastery into my own testing. Makes sense though the way you describe it. I'm not a real theorycrafter though and i'm overall waiting for Wordup on numbers etc. I'm just testing the stuff I can test myself without making myself look like an idiot :P
    But you are right. If we end up with that much Mastery, FoA can be stronger and easier to handle actually.

    Otherwise, I agree with you. Its something a lot of people seem to forget, that there are now different playstyles possible in via talents. At least in our case that is the same feeling I have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hivey View Post
    Elite area in Tanan Jungle:

    On Live: I can take on a few at a time with ease thanks to self-healing from myself and/or wolves.
    On PTR: I am really struggling to beat 2 at a time. 3 feels impossible.

    I have no addons, so no clue whether this is down to my DPS, or my inability to play the new spec, or we are just more vulnerable now, or whether the elites have been toughened up. But it is a very noticeable difference in difficulty.
    Most classes got a bit squishier. Enhancement Shamans are no exception there. Our survivability now relies a bit more on healing surges. As i've not tested it: for how much does it actually heal on the ptr? I know how good it can be in beta, but I dont know how good it is on the PTR. Nothing is really final anyways, so there is still always some easy fixes possible.
    Last edited by Darleth; 2016-06-20 at 12:21 PM.
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  17. #1037
    Quote Originally Posted by Darleth View Post
    I wasnt really considering that much mastery into my own testing. Makes sense though the way you describe it. I'm not a real theorycrafter though and i'm overall waiting for Wordup on numbers etc. I'm just testing the stuff I can test myself without making myself look like an idiot :P
    But you are right. If we end up with that much Mastery, FoA can be stronger and easier to handle actually.

    Otherwise, I agree with you. Its something a lot of people seem to forget, that there are now different playstyles possible in via talents. At least in our case that is the same feeling I have.



    Most classes got a bit squishier. Enhancement Shamans are no exception there. Our survivability now relies a bit more on healing surges. As i've not tested it: for how much does it actually heal on the ptr? I know how good it can be in beta, but I dont know how good it is on the PTR. Nothing is really final anyways, so there is still always some easy fixes possible.

    So on Live, I rely mostly on Flame Shock and Fire Nova, picking up a load of elites and focusing Maelstrom on healing myself more than Chain Lightning. This way, I never spend mana. Plus, if I have pulled many and failed to interrupt their self buff, I will use the wolves that heal a lot.

    On PTR, even if I use Maelstrom to heal myself, sure its instant still but I am using mana and am not able to do this more than 5 or 6 times. On top of that, our wolves don't provide any healing either. Also, on Live, using Maelstrom to heal instead of Chain Lightning is not that bad of a DPS loss, it doesn't effect Fire Nova spam at all. On PTR, that heal will cost me either a SS or LL. That's a big cleave to lose out on, meaning those elites aren't dying and will continue to pound on me.

    The heals themselves I think were healing for similar amount.

  18. #1038
    Quote Originally Posted by Leesing View Post
    In regards to the Artifact, I know you want to go for Doom Wolves first. After that would it be better to head for another golden dragon (if so which one) or fill out the good normal traits like Wind strikes, Gathering Storms, Wind Surge etc that are not on the path that you take for Doom wolves. Just unsure which is best to get the better normal traits or more golden dragons.
    Aside from Alpha Wolf, the golden dragons are a larger percentage of our overall DPS than just about anything else, as far as I know. Besides, you'll get the best non-golden traits just by going after the dragons, so you might as well. Most likely, you want to go after Unleash Doom after Doom Wolves, then Doom Vortex.

  19. #1039
    Deleted
    On live, I can pull up to ~6-7 Blackfangs with 710 pvp gear no problem;
    -Aoe stun
    -Stonebulwark Totem
    -Earth Elememental
    -Healingstream Totem
    -Feral Spirit/Ancestral Guidance macro for massive healing
    -LS glyph for -10% dmg
    -FS glyph for heal on dot ticks times mob count
    -Shamanistic Rage
    -Aoe root if things get close to get range and heal up
    -MSW heals obviously

    And obviously tons of dps cooldowns that give us healing with AG, and tons of aoe damage.
    Pretty much all of it is going away. If you haven't completed all of your aoe-elite-mob-grinds yet, I guess nows the time to do it before legion hits.

  20. #1040
    Quote Originally Posted by Hivey View Post
    Elite area in Tanan Jungle:

    On Live: I can take on a few at a time with ease thanks to self-healing from myself and/or wolves.
    On PTR: I am really struggling to beat 2 at a time. 3 feels impossible.

    I have no addons, so no clue whether this is down to my DPS, or my inability to play the new spec, or we are just more vulnerable now, or whether the elites have been toughened up. But it is a very noticeable difference in difficulty.
    I think this intended. There was a time when only a few classes could handle elites solo and usually only 1 at a time.
    I think they are trying to bring some of that "dangerous world" back.
    Obviously it sucks when you are used to being a demigod but maybe you can ask for help(which I believe is what they are aiming for).

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