Legion Beta - Build 20740 PvP Talents

[Krunk]

Im guessing all the talents arent there as you said. Some of them don't make sense, like the Paladin healing tier

[Super Kami Dende]

I don't even care if these talents seem overpowered or unbalanced. They look like Fun. Something PvP has been sorely missing for a long time in its current state.

[Toppy]

Unless they plan to remove EMFH....

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What about in pve? Some of those pvp talents are pretty great in pve too. Can you use both sets of talents wherever?

PvP talents are PvP only

PvE talents are both

[Nere]

Can you use those talents anywhere or only in bgs and arenas?

[Deleted]

I'm not sure I understand how this is meant to make skill balancing for PvP easier, and separate from PvE balancing.

I mean, you use only the regular talents for PvE, but those are also usable in PvP, so when they do balance/change them for PvE, it will also be affecting PvP.

The PvP talents seem to be very numerous as well. While adding huge variety, which is always great, the whole system seems overwhelming, and it seems to me that balancing PvP will end up being much harder than it is right now.

[Toppy]

I'm not sure I understand how this is meant to make skill balancing for PvP easier, and separate from PvE balancing.

I mean, you use only the regular talents for PvE, but those are also usable in PvP, so when they do balance/change them for PvE, it will also be affecting PvP.

The PvP talents seem to be very numerous as well. While adding huge variety, which is always great, the whole system seems overwhelming, and it seems to me that balancing PvP will end up being much harder than it is right now.

A lot of PvP and PvE talents both are just old glyphs made into talents. This coupled with legion ability pruning is going to cause for an easier time balancing things, and isnt as overwhelming as it appears.

We are essentially losing things to make it look like we're gaining.

[Craaazyyy]

I'm not sure I understand how this is meant to make skill balancing for PvP easier, and separate from PvE balancing.

I mean, you use only the regular talents for PvE, but those are also usable in PvP, so when they do balance/change them for PvE, it will also be affecting PvP.

The PvP talents seem to be very numerous as well. While adding huge variety, which is always great, the whole system seems overwhelming, and it seems to me that balancing PvP will end up being much harder than it is right now.

it'll be easier.. cause if something gets changed in pve talents its hard to balance it in pvp at all.. look right now, turbo won blizzcon, but blizzard buffed warriors and enh shamans..

but with pvp talents even if some of the pve stuff got buffed and became op in pvp they can just nerf some of the pvp talents and make it more balanced.. and vice versa

[Krunk]

Any chance Selfless Healer or Eternal Flame are part of the Paladin pvp talent trees for ret? We seem to be lacking any of the former sustainability or off healing we had

[ComputerNerd]

So when you are in PvP you lose all your other talents and use only These?

No, those are in addition to the rest.
These are just PvP only so that balancing changes made to them do not impact on PvP.
It is easier to balance a PvE talent than a PvP one in my view.

[Deleted]

This is a bigger disappointment than I was expecting, though there's always time to change up these talents.

Resto Shamans have to pick between wind shear and grounding ... as well as earth shield and spirit link ... So resto shaman gameplay is going to be a lot slower since you don't need to worry about actively shearing people, or alternatively actively looking to ground CC. It will be increasingly difficult to differentiate from bad shamans.

Subtlety Rogues May I remind you that subtlety rogues lost:

1. Shadow dance (passive garbage now that if you screw it up, it doesn't even matter)
2. Shadowstep (Shadowstrike is terrible. You can't even kick people anymore on cast because you need to be holding on to your combo points, and it costs a GCD, not to mention the numerous skillful uses the highly flexible shadowstep had)
3. Premeditation (Again, another ability that separated the bad rogues from the good ones. Tying your premed into ambush or cheapshot was stupid, as a lot of the time you'd just waste it as you had 5cp from the ambush in the first place.)
4. Shiv (Again, another skill component removed from the game. Bad rogues never would focus shiv that warrior off of your healer, or in more extreme skill cases, shiv a healer behind a pillar and sap them out of it)
5. Slice and Dice (Again, bad rogues have less things to worry about. Keeping rupture + snd up required quite a bit of experience, I certainly struggled to keep them both up for a long time because my awareness wasn't as good back then)
6. Blind (Really? Blind? You removed blind from the control spec?)
7. Garrote (Well, it's going to be really nice to face mages now, especially with their new 6 second blazing speed. I would've been fine with removing the silence glyph to tone down sub CC, which wasn't even that high compared to resto druid & mage, and it had two conditions and a cost)
8.Preparation (Fuck it, why not. Less things to think about again. How long do I hold on to prep? Do I want to use prep offensively or defensively? Bad rogues rejoice)
9. Hemorrhage (It's back in the form of a talent, but whatever may have been in place of hemorrhage in the talent tree is now gone. You know, shadowstep?)

Also, why is our only slow tied to a 5cp finisher? Anyone not worried at all about how clunky that might be ... I don't know ... maybe versus mages with 6 sec blazing speed that we don't have a garrote vs anymore?

Mages Overall good changes. Probably the only class that turned out good from what I've seen. The primary reason why I say so is because of the talents Deep shatter and Ice form. Shattering is back, boys! Temporal shield is also a nice sight for sore eyes, the skillful ability making a return, and it has some good contenders like the spellsteal glyph that removes all buffs with a cooldown attached to it - good for sniping that NS if you're fast enough.

As for the other classes, I am disappointed to see strangulate being a blood DK thing only, master's call being survival only, monks getting back dematerialize which was absolutely insanely strong vs rogues when we still had garrote, and among other things that most of the pvp talents are passives that read along the lines of "increases dmg, but ability doesn't do aoe anymore" (Howling blast)

I'd say so far they need to bring back all those lovely PvP abilities back through the PvP talent system, not make us choose between iconic abilities like grounding and shear. Make us choose between grounding + 2 entirely new abilities, possibly even self damage reductions to make a real decision: "do I want a guaranteed dmg resistance, or am I a pro and will I ground that strangulate vs TSG and keep my team out of the druid's cyclones?"

[Vergilius]

So prot pallies has a 2 second stun with 3 charges, and a 100 range charge with 2 charges and 3 second cooldown?

[vbnm247]

I think I totally misunderstood.

I thought the class would have their baseline abilities through levelling.

Then they get a pve tree and a seperate pvp tree.

This would then allow blizz to change pve talents without impacting on pvp and vice versa because they are seperate.

So for example when I enter Arena I cant use the pve tree. This then makes balancing easier. But someone has suggested otherwise.

[Vergilius]

I think I totally misunderstood.

I thought the class would have their baseline abilities through levelling.

Then they get a pve tree and a seperate pvp tree.

This would then allow blizz to change pve talents without impacting on pvp and vice versa because they are seperate.

So for example when I enter Arena I cant use the pve tree. This then makes balancing easier. But someone has suggested otherwise.

That's exactly how it works, yes.

[vbnm247]

That's exactly how it works, yes.

I thought so because otherwise it would make seperating them a waste of time.

[luma]

That's exactly how it works, yes.

Except there is NOT how it works. Don't think about PVE talents, it's kinda like "standard talents", so yeah, we'll use both in PVP.

[Deleted]

I thought so because otherwise it would make seperating them a waste of time.

I am 100% sure that you will have both talent trees for PvP, and only the basic talent tree for PvE.

[Deleted]

The fact that you included the garbage that is quaking palm shows me how little you know about what you're talking about.

Humans still get a free medallion. Now they get the medallion + an extra talent. You dont compare those racials to those talents. You compare those racials to "gladiators medallion" AND adaptation or relentless.

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you use both pve and pvp talents

I'm very certain you do not. The separation was added so they can balance it without affecting both pve and pvp at the same time.

So don't expect to get pve talents in pvp, and the other way around.

[Toppy]

I'm very certain you do not. The separation was added so they can balance it without affecting both pve and pvp at the same time.

So don't expect to get pve talents in pvp, and the other way around.

No, theres no real question that you get PvE and PvP talents at the same time. Some classes flat out wont function right without the PvE talents.

You just dont get PvP talents in PvE.

[Deleted]

I'm very certain you do not. The separation was added so they can balance it without affecting both pve and pvp at the same time.

So don't expect to get pve talents in pvp, and the other way around.

Don't crush my dreams like that...

You are telling me PvE talent disappear on PvP? What about World PvP?

This is nonsense!

[Jagd]

This is a bigger disappointment than I was expecting, though there's always time to change up these talents.


I'd say so far they need to bring back all those lovely PvP abilities back through the PvP talent system, not make us choose between iconic abilities like grounding and shear. Make us choose between grounding + 2 entirely new abilities, possibly even self damage reductions to make a real decision: "do I want a guaranteed dmg resistance, or am I a pro and will I ground that strangulate vs TSG and keep my team out of the druid's cyclones?"

Cept cyclone is gone from druid, returned as balance only pvp talent. Already GG that one for you. BUT survival gets a pvp talent to turn ice trap into basically cyclone.