Legion - Artifact weapons and RP

[Wondercrab]

There's a LOT of rules in RP :P

meta-gaming, godmoding, various ways to handle combat fairly, continuity consistency, there's quite a few. Sure they do fluctuate between groups, but it's not something to dismiss outright. The point of the thread is to figure out how Artifacts are appropriate in roleplay... which necessitates assuming there are some conventions around such.

Absolutely, I just meant that there is never any one hard and fast answer to any question of RP etiquette. It'll always differ based on the people you're with.
Mostly there are just sets of "best practices" for general open RP, but that might be verging into discussions of semantics. Anyway, the biggest detriment to the vast majority of roleplay I experience in WoW is people being overly concerned with what they (and others) can and can't do, rather than treating it as something contextual.

[The Madgod]

Absolutely, I just meant that there is never any one hard and fast answer to any question of RP etiquette. It'll always differ based on the people you're with.
Mostly there are just sets of "best practices" for general open RP, but that might be verging into discussions of semantics. Anyway, the biggest detriment to the vast majority of roleplay I experience in WoW is people being overly concerned with what they (and others) can and can't do, rather than treating it as something contextual.

The issue there is that at it's core, roleplay IS about what you can and can't do. Whether that is defined by the culture and group or the character itself. Roleplay is the act of playing a character, yes, but such is defined not only by the personality of the character but by their capabilities. The problems of roleplay usually occur when someone steps out of the realm of what they can do (or in the case of personalities, "should do"). People focus on those things because it is important to set boundaries, lest the imagination go too far and break immersion. In conventional roleplay you can't say you are the son of Illidan because it breaks immersion if that practice is more commonly acceptable. Even if that single character is contextually appropriate, it's still a problem for the health of immersion for the community at large.

[Wondercrab]

The issue there is that at it's core, roleplay IS about what you can and can't do. Whether that is defined by the culture and group or the character itself. Roleplay is the act of playing a character, yes, but such is defined not only by the personality of the character but by their capabilities.

But here I think is where we just verge into the issue of semantics I mentioned. I'd go on to say something like "But is a rule really a rule if it can change from moment to moment based on who else is roleplaying in the room with you?" and then we start discussing how to define a "rule" in the context of roleplay and where and when its appropriate and to what degree and the whole thing probably gets off topic.

Personally I just like to boil it all down to the basic philosophy of: "Do things that are enjoyable for the group as a whole".

[Aramore]

Wait so Maddy, you're saying the Tier 6 I just finished grinding today to go with my Tier 10 set so I can prepare to replace Tirion properly when I get Ashbringer off him isn't acceptable?

[The Madgod]

But here I think is where we just verge into the issue of semantics I mentioned. I'd go on to say something like "But is a rule really a rule if it can change from moment to moment based on who else is roleplaying in the room with you?" and then we start discussing how to define a "rule" in the context of roleplay and where and when its appropriate and to what degree and the whole thing probably gets off topic.

Personally I just like to boil it all down to the basic philosophy of: "Do things that are enjoyable for the group as a whole".

Good because I actually already had this conversation this afternoon haha! Oh and the answer is yes, a rule is a rule. Whether someone or a group observes it doesn't make it not a rule. But yeah which rules people observe is relative to which group they are a part of and getting into the nitty gritty of it is probably beyond the scope of the thread :v

And the thing about that philosophy is... where I come from is a community-wide position, rather than a smaller group. The stuff I'm saying is actually all derived from that philosophy.

Wait so Maddy, you're saying the Tier 6 I just finished grinding today to go with my Tier 10 set so I can prepare to replace Tirion properly when I get Ashbringer off him isn't acceptable?

Yes.

If only because I don't see a Scarlet Crusader ever trying to replace Tirion, rather than spit upon his memory. They are kinda dismissive of the Argents as I recall.

[Caerule]

I'll add my perspective as a RP Guild Leader. These artifacts are a tricky thing, given their power, and given that some are famous icons.

In RP, generally you avoid being -the- hero of Legend, and anything else in the game that there is only one off, or would make you too heavily entwined in the lore of the game. We're part of Azeroth, but the challenge of RP is to be an active part of the existing world. Not to actively shape it. As such, most normally wouldn't carry around a clearly iconic famous weapon.

On the other hand, Artifacts are our main weapon in Legion, with no other weapons made, and Blizzard is doing their very best to make them cool and desirable. So clearly, I can't tell people they can't use these awesome weapons that Blizz has made so desired.

In this case, the middle of the road is best. As long as people do not claim to own the actual artifact of lore, and just have something that just has a resemblance, was forged in the image of it, or is a forgery, that's fine with me. Especially artifacts that don't have an iconic look. Hell, I might have my Goblin blacksmith sell copies of famous heroic weapons, just to cash in on this.

[Stncold]

People are free to RP having the original as much as they like.

Just like I'm free to ignore them and refuse to interact with them ICly and probably OOCly for doing so.

Most look-alikes and skins I'll probably accept if there's a story behind it with some thought. Though I will ICly ream out any paladin with an ashbringer look-alike. Sorry but paladins are supposed to be fucking humble and truthful, and running around with an ashbringer look-alike is neither really humble or truthful.

No paladin RP'er I know worth their salt would ever give their char an ashbringer look-alike and a few of those people I've talked to have expressed utter disgust with the mere thought of doing so. The only exception to that I could ever think of would be that the look-alike is meant to scare the demons into thinking it's the real one. But that's a that's a kind of fucking dishonorably deceptive thing to do and not befitting a paladin.

As for my own characters I'm going to mog the artifacts into a different weapon model first chance I get and never look back. None of them will have the original or anything remotely resembling it.

[Bandit Mike]

It's a foam prop because I'm actually part of a Theater Troupe

[TyrannicalPuppy]

People are free to RP having the original as much as they like.

Just like I'm free to ignore them and refuse to interact with them ICly and probably OOCly for doing so.

Most look-alikes and skins I'll probably accept if there's a story behind it with some thought. Though I will ICly ream out any paladin with an ashbringer look-alike. Sorry but paladins are supposed to be fucking humble and truthful, and running around with an ashbringer look-alike is neither really humble or truthful.

No paladin RP'er I know worth their salt would ever give their char an ashbringer look-alike and a few of those people I've talked to have expressed utter disgust with the mere thought of doing so. The only exception to that I could ever think of would be that the look-alike is meant to scare the demons into thinking it's the real one. But that's a that's a kind of fucking dishonorably deceptive thing to do and not befitting a paladin.

As for my own characters I'm going to mog the artifacts into a different weapon model first chance I get and never look back. None of them will have the original or anything remotely resembling it.

I plan on using the Purified Ashbringer skin once I unlock it, not for the "it's an Ashbringer lookalike" reasoning, but because the character is still a Lordaeron patriot through-and-through, and the Ashbringer variants are the only weapons that have the crest anywhere near them. Obviously for Prot I can match something with the Royal Crest of Lordaeron, but this is just Ret I'm talking here.

[darkdude103]

I still support the idea of a realm recognized wielder

[Deleted]

I still support the idea of a realm recognized wielder

TBH that'd only work on smaller realms, and even then might be messy faction-wise. If it happened (and it might...) on Argent Dawn EU, I can already imagine the ridiculous amounts of indignation and vitriol that'd cause, not to mention the issue of the clique-like system various guilds are running. Essentially, no matter how good a roleplayer you were, you'd have no chance whatsoever of ever getting your hands on an artifact because the really big guilds would immediately push their own 'champions' and win automatically.

[The Madgod]

I mean there's the issue of the Queen of Lordaeron on Moon Guard. Having a realm recognized anything I think just is a breeding ground for wacky, weird stuff.

[Deleted]

I mean there's the issue of the Queen of Lordaeron on Moon Guard. Having a realm recognized anything I think just is a breeding ground for wacky, weird stuff.

TBH most people don't recognise that one IIRC.

[The Madgod]

That just reinforces my point. Because of what you're saying in that it's not fair, what then stops people from saying "What? You're just an imposter trying to get attention!" to the "official" wielder?

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

I am going to be the lore-wise wielder of Ashbringer and whoever disagrees can just not RP with me.

[Deleted]

I've been RPing my nelf as having the CM Glaive ICly so I don't think I'm allowed to oppose people wanting to use flashy artifacts anymore.

In the end, I guess it depends on what your RP friends will accept. The guild I'm in RPs its members as (almost) being the legendary heroes Blizzard wants us to be, so having ridiculously OP artifacts are still pretty legit regardless. The time my character was brawling with one of Yogg-saron's tentacles she did not use an simple sword forged by a local Stormwind blacksmith.

[Koryn123]

Really how it will work is you'll just have to come to a unanimous decision among your group of RPing friends who among you will be the wielder of said weapon. Same with deciding which among your group of friends would RP as the commander of the Horde or Alliance garrison in Frostwall and Shadowmoon Valley. On Twitteroth, at least among the 500 or so people in the community that I knew of, everybody had left the role of commander of the Horde garrison to my friend's character, and I don't think anybody was RPing as the Alliance commander.

There's also interesting potential for the weapons, and I think it'd be very simple to explain several different Ashbringer appearances. If you have so many paladins in your group of friends who all want the Ashbringer, but all agree to use a different appearance, and that nobody will use the original Ashbringer appearance.

They could say something happened to the Ashbringer, RPing some big event that splits it somehow. They could say the holiness was sucked out of it, resulting in the scary corrupted appearance, and the flaming appearance, which could be the holy stuff drawn out. Or, they could draw out the darkness lingering from its time as the corrupted Ashbringer in Classic and TBC, which forms its own new Corrupted Ashbringer, and now that the real one is free of all taint, it becomes that super-Light Titan-ie one.

Or they could RP it in a fight with some elementals and they use lightning, and the paladin does something to use the Ashbringer as a lightning rod to protect his allies like paladins are supposed to do, and that results in the lightning-ie shattered one.

Just my two cents. If people want to, they can think of stories to explain multiple Ashbringers. Though if that explanation involves alternate universes, that'd be stupid.

I think the one that makes the most sense would be some bad guys trying to suck out the holiness from it, but that backfires to create the flaming Ashbringer, and a Blood Knight decides to use the corrupted one.