pvp gear in legion

[Deleted]

The said specifically that your ilvl determines your PvP template. Please go read the original statements they made regarding Legions PvP.

When you enter a battleground or arena, the game will set your stats from your spec, not your gear. This means all of your stats will come from a template specific to your spec. If one spec isn't doing well in PvP, their spec's template can be tuned individually.

As you get better gear, your stats are increased a smaller amount. For example, every 5 item levels may give you a 1% stat increase. This way gear still will increase your power, but it won't give you a huge advantage.

The second part is the key.

Pre fixed stats. Blizzard might change "something" as they gets feedback in the beta. I really dislike that I can't decide how much mastery I want on my gear contra crit rating (as a arms warrior). I fear the the feeling of improvement over a season won't be there as my hits ain't getting bigger

[Deleted]

Essentially what this system means is that we're going back to "go do raiding if you want to pvp" game model again.

[Lordk0z]

To be completely honest, who actually IS happy with this? WHAT possible group are they pandering to? Raiders? I doubt most of them even know how to pvp

[Puxycat]

To be completely honest, who actually IS happy with this? WHAT possible group are they pandering to? Raiders? I doubt most of them even know how to pvp

i hope they dont ruin pvp..

[ComputerNerd]

So, according to that, a fresh ("greenies") player might have 7% less stats than a fully mythic geared player. Or maybe, a fully PVP geared player might have 1-2% less stats than a fully mythic geared player. That does indeed suggest that there is such a thing as "BiS"; but it does seem to contradict the earlier statement that all stats were based on spec instead of gear. At any rate, the difference - if there is one - should be very minor.

The stats templates aren't based on gear (or gear item level), they're based on spec. The gear is said to have some influence on the stats as well, though, but with severe diminishing returns at higher item levels.

What it means is that there is a fixed stat template, which increased item level will have some much smaller impact on.
Think of every spec having its stats determined purely by item level.
You won't have a haste build, or a crit build for a given spec.
There will just be the destruction build, and the affliction build with likely a specific relevant stat favored for it with crit for destro and haste for affliction for example.

Certainly some benefit to the highest PvE gear, but a much smaller one and actually reasonable or trivial to overcome through just better play.
Unlike before.

To be completely honest, who actually IS happy with this? WHAT possible group are they pandering to? Raiders? I doubt most of them even know how to pvp

I am happy with most of it.
Little disappointed with the lack of stat options in terms of what to favour, but I see why it is going that way.
Stops people stomping primarily due to better gear alone.
PvE has the option of appropriate opponents for your gear/skill.
PvP does not, so the gear shouldn't be this big influence in it as that only adds in an unfair extra effort for those not in right at the start.

[Tech Priest Bojangles]

Ideally, in this raider vs. pvper scenario, the pvper will have significantly more progress in the pvp talents shit than the raider, thus having waaay more utility and pvp-centric perks to dominate his opponent. Unless the raider is a no-lifer that excels in both areas.

[Kagthul]

Ideally, in this raider vs. pvper scenario, the pvper will have significantly more progress in the pvp talents shit than the raider, thus having waaay more utility and pvp-centric perks to dominate his opponent. Unless the raider is a no-lifer that excels in both areas.

if you dont prestige, the PvP talents will be something you can max out in a few weeks of casual play at most. This will never be an advantage to the PvPer.

[Osmeric]

To be completely honest, who actually IS happy with this? WHAT possible group are they pandering to? Raiders? I doubt most of them even know how to pvp

I think they got sick of people using easy-to-get PvP gear to skip PvE content. Honor gear, in particular, obsoletes large amounts of PvE pre-raid content, and conquest gear is better than normal mode raid gear in many cases.

[Zolaris192]

Standard PvP gear will be as good as normal raiding gear (in PVP) and Conquest gear will be as good as Mythic gear (in PVP) but there'll only be like a 3% difference in health and damage between Honor gear and Conquest gear.

conquest is removed, gear is normalized, each class has a stat template that is activated when entering pvp combat

[Deleted]

if you dont prestige, the PvP talents will be something you can max out in a few weeks of casual play at most. This will never be an advantage to the PvPer.

That's the problem. I think most raiders also do pvp, they aren't that exclusive. Now the guy who raids has the advantage. Even if some guy only raids and then jumps into pvp, after seeing those pvp talents that you get - they won't help you much when some pve mega geared rogue stunlocks you do to death before you can use any of them-

[negawonka]

To be completely honest, who actually IS happy with this? WHAT possible group are they pandering to? Raiders? I doubt most of them even know how to pvp

One of the reasons I came back for WoD after being away from the game for a few years is that I had read rumors that they were going to be making it so pvp gear wasn't automatically better in pvp than pvp gear. There are quite a few people who have fond memories of raiding BWL and then doing AB, WSG, and AV with that gear. I never liked how they pretty much split the game into pvp and pve, I liked it better when the two were part of the same game.

I hope they do like they have indicated they were going to do. I would love to do challenge mode dungeons in Legion for my gear and then use that same gear in battlegrounds, arena, and whatever they have that replaces ashran.

[ellieg]

One of the reasons I came back for WoD after being away from the game for a few years is that I had read rumors that they were going to be making it so pvp gear wasn't automatically better in pvp than pvp gear. There are quite a few people who have fond memories of raiding BWL and then doing AB, WSG, and AV with that gear. I never liked how they pretty much split the game into pvp and pve, I liked it better when the two were part of the same game.

I hope they do like they have indicated they were going to do. I would love to do challenge mode dungeons in Legion for my gear and then use that same gear in battlegrounds, arena, and whatever they have that replaces ashran.

Would u be upset if it was the opposite way tho? What if I said " It would be cool if they made it so that pve gear wasn't automatically better in pve than pvp gear. I would love to do battlegrounds and arenas for my gear and then use that gear in mythic"

It just doesn't make sense that the gear u get from doing activity x, isn't bis for activity x, but instead gear u get from doing activity y is bis for activity x and y.
Like what if pet battles gave u gear and that was BiS for mythic? That's how insane it sounds to pvpers. gear u get from activity x should be decent for activity y and vice versa but gear u get from activity x should be bis for activity x.

[negawonka]

Would u be upset if it was the opposite way tho? What if I said " It would be cool if they made it so that pve gear wasn't automatically better in pve than pvp gear. I would love to do battlegrounds and arenas for my gear and then use that gear in mythic"

It just doesn't make sense that the gear u get from doing activity x, isn't bis for activity x, but instead gear u get from doing activity y is bis for activity x and y.
Like what if pet battles gave u gear and that was BiS for mythic? That's how insane it sounds to pvpers. gear u get from activity x should be decent for activity y and vice versa but gear u get from activity x should be bis for activity x.

Yes I actually would like that. I remember in vanilla a lot of the High Warlord gear was really good. I think gear should be gear and while some might be better than others, you should be able to just have one set of gear for each spec.

In an ideal world, some of the BiS would come from PVE and some would come from PVP. I would like a system where tier gear was amazing in pvp but the pvp weapons were amazing in pve.

[ellieg]

Yes I actually would like that. I remember in vanilla a lot of the High Warlord gear was really good. I think gear should be gear and while some might be better than others, you should be able to just have one set of gear for each spec.

In an ideal world, some of the BiS would come from PVE and some would come from PVP. I would like a system where tier gear was amazing in pvp but the pvp weapons were amazing in pve.

I guess we differ a lot in our opinions then. Theres a good amount of people who only pvp or only pve. It just seems counterintuitive to me to force them to play an area of the game that they don't like just so they can be better at the stuff they do like.

I don't have a problem with there being no gear in pvp, or pvp and pve gear being 100% equal in pvp.

[Deleted]

Would u be upset if it was the opposite way tho? What if I said " It would be cool if they made it so that pve gear wasn't automatically better in pve than pvp gear. I would love to do battlegrounds and arenas for my gear and then use that gear in mythic"

It just doesn't make sense that the gear u get from doing activity x, isn't bis for activity x, but instead gear u get from doing activity y is bis for activity x and y.
Like what if pet battles gave u gear and that was BiS for mythic? That's how insane it sounds to pvpers. gear u get from activity x should be decent for activity y and vice versa but gear u get from activity x should be bis for activity x.

The hypocrisy is most apparent when pve people had to do 2 bgs for their legendary quest. The ammount of tears was insane and then they get condescending on pvp gear not being bis in pvp...

[ellieg]

The hypocrisy is most apparent when pve people had to do 2 bgs for their legendary quest. The ammount of tears was insane and then they get condescending on pvp gear not being bis in pvp...

Ya that's all im ever reminded of recently when people discuss this. The best were comments like "ya well my faction has a terrible win rate so I had to play like 10 games!" That's like 4 hours worth of work for a legendary. All you had to do was hit a Q, wait a few mins, and try to win. If you really wanted to you could form a premade and get it much faster. For pvpers to get pve gear though its much much longer. You have to find a mythic guild, you have to raid until the piece u want drops, you gotta hope that you are next in line for that piece of gear. That's weeks.

[negawonka]

The hypocrisy is most apparent when pve people had to do 2 bgs for their legendary quest. The ammount of tears was insane and then they get condescending on pvp gear not being bis in pvp...

Not all pve people hate doing bgs, a lot of us like doing both. It should be entirely possible for me to be competitive in my normal pve gear, I shouldn't need to carry around an additional set of gear just to enjoy as large an aspect of the game as pvp.

I am ok with all gear being scaled to a set level though - that is a better compromise than having to carry an extra set of gear for each spec I wanted to play.

[Deleted]

Not all pve people hate doing bgs, a lot of us like doing both. It should be entirely possible for me to be competitive in my normal pve gear, I shouldn't need to carry around an additional set of gear just to enjoy as large an aspect of the game as pvp.

I am ok with all gear being scaled to a set level though - that is a better compromise than having to carry an extra set of gear for each spec I wanted to play.

The issue pvp players had was never about giving pve players equal chance, it was about pve gear being significantly superior in pvp wich always meant investing significant time into pve or get outgeared. That you need pvp gear for pvp in the first place was not a player decision. It's blizzards choice to give some progression to the people who only play for that instead of pvp in itself. A good number of pvp players hates the gear grind for pvp themself. Static stats would've made those very happy as well as removed them from botting bgs for said gear. Gear could've been sold as cosmetic / weaker stats only working outside pvp but instead we have this mix of gear progression dominating skill til everyone is fully equipped and it's back to essentially static stats for months til next season again.

[ellieg]

Not all pve people hate doing bgs, a lot of us like doing both. It should be entirely possible for me to be competitive in my normal pve gear, I shouldn't need to carry around an additional set of gear just to enjoy as large an aspect of the game as pvp.

I am ok with all gear being scaled to a set level though - that is a better compromise than having to carry an extra set of gear for each spec I wanted to play.

Well you really will do alright in pvp with normal pve gear. its week 2 of season 3 today. So max ilvl is about 731 in pvp. When everyone is fully conq geared it will be 740. Heroic pve gear is 710, with 10 ilvl upgrades from valor you will be at 720. So if you have decent gear you will be ready to compete against the 731 ilvl guys. They will obviously have an advantage but not a huge one. season 2 gear is 730 in pvp. So if you spend almost a day /played you can be in 730 really quickly. Its not that big of a barrier. If you just ding 100, and u queue for bgs, you will automatically be upgraded to 700 ilvl.

Worst case scenario, at the end of the season, a newly dinged 100 will be 40 ilvls below a fully geared conq pvp player. In 1 day /played at 100, you will be at 730 ilvl. From there, with the catch up cap to conquest, you will be able to get a ton of conq gear. They have done everything they can to make pvp more friendly to new players.

Having to carry a different set sucks but its just like switching from ret to holy, or from a haste set to a crit set in pve.