[Balance] Legion Discussion

[dark666105]

Figured we could use a thread for Balance Legion discussion given that a lot more info is coming to light.

Datamined class changes on wowhead.
http://www.wowhead.com/news=250045/l...-changes#druid

Not sure what to think of all the changes. Will need to get in game and try them out to form a more solid opinion.

[Deleted]

There are a boatload of changes listed. I think a lot of what's listed could be differing talent choices but in some cases it looks like some talents have been made baseline. Exciting stuff either way.

[Deleted]

Talents look interesting, but I'm pretty disappointed Innervate is just 20% mana to 1 healer every 3 min. (just like it used to be), sounds like the worst raid utility in the game.

[dark666105]

Would definitly rather have stampeding roar. Why have a utility that isn't useful to ourselves at all really?

[Madus]

Found this 100lvl talent as most interesting:

Collapsing Stars: Burns the target for (1000% of Spell power) Spellstorm damage, and then an additional (400% of Spell power) damage per second until your Astral Power is exhausted.
Replaces Celestial Alignment.

But not sure if its worth to replace Celestial Alignment with another spender.
First i though about enlarging that "steroid Moonfire" dot with:

Astral Communion: Generate 75 Astral Power
Blessing of the Ancients: Gain a Blessing of the Ancients, activating or swapping between one of the two following beneficial effects:

• Blessing of Elune
  [-]Increases Astral Power generated by Solar Wrath and Lunar Strike by 50%.
• Blessing of An'she
  [-]Grants 3 Astral Power every 2 sec.

Warrior of Elune: Your next 2 Lunar Strikes have no cast time.

but AC and Bota are both 100lvl talents

Anyway CS with Starlight(mastery) affected

Stellar Flare: Burns the target for (39% of Spell power) Spellstorm damage, and then an additional (156% of Spell power) damage over 24 sec.
Stellar Flare benefits from both Lunar and Solar Empowerments, consuming 1 of each.

and old DOTs could make some nice DOT playstyle

-----------------------------------------------------------
That Innervate will not be so useless with instant and 10% mana cost

Healing Touch: Heals a friendly target for (360% of Spell power).

[huth]

1000%... yeowch. Might be good for those single target burn fights. CA obviously beats it on AoE, but it's also a longer CD.

Also, Lunar Strike does 20% AoE damage in 5 yards.

Talents...
Tier 15

• Shooting Stars: Moonfire and Sunfire ticks have a chance to call down a falling star, dealing (21% SP) Arcane damage and generating 5 Astral Power.
• Starlord: When your Solar and Lunar spells are empowered, their cast time is reduced by 50%.
• Warrior of Elune: Your next 2 Lunar Strikes have no cast time. 45s CD

Tier 30

• Displacer Beast: Teleports the Druid up to 20 yards forward, activates Cat Form, and increases movement speed by 50% for 4 sec.
• Wild Charge: Fly to a nearby ally's position.(Base Form tooltip, you know the deal)
• Renewal: Instantly heals the Druid for 30% of maximum health. Usable in all shapeshift forms. 2 Min CD

Tier 45 - Affinity Tier. Not listing abilities, to long

• Restoration Affinity: You gain: Ysera's Gift Heals you for 4% of your maximum health every 5 sec. If you are at full health, a random nearby injured ally will be healed instead.
• Feral Affinity: You gain: Feline Swiftness Increases your movement speed by 15%.
• Guardian Affinity: You gain: Thick Hide Reduces all damage taken by 10%.

Tier 60

• Typhoon: Summons a violent Typhoon that strikes targets in front of the caster within 15 yards, knocking them back and dazing them for 6 sec. Usable in all shapeshift forms.
• Mighty Bash: Invokes the spirit of Ursoc to stun the target for 5 sec. Usable in all shapeshift forms.
• Mass Entanglement: Roots your target in place for 20 sec and spreads to additional nearby enemies. Damage caused may interrupt the effect. Usable in all shapeshift forms.

Tier 75

• Stellar Flare: Burns the target for (39% of Spell power) Spellstorm damage, and then an additional (156% of Spell power) damage over 24 sec.
  Stellar Flare benefits from both Lunar and Solar Empowerments, consuming 1 of each.
• Incarnation: Chosen of Elune: An improved Moonkin Form that increases all your spell damage by an additional 15%. Lasts 30 sec. You may shapeshift in and out of this improved Moonkin Form for its duration.
• Soul of the Forest: Increases the damage bonus from Lunar and Solar Empowerment by an additional 15%.

Tier 90

• Stellar Drift: Increases the radius of Starfall by 30%, and the damage dealt by 20%. Additionally, while you are inside the Starfall you can cast while moving.
• Full Moon: The damage dealt to the primary target of Lunar Strike is increased by 25%.
• Nature's Balance: You align to the power of the Moon and Stars so your direct damage spells reenergize your damage over time effects. Your Lunar Strike extend the duration of Moonfire by 6 sec. Your Solar Wraths extend the duration of Sunfire by 4 sec.

Tier 100

• Collapsing Stars: Burns the target for (1000% of Spell power) Spellstorm damage, and then an additional (400% of Spell power) damage per second until your Astral Power is exhausted. Replaces Celestial Alignment. 2 Min CD
• Blessing of the Ancients: Gain a Blessing of the Ancients, activating or swapping between one of the two following beneficial effects: Blessing of Elune Increases Astral Power generated by Solar Wrath and Lunar Strike by 50%. Blessing of An'she Grants 3 Astral Power every 2 sec.
• Astral Communion: Generate 75 Astral Power. 1 Min CD

Innervate: Regenerate 2% of an ally's maximum mana every 1 sec for 10 sec. 3 Min CD

Also, all Draenor perks were rolled into baseline, and Druids now start out at level 1 as Feral instead of no form with Wrath(which is only gained by Resto and Balance at 10, and Druids who choose Balance Affinity)

[dark666105]

I am wondering if those are all talents or if some of those come with the specialization since the section was listed as talents and specialization.

[huth]

From what i can tell, all the talent level skills are talents. There's always three of them for each spec, or they're already talents right now.

After seeing the Owlcat, i think it would be funny if Ferals with Balance Affinity got that as their Moonkin model.

Also, just for reference, Balance Affinity gives access to all baseline single target skills from what i could see. Including Starsurge, so it probably gives an Astral Power bar as well.

[Deleted]

Do we have any idea on the cooldowns of some of the new talents like Astral communion, innervate, collapsing stars and warrior of elune? Also stellar flare seems really underwhelming since its difficult to multi dot with it reliably and you don't get empowered lunar strike or solar wraths as often.

Edit: Why did they make revive and mark of the wild to resto only?

[huth]

Do we have any idea on the cooldowns of some of the new talents like Astral communion, innervate, collapsing stars and warrior of elune? Also stellar flare seems really underwhelming since its difficult to multi dot with it reliably and you don't get empowered lunar strike or solar wraths as often.

Yes, all of them. Keep in mind that all numbers are just random ballpark stuff, tuning and balancing won't happen till about a month before release.

Edith sayz: Added the CDs for new/reintroduced skills to the list.

[Madus]

Do we have any idea on the cooldowns of some of the new talents like Astral communion, innervate, collapsing stars and warrior of elune? Also stellar flare seems really underwhelming since its difficult to multi dot with it reliably and you don't get empowered lunar strike or solar wraths as often.

Edit: Why did they make revive and mark of the wild to resto only?

Well, maybe they want it more like single target dot.
Amount of removed abilities is hilarious, it looks like they wanna have 12 abilites only xD aka 1 action bar.

[Tokas]

Removed
Soothe: Soothes the target, dispelling all enrage effects.

Madus, whaaat?

[huth]

Removed
Soothe: Soothes the target, dispelling all enrage effects.

Madus, whaaat?

Eh, i could probably count the times it really made sense to use that in WoD on one hand and still hold my tea with it.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, maybe they want it more like single target dot.
Amount of removed abilities is hilarious, it looks like they wanna have 12 abilites only xD aka 1 action bar.

If it still scales multiplicatively, it's going to do a fair bit of damage to that one target, though.

Collapsing Stars is also an obvious single target candidate... kind wonder what it costs. WoWhead doesn't seem to be set up to deal with Astral power costs yet, so they just pop up as empty lines.

[Madus]

Removed
Soothe: Soothes the target, dispelling all enrage effects.

Madus, whaaat?

As a moonkin add remove curse(probably mages losing it, nonholy palas losing cleanse and so.., nonmist monk lose detox), revive, hurricane, cenarion ward, ursol vortex, stampeding roar, dash, mark of wild, faerie swarm

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Eh, i could probably count the times it really made sense to use that in WoD on one hand and still hold my tea with it.

If it still scales multiplicatively, it's going to do a fair bit of damage to that one target, though.

Collapsing Stars is also an obvious single target candidate... kind wonder what it costs. WoWhead doesn't seem to be set up to deal with Astral power costs yet, so they just pop up as empty lines.

It was nice antireflect tool in pvp, but i dont care if we losing it
I hope that stellar will work, second iteration of that spell as crap would be very lame.
Collapsing stars could have even zero cost like other talents, so you would want to cast it on max Astral and burn over your bar.

[ravenmoon]

I wish we had

• Hurricane &
• Wild Mushroom Detonate also
• Insect Swarm

I sort of view Sunfire and Lunar Strike the main AoE damage source for 2-4 attackers, but 5+ hurricane and wild mushroom detonate. Would be ideal, and i liked those spells anyway.. Hurricane could easily have had a mechanic where it waters the 1 mushroom and makes it 3 throughout the duration allowing you to detonate after a cast and replant and hurricane again.. again on 5+ targets, this is nice

Starfall remains useful on single or multiple targets and is in itself quite unique
Hurricane is so druid classic and symbolic, very much themed for the class and spec
Wild Mushroom is a lovely grow but for destruction with a unique mechanic itself and can tie in nicely with hurricane with specific uses with 5+ mobs

Finally Insect Swarm could be an alternative to Stella Flare swapping spell storm astral damage for equivalent physical damage and a different grpahic.

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1000%... yeowch. Might be good for those single target burn fights. CA obviously beats it on AoE, but it's also a longer CD.

Also, Lunar Strike does 20% AoE damage in 5 yards.

Talents...
Tier 15

• Shooting Stars: Moonfire and Sunfire ticks have a chance to call down a falling star, dealing 1 Arcane damage and generating 5 Astral Power.
• Starlord: When your Solar and Lunar spells are empowered, their cast time is reduced by 50%.
• Warrior of Elune: Your next 2 Lunar Strikes have no cast time. 45s CD

Tier 30

• Displacer Beast: Teleports the Druid up to 20 yards forward, activates Cat Form, and increases movement speed by 50% for 4 sec.
• Wild Charge: Fly to a nearby ally's position.(Base Form tooltip, you know the deal)
• Unknown

Tier 45 - Affinity Tier. Not listing abilities, to long

• Restoration Affinity: You gain: Ysera's Gift Heals you for 4% of your maximum health every 5 sec. If you are at full health, a random nearby injured ally will be healed instead.
• Feral Affinity: You gain: Feline Swiftness Increases your movement speed by 15%.
• Guardian Affinity: You gain: Thick Hide Reduces all damage taken by 10%.

Tier 60

• Typhoon: Summons a violent Typhoon that strikes targets in front of the caster within 15 yards, knocking them back and dazing them for 6 sec. Usable in all shapeshift forms.
• Mighty Bash: Invokes the spirit of Ursoc to stun the target for 5 sec. Usable in all shapeshift forms.
• Mass Entanglement: Roots your target in place for 20 sec and spreads to additional nearby enemies. Damage caused may interrupt the effect. Usable in all shapeshift forms.

Tier 75

• Stellar Flare: Burns the target for (39% of Spell power) Spellstorm damage, and then an additional (156% of Spell power) damage over 24 sec.
• Incarnation: Chosen of Elune: An improved Moonkin Form that increases all your spell damage by an additional 15%. Lasts 30 sec. You may shapeshift in and out of this improved Moonkin Form for its duration.
• Soul of the Forest: Increases the damage bonus from Lunar and Solar Empowerment by an additional 15%.

Tier 90

• Stellar Drift: Increases the radius of Starfall by 30%, and the damage dealt by 20%. Additionally, while you are inside the Starfall you can cast while moving.
• Full Moon: The damage dealt to the primary target of Lunar Strike is increased by 25%.
• Nature's Balance: You align to the power of the Moon and Stars so your direct damage spells reenergize your damage over time effects. Your Lunar Strike extend the duration of Moonfire by 6 sec. Your Solar Wraths extend the duration of Sunfire by 4 sec.

Tier 100

• Collapsing Stars: Burns the target for (1000% of Spell power) Spellstorm damage, and then an additional (400% of Spell power) damage per second until your Astral Power is exhausted. Replaces Celestial Alignment. 2 Min CD
• Blessing of the Ancients: Gain a Blessing of the Ancients, activating or swapping between one of the two following beneficial effects: Blessing of Elune Increases Astral Power generated by Solar Wrath and Lunar Strike by 50%. Blessing of An'she Grants 3 Astral Power every 2 sec.
• Astral Communion: Generate 75 Astral Power. 1 Min CD

Innervate: Regenerate 2% of an ally's maximum mana every 1 sec for 10 sec. 3 Min CD

Also, all Draenor perks were rolled into baseline, and Druids now start out at level 1 as Feral instead of no form with Wrath(which is only gained by Resto and Balance at 10, and Druids who choose Balance Affinity)

they've made mistake...Tier 75 has 2 actives, and tier 90 has all passives... I thought they were giving people the chance of having an active in each tier so they could determine the level of complexity they wanted.

in which case.. one of the Tier 75s needs to swap places with one of the TIer 90s

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Ok.. as it stands.. these are the adjustments I'd like to what they've released so far:

• Swap 1 active in Tier 75 with 1 passive in Tier 90 - giving at least a choice of all actives or all passives so the player determines the complexity
• Restore Hurricane to base - to be used for 5+ targets alongside
• Wild Mushroom detonate: also restored to base: - Sunfire and Lunar Strike remain ideal for 2-4 targets, but for larger packs the balance durid uses Hurricane & Detonate:
• Glyph of Insect Swarm - ideal to glyph Stella Flare for those who prefer a more nature representation whiles those who prefer a more celestial one can stick with flare.
• Glyph of Cenarion Form - ideal creature alternative to Moonkin form, giving two creature forms, and one humanoid form option in astral form.
• - tooltip replaces moonkin form throughout the spec with Cenarion or Astral if you have the glyph enabled, and change the shapeshift sound to be different both for Astral and Cenarion form.

[huth]

Could we please use this thread for discussions of what is, rather than what people want it to be?

[Madus]

I wish we had wall of text...

Can you please use other threads for your suggestions/ideas, there is plenty of them... This one is for discussing current existing beta spells and abilities.

[Deleted]

only 2 talents that directly affect AoE damage as far as i can see. So either it will be really strong right out of the gate (high multi dot damage or something) or we will be pretty much useless for AoE

In particular, no burst AoE, so for something like Mannoroth Imps, only starfall as direct damage to all of them.

[ravenmoon]

only 2 talents that directly affect AoE damage as far as i can see. So either it will be really strong right out of the gate (high multi dot damage or something) or we will be pretty much useless for AoE

In particular, no burst AoE, so for something like Mannoroth Imps, only starfall as direct damage to all of them.

I think they said they were toning down AoE -- yet again.. it seems something like that happening every expansion... but it may have been in particular to one class spec of the locks.. i only vaguely remember the conversation.

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1000%... yeowch. Might be good for those single target burn fights. CA obviously beats it on AoE, but it's also a longer CD.

Also, Lunar Strike does 20% AoE damage in 5 yards.

Innervate: Regenerate 2% of an ally's maximum mana every 1 sec for 10 sec. 3 Min CD

Also, all Draenor perks were rolled into baseline, and Druids now start out at level 1 as Feral instead of no form with Wrath(which is only gained by Resto and Balance at 10, and Druids who choose Balance Affinity)

Thanks for ordering them out like that, but according to wowhead:

Force of Nature is now Level 1 - it seems a base spell for all druids and I presume the specialization will alter the model. It also seems that they'd get this spell off the bat with normal cat form auto attack.

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Can you please use other threads for your suggestions/ideas, there is plenty of them... This one is for discussing current existing beta spells and abilities.

ofc, will do. but not all of that was a wish list, it was actually 3 consecutive posts.

[huth]

only 2 talents that directly affect AoE damage as far as i can see. So either it will be really strong right out of the gate (high multi dot damage or something) or we will be pretty much useless for AoE

In particular, no burst AoE, so for something like Mannoroth Imps, only starfall as direct damage to all of them.

We're a DoT class. Strong burst AoE isn't going to be our forte.

Still, Starfall, Sunfire and Lunar Strike should give a good bit of sustained AoE. Also looks like Starfall is going to have an instant tick on cast(datamining used by WoWhead returns 1 damage for any damaging event, and Starfall does 9 damage over 8 seconds)


Hope they increase the DoT lengths a bit again, though... 8s is rather brutal to keep up with.